Most underated players

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Xavi not only 'does it better' but he does it for both club and country. Iniesta does not.

[phil80]

You have already proven you do not watch the players mentioned, so it surprises no one that you are incorrect as usual.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

You have made yet another incorrect claim in regard to the football I watch. You would be better served spending the time to watch more of the player in question and improve your rather weak 'justification' than wasting our collective time by sniping towards me. Either stick to the subject matter or do not post in future.

[phil80]

The funny thing is practically everyone has disagreed with you and your ridiculous claims in countless threads regarding the topic. How does it feel to have mobilized so many (regardless of club affiliation) against your wild assertions that Iniesta is not creative and half of Barca's squad is overrated? It's a shame that you drive posters to need to constantly pick you apart for your man utd bias and ignorance on the subject being discussed.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Yet another incorrect claim. Very few have been discussing Iniesta's perceived creativity. I will ignore the rest of your incorrect and irrelevant sniping. Stick to the topic or do not post. The topic, as you have clearly forgotten, is whether Iniesta is creative or not.

[phil80]

Yet another incorrect claim. Very few

You made me have to do this to you....read below and see, not one person agreed with you that Iniesta is not creative, not one! and your patheticaly feeble attempt to change the original topic from claiming 'not creative to not a creative genious' fooled no one. I repeat, no one agreed with you that he is not creative. And also note i could have added more but i decided to spare you more humiliation and i got bored with your desperation.



"when I think of creative players, the likes of Iniesta"
"I find it remarkable that you don't think Iniesta is creative"
"I totally disagree with your assessment of Iniesta. I think he's very creative" -schafer

"I don't see how you can say Iniesta isn't creative" -johno

"iniesta and xavi... are the 2 best creative mids in the world" Cromagnum

"claims as Iniesta is not creative and such which is complete opposite of what every other soccer expert thinks, it really makes you look .... er... won't say the word."- LeoMessi

"I can't fathom how someone could say that Iniesta is not very creative. I'm taking no stance on any other debate in this thread in what someone else would say, but the man oozes creativity." -nyfan

"lol some of the posts here really are hilarious..when u have people saying that iniesta is not a creative mid it just shows you how clueless some people are lol' cromagnum

"I personally rate Iniesta and it seems that many others do as well. If you dont rate him, well, thats your opinion. Unlike you, Im not trying to change everyone's opinions into the Teso-run-BigSoccer dictatorship that you want it to be." Grinners89

nappolisupporter after you claimed ronaldo more creative "It's no use trying to convince. Iniesta will be better than Ronaldo only after the two players switch clubs."...."Well, he named half the Barca squad in the "Overrated XI" thread which pretty much renders his opinion on Iniesta irrelvant."

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I merely added a superlative to creativity. It is something you regularly do when discussing your favourite players and Iniesta in particular. I do like how you chose to cherry pick some quotes in an attempt to prove your point. I will not dismiss them one by one because I have neither the time nor the inclination. It is predominantly you arguing over whether Iniesta is underrated or not and claiming he is creative, with the occasional contribution, and I use that word in the loosest possible sense, from your lap dog Grinners89. As for others I noticed how you did not include any quotes from people who did not consider Iniesta to be overrated or overly creative but we both know why you did it. It is also interesting to note that of the people who did consider him to be creative several are less than objective Barcelona fans and the rest have made a few baseless remarks and then completely disappeared from the discussion. I personally think a lot of people are confused as to what a creative player is. You might be posting shite but at least you are engaging with the topic. I hope others join us.

[barroldinho]

Xavi not only 'does it better' but he does it for both club and country. Iniesta does not.

In defence of Teso, Xavi's got about 10 assists and a ton of goals this season. Ditto Messi. I think both are better.

Having said that, Iniesta has got his share of assists this season. He doesn't score very often, but that's not his job. He really is a creative midfielder - that's his role. Now how good a creative midfielder is another story. I'd say he's a very good one. Excellent on the ball, drags other players out of position with his dribbling. Decent passer.

Not as good as Xavi, I'd agree. Xavi doesn't go in for mazy runs as much, but still has good ball control. Just uses it more to get himself out of tight marking situations, before making a pass. He's a better passer and much more prolific goalscorer from what I've seen of him. Better vision too.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

The thing is I do not see much creativity from Iniesta. What I see is his use of dribbling, ball retention, ability on the ball, intelligence and one/two touch passing. What I do not see is the same creativity (or even passing) as you would find from other central midfielders like Xavi, Xabi Alonso, Fabregas or de la Peña to stick with Spanish examples. He uses the ball well, of course, but more often than not it is playing the simple ball and utilising the attacking movement ahead of him. There is next to no creative burden placed on him in either the Barcelona or Spanish system. Xavi is the main creative force and Iniesta is used to simply retain possession, act as an outlet or get the ball to the attack for them to create. He is a good complementary player but I would describe him as the oil that helps to keep things running as opposed to a key component. There are only two ways I can see someone claiming Iniesta to be creative and that is by misconstruing passing for creativity (when they are completely separate facets of the game) or by having such a loose definition of creativity that it enables countless non-creative (or with very little) players to be included under the term.

