The American Soccer History Archives

[Knave]

On the off chance that some of you have never browsed this excellent website ...

The American Soccer History Archives (http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/)

Be sure to scroll down to check out some of the essays.

[bungadiri]

Thanks--I'd never seen that site before.

This one is interesting:

http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/culture.html

[b]Cultural Implications of the Soccer Phenomenon in America [b]

Leonard P. Oliver

<LoliverAso@aol.com>

Oliver Associates, Washington, DC

Originally published as a chapter in "Cultural Dimensions of Play, Games and Sport" (Ed. Bernard Mergen, Ph.D. Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics Publishers, Inc., 1986). Reprinted by permission of the author.

"Over-coaching, too much emphasis on systems, predictable and repetitive moves, physical attributes, or conservative play can conflict with individual development and the free flow of soccer, with creativity, and with the need for each player to assert his or her "soccer personality." "Play with impudence," as one of my old coaches used to say. Tim Sheldon (1983), writer for Soccer America, recently pointed out the following:

"I'm convinced that youngsters develop the highest level of skill just by horsing around with a ball by themselves or with friends in the yard or driveway, or sometimes-I shouldn't say it-in the street.

Without adult interference, they can do, literally, anything they want with the ball. They develop a truly personal relationship with the ball. It becomes part of themselves. Later, in organized games, their movements will be second nature."

Overbearing coaches get even worse higher up the ladder. I have watched high school and college coaches maintain meaningless statistics and miss the flow of the game; test how high a player can jump and forget that heading the ball, an unusual weapon unique to soccer, is all timing; or so lock their players into set positions that all interchangeability of positions-a characteristic of a good soccer team-is lost."

It's striking to me how much this point (which the author makes as part of a description of factors "constraining" the growth of soccer in the US) continues to be emphasized here in the States as a key difference between the US and soccer power nations. In fact, I'm beginning to wonder if this emphasis on unstructured play as key to developing US talent is more a product of US culture than it is a reflection of how things work on the ground in the well established soccer playing nations. While I don't doubt for a second that free play in Europe is more common than here and is an important factor in shaping talent, I'd have to guess that the highly structured youth development systems are more important shapers of talent in the dominant countries than "soccer as a component of youth culture."

My (admittedly relatively uninformed) impression is that European countries in particular are far more thorough about identifying and formally developing their young soccer talent than the US is at developing the talent feeding its own dominant sports (football, basketball, baseball). The growing value of European players in the NBA is a case in point, because it seems like same system is being applied to young basketball players there.

So, anyway, I've got a question. What does soccer development look like in Brazil? Is it as structured as Europe, or is Brazilian success fed largely from wild pools of happy, self-motivated, home grown talent?

[ussoccer1001]

Thanks for the link. Great site.

[Matt in the Hat]

This is also another great one if you want a thurough history of american soccer:
An Overview of American Soccer History
By Dave Litterer spectrum@sover.net


http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/overview.html

[KLECKO73]

bungadiri- I glanced through a book about the Brazilian way of developing youngsters. The author kind of said that Brazilian kids are encouraged to fool around with the ball on their own and play different types of games that sharpens ball control skills. He said kids learn better skills when they have fun because they want to play those games.

[pething101]

Thanks for the links, Knave et al. I have seen a couple of those but always forgot to bookmark them. Will do so now.

[Richie]

"I'm convinced that youngsters develop the highest level of skill just by horsing around with a ball by themselves or with friends in the yard or driveway, or sometimes-I shouldn't say it-in the street."

Not entirely true. Depends what the friends know, and if the friends are older then they are.

That is coaching in street soccer. The older players are teaching (coaching) the younger ones by player demenostration. The younger ones learn things from the older ones. Then they practice what they learn on their own or with other friends.

"Without adult interference"

Depends if you consider older players as adults.

"Later, in organized games, their movements will be second nature."

If the coach gives them the freedom to try things. The truth is some kids try things that some coaches never even seen done before. When you try things you have success and you have failures.

The coach has to be smart enough to know you learn by mistakes and by sucess, and he has to give you that try things freedom. The coach is free to make a coaching point to improve their game. Sometimes a small coaching point can make a player look good instead of sloppy.

"Overbearing coaches get even worse higher up the ladder. I have watched high school and college coaches maintain meaningless statistics and miss the flow of the game"

Not all statistics are meanless. They can give a coach an impression of the game that is useful.

"test how high a player can jump."

