Hand Ball while standing in a wall?

[dncm]

I searched the forum but didn't see it specifically - if needed, mods please merge.

What is the Law in regards to players in a wall defending a free kick when:

1. For Males: covering the jewels and the ball strikes the hand.

2. For Females: that cross their hands/arm across their chest and the ball hits their hand/arm.

Thanks.

[Ref Flunkie]

No "law" per se, but in general, as long as you keep it there and don't "play" the ball with the arms after it hits them, then you are good.

[Tarheel Ref]

Ref Flunkie has said it well...another general theory (again not written into the LOTG but a good standard nonetheless) is as follows:

Hand/arm plays ball = handball
Ball plays or strikes hand/arm = play on

[refmike]

Tarheel Ref's quote is OK for a starting point and works for players in a wall protecting themselves but if the hand/arm is not in a natural position it does not apply. Consider a wall with everybody holding their arms straight to make the wall higher. If the ball now strikes a stationary hand, it is a handling offense, despite the "ball to hand" concept.

[Tarheel Ref]

Tarheel Ref's quote is OK for a starting point and works for players in a wall protecting themselves but if the hand/arm is not in a natural position it does not apply. Consider a wall with everybody holding their arms straight to make the wall higher. If the ball now strikes a stationary hand, it is a handling offense, despite the "ball to hand" concept.

True and a scenario I didn't really picture nor have I ever seen, but...I happily stand corrected.

[constructor]

Remember Law 18 when making a handling determination in a wall and the hand2ball, ball2hand thing is a good starting point, but by no means the only criteria.

If I see the player protecting "sensitive" parts, but doesn't move the arm/hand, play on. If that arm/hand moves a bit to redirect the rebound, DFK. Any way you cut this, somebody will want a DFK when they see the ball rebound off an arm and will be very unhappy when you let play continue.

[Ref Flunkie]

Remember Law 18 when making a handling determination in a wall and the hand2ball, ball2hand thing is a good starting point, but by no means the only criteria.

If I see the player protecting "sensitive" parts, but doesn't move the arm/hand, play on. If that arm/hand moves a bit to redirect the rebound, DFK. Any way you cut this, somebody will want a DFK when they see the ball rebound off an arm and will be very unhappy when you let play continue.

Lets also remember, "sensitive" parts can include the face depending on the skill/age level.

[nsa]

What is the Law in regards to players in a wall defending a free kick when:

1. For Males: covering the jewels and the ball strikes the hand.

2. For Females: that cross their hands/arm across their chest and the ball hits their hand/arm.

Thanks.

Law 18. Common Sense. ;)

[DWickham]

The foul under law 12 is "deliberate handling" of the ball. Even moving the arm instinctively when faced by a fast approaching ball to protect sensitive areas is recognized as "not deliberate." See USSF Advice To Referees, section 12.9 (high school interpretation differs.)

The ball to hand vs hand to ball approach works only to a point. A defender in a wall can protect a larger area of the goal by placing an arm in an unnatural playing position and then leaving the arm there for the ball to hit it. If the defender has enough time to withdraw the arm to avoid contact, but chooses not to do so to block the ball, this may be judged as deliberate handling the ball even though ball hit arm.

[nonya]

Ok, weird question then.

Can a player place his hands in front of his teammate's private's during the taking of a free kick to protect his buddy? Not that I have ever seen it, but just wondering if it has ever happened.

[nsa]

Ok, weird question then.

Can a player place his hands in front of his teammate's private's during the taking of a free kick to protect his buddy? Not that I have ever seen it, but just wondering if it has ever happened.

Perhaps in rules modified for IGLFA tournaments.

[DWickham]

NSA's answer is clever (if the question wasn't serious).

The referee has to decide whether the action was instinctive (the better term is probably reflexive) or the result of deliberation. If the player deliberately handles the ball, it is a foul even if the player's motives were "good" rather than tactical (e.g., player caught the ball because an opponent was injured).

[gmsubzero]

No matter what situation I always use this. In my opinion (In the opinion of the referee) does the player intentional move his arm into a position to play the ball or did he try to avoid the contact? With the arms up in the wall, in my opinion they're intentionally putting there arms up in hopes of stopping the ball.

Also it probably doesn't help things and it doesn't happen very often but does the player intentionally try and play the ball into the players arm? Like for example. A wall is set up just inside the penalty area. The referee signals for the play to commence. A player on the end of the wall is using his arm to try and get one of his players to come over and join the wall. While this is happening the player taking the kick notices this and tries and succeeds in nailing the arm with the ball. The players arm was in an unnatural position in terms of play but he didn't intentionally play the ball? What would you call?

[njref]

This is not a situation where the arm/hand is out as a possible distraction or blocker, it sounds like a "natural" movement in the context of the circumstances at hand.

So,

if he sees the ball coming and could have but does not move his arm = handling.

If he does not see the ball or could not move his arm in time = no handling.

With due regard for the level of play, etc.

[macheath]

The Advice is pretty clear on this:

12.9 DELIBERATE HANDLING...Moving hands or arms instinctively to protect the body when suddenly faced with a fast approaching ball does not constitute deliberate contact unless there is subsequent action to direct the ball once contact is made. Likewise, placing hands or arms to protect the body at a free kick or similar restart is not likely to produce an infringement unless there is subsequent action to direct or control the ball. (emphasis added)

Always good to have the Advice handy; it actually covers a lot of situations that people wonder about.

[refmike]

Let's not forget the flip side of the advice. Placing the hands over a body part and then running into the ball IS handling, even if the hand is not moved. My description for this is that you can protect yourself or attack the ball but not both at once.

[IASocFan]

Let's not forget the flip side of the advice. Placing the hands over a body part and then running into the ball IS handling, even if the hand is not moved. My description for this is that you can protect yourself or attack the ball but not both at once.

DISAGREE! Your hands have to be somewhere! I can't see running towards an attacker with your hands behind your back. I remember a ball into my nuts when applying pressure to attacker; I wished I had been protecting myself that day.

[AspireNatlRef]

I see three different issues here:

1) The hand hit the ball and it was a foul yet deemed trivial or trifiling. therefore no advantage/play on. It was a foul, just not one I was going to call.

2) The ball hit the hand and it was no foul. Again no advantage/play on.

3)The hand the ball and it was a foul. Advantage/play on or call the foul.


I find that many times the wall issue fits into number 1, the hand wasn't in a natural playing position, the hand didn't REALLY play the ball, so the offense was trifiling.


ANR

[GKbenji]

Let's not forget the flip side of the advice. Placing the hands over a body part and then running into the ball IS handling, even if the hand is not moved. My description for this is that you can protect yourself or attack the ball but not both at once.

Where you tend to see this type of thing is in lower-level girls' matches (and sometimes low-level older novice womens') where they prepare to receive a high ball by "protecting" their chest with their arms, then proceed to trap said ball with their arms tight against the body.

Unfortunately, I all too often see refs let this go. Sorry, it's handling. Somebody just needs to teach the poor players how to do a proper chest trap--it can be done by females too!

[Wreave]

Unfortunately, I all too often see refs let this go. Sorry, it's handling. Somebody just needs to teach the poor players how to do a proper chest trap--it can be done by females too!

Agreed. Soccer involves playing the ball with all parts of the body. The use of the hands/arms is not gender-specific.

Protecting oneself a) in the wall b) reflexively/defensively is acceptable. Using the arms otherwise, e.g. for a chest trap when the protective action is not reflexive/defensive, but rather deliberate/proactive, is handling.