[barroldinho]

Hmm....for me though, being a 'creative' player is more than making that final ball to set up a team-mate. It's about using your natural flair and creativity on the ball to make space for others. I'd definitely agree with you that Xavi is more of a creative force based on your description. I'd argue against Xabi Alonso in that case though. He's got good general distribution and an accurate shot on him, but I don't see him setting up that many chances. I see him more as of a Paul Scholes: Intelligent player, good at link-up play, tenacious, but not spectacular in terms of flair and isn't necessarily the guy putting the killer ball into the box.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

What other players would you describe as being creative and, more importantly, why?

[barroldinho]

When I think 'creative', I think of players with vision and imagination. They can take one situation and mould it into another. In the modern era I'd say Kaka, Van der Vaart, Riquelme, Arshavin, Ronaldo. In the recent past, Zidane, Ronaldinho, Figo, Cantona, Le Tissier. All of these players have a flair for seeing the bigger picture, making a move nobody else thought of and opening up the game for their team-mates.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Do you honestly want to put Iniesta in that same group of players?

[barroldinho]

In terms of talent, no. In terms of player 'type', I'd say yes. Similarly, I'd put for example, Stewart Downing in the same category as Ryan Giggs or Robbie Keane in the same category as Alessandro Del Piero. Same type of player (pacey left winger & skilful forward) but the latter in both cases is more gifted than the former.

[BocaFan]

It is also interesting to note that of the people who did consider him to be creative .... made a few baseless remarks and then completely disappeared from the discussion.

I "disappeared" because other people with similar views were already making their points clear and didn't need support. Iniesta is obviously a creative player. Not as much as Xavi or Messi (or Ronaldinho), but there's no strict limit on the # of creative midfielders a team can have. So I don't know why you're going on about burden sharing, etc.

[phil80]

I do like how you chose to cherry pick some quotes

This is the most pathetic attempt to try to change the subject. You claimed 'very few' people disagreed with you about Iniesta not being creative and when I posted a list proving how senseless that statement was, you say i am cherry picking? You are fooling no one. And I could have included more quotes of people opposing your claim, but I decided you were humiliated enough. And til now, absolutely no one agreed with your claim Iniesta is not creative, not one poster. Now it looks like you have pathetically tried to change the subject to who claimed he was overrated. :rolleyes:

[phil80]

Back to the topic...
David Silva and Lass Diara still deserve mentions, and though I have always claimed Fletcher as underrated, he showed he can perform well in the big matches of Euro (minus the red card)

[KumarsS]

I feel that Diarra just recently became a notable player for his performances, and given a full season he'll get the credit that's due to him. His reputation is still influenced by his promising but unsuccessful stints at Chelsea and Arsenal, however key he was for Portsmouth during the short time he was there.

[revelationx]

I want your opinion on this you guys;
who do you think is a better player? gerrard or iniesta?

Gerrard is much better currently. However he is a few years older than Iniesta and at his peak now. Iniesta is not at his peak yet and I expect him to improve over the next few years.

Iniesta has been underrated. This is largely due to the fact that at Barca he has been overshadowed by more high-profile players - Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Henry and Messi who all get more press attention. This is fair enough as they are all 'cracks' and Iniesta has had to make his name while these 'cracks' score or make the goals. Xavi and Cesc also get more attention at International level. At another club, Iniesta would be noticed as a more pivotal player. An example is Arteta at Everton. If you swapped the two then Iniesta would be getting more attention as the best player at Everton.

Messi get's a lot of the attention from the defenders which allows Iniesta space to cause some damage elsewhere.

[phil80]

I feel that Diarra just recently became a notable player for his performances, and given a full season he'll get the credit that's due to him. His reputation is still influenced by his promising but unsuccessful stints at Chelsea and Arsenal, however key he was for Portsmouth during the short time he was there.
He actually showed his abilities with Chelsea, as I even remember a few games the crowd chanting his name, but mourinho felt mikel fitted into their system better. At Arsenal, he was not as impressive and wasn't given enough opportunities. IMO he was always underrated and now that he has been given a string of games under a high profile team, people are starting to notice his influence. He has definitely improved Madrid's midfield of late.