Actually it's protecting your space to play that makes you win headers or not. That and balls because sometimes you have to stick your head in others space to get the ball. You can not always get your forehead on the ball to do that. Sometimes you might get your ear on the ball to do that.

"heading the ball, an unusual weapon unique to soccer"

That parents are lead to believe will cause brain damage to their child. So if they can learn to be great in the air at all. They learn very late or they don't learn to be great at all. Like most women are very ordinary in the air. Maybe, they can't get rid of that in bread fear and warning about heading the ball when they are young.


"so lock their players into set positions that all interchangeability of positions-a characteristic of a good soccer team-is lost."

That's right then you read how all Ajaxs youth teams are locked into each side of the field they play in as youth players.

That is also the main reason why players disappear during games. That comes right after they learn how to reverse their field and play away from pressure. Which if the player in pressure does not move the ball will also be played away from him.

Donovan and Convey would disappear when they played the flank. Most kids who played under that Under 17 national coach disappear on the flanks.

He is in a possition to develope our players?

Some people actually think he did a nice job in the U 17 world championship. So they will not even look to improve the coaching situation when they bring in the new crop of Undwer 17s.

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by KLECKO73
bungadiri- I glanced through a book about the Brazilian way of developing youngsters. The author kind of said that Brazilian kids are encouraged to fool around with the ball on their own and play different types of games that sharpens ball control skills. He said kids learn better skills when they have fun because they want to play those games.
Thanks--that's interesting. Does the book say how extensive their formal youth system is (or are you saying that the book says just the opposite: that encouraging kids to fool around with the ballon their own IS their youth development system)?

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by Richie
That's right then you read how all Ajaxs youth teams are locked into each side of the field they play in as youth players.

That is also the main reason why players disappear during games. That comes right after they learn how to reverse their field and play away from pressure. Which if the player in pressure does not move the ball will also be played away from him.

Donovan and Convey would disappear when they played the flank. Most kids who played under that Under 17 national coach disappear on the flanks.

Richie I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that young players who don't know how to play away from pressure tend to disappear in games? Or are you saying that the American youth system over emphasizes this (playing away from pressure) and that causes players to disappear in games?

I think it's the first one, but I'm not sure and wish you would explain it more in any case.

[Richie]

"Richie I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that young players who don't know how to play away from pressure tend to disappear in games?"

No, what I am saying is if the pressure is moving to let's say Donovan who is in the flank space. Then team mates seeing that will play away from the pressure and reverse their field. So play a way from pressure you are also playing away from a Donovan because he is in the space that the pressure was moving to. So if that happens a lot Donovan or anyone who plays like that will disappear during the game because they are not going to touch the ball much. That happens to Convey as well.

So a flank player especially a dangerous player with the ball has to see pressure and leave that pressure area and be in a position to get a ball as they play away from the pressure.
-------------------------------
"Or are you saying that the American youth system over emphasizes this (playing away from pressure) and that causes players to disappear in games?"

Not saying that either. I am saying a guy like our Under 17 National coach does not teach a player who is in a space being pressured how to see the pressure comming towards him. Then he has to teach that player to leave that pressured area and move away from that pressure so he can receive a ball when it is played away from the pressure. That is one of the ways a dangerous players gets a lot of touches and does not disappear from the game for long periods of time.

That is what I mean.

Richie

[bungadiri]

Originally posted by Richie
I am saying a guy like our Under 17 National coach does not teach a player who is in a space being pressured how to see the pressure comming towards him. Then he has to teach that player to leave that pressured area and move away from that pressure so he can receive a ball when it is played away from the pressure. That is one of the ways a dangerous players gets a lot of touches and does not disappear from the game for long periods of time.

That is what I mean.

Richie
Thanks, I think I understand now. So in other words the US Youth system teaches kids to hold to their space too much, even when the game is no longer coming to them? Plus, I guess, we need to continue to develop the technical skill that allows players to make plays despite pressure.

[Richie]

Originally posted by bungadiri
Thanks, I think I understand now. So in other words the US Youth system teaches kids to hold to their space too much, even when the game is no longer coming to them?"

Now we are cooking. "Too much" it is more like way to long so they are in killed space.

"Plus, I guess, we need to continue to develop the technical skill that allows players to make plays despite pressure."

Si, our backs under pressure are terrible.

Our under 17 National team does not even know how to win the ball when they tackle. So they give the ball right back to the opponents back support.

That should not always happen.