Rugby and Soccer: A tale of two sports in Canada

[DoyleG]

Being at the Canada/Uruguay rugby match yesterday, I can tell of the strides rugby has made in comparison to soccer.

- Good fan support: to match what there is for Rugby attendance,there would have to a crowd 4x larger at NT matches. The latter doesn't seem to happen.

- Television: Rugby matches with the CNRT is widespread and is live! When was the last time we saw that with Men's soccer?

-Legaue: The RCSL isn't much, but it is a form of a national league. That is non-existant in Canadian soccer.

What is wrong with this picture.

[Gordon]

Originally posted by DoyleG
Being at the Canada/Uruguay rugby match yesterday, I can tell of the strides rugby has made in comparison to soccer.

- Good fan support: to match what there is for Rugby attendance,there would have to a crowd 4x larger at NT matches. The latter doesn't seem to happen.

- Television: Rugby matches with the CNRT is widespread and is live! When was the last time we saw that with Men's soccer?

-Legaue: The RCSL isn't much, but it is a form of a national league. That is non-existant in Canadian soccer.

What is wrong with this picture.

Some interesting points but I think a bit overstated. Fan support was reasonable but given a new venue, I wonder how many were out due to curiousity?

Television, again similar to soccer. This was a World Cup Qualifying match in Canada, so of course it is gonna get covered, but...and this is the point, how many Rugby games, outside of WCQ and the Cup itself, does Canada play and how often to they get televised. Few played and fewer covered. I think that the televised element is no better than soccer, and probably worse over a longer haul.

League, again, how is this different from the various regional soccer leagues that exist in Canada. Not a whole lot I think.

Finally, a mere year ago, Rugby was in a shambles, with the players on strike and high profile "friendlies" against the top team in the World canceled. It ain't never got that bad in Canadian soccer.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Gordon
Some interesting points but I think a bit overstated. Fan support was reasonable but given a new venue, I wonder how many were out due to curiousity?

Rugby has always been big in Alberta. It's taken a whilr to get an international match out here. If they wanted to test a venue, they would have chosen a place where it isn't popular.

Originally posted by Gordon
Television, again similar to soccer. This was a World Cup Qualifying match in Canada, so of course it is gonna get covered, but...and this is the point, how many Rugby games, outside of WCQ and the Cup itself, does Canada play and how often to they get televised. Few played and fewer covered. I think that the televised element is no better than soccer, and probably worse over a longer haul.?

Rugby Canada gets a good number of their games covered. Recent English and Scottish tours got full coverage. Upcoming matches will get televised as well. All the matches will be televised live.

Originally posted by Gordon
League, again, how is this different from the various regional soccer leagues that exist in Canada. Not a whole lot I think.

How often do soccer teams in this country get to play teams from other Provinces. The senior leagues in the country are hold to within thier home province.

Originally posted by Gordon
Finally, a mere year ago, Rugby was in a shambles, with the players on strike and high profile "friendlies" against the top team in the World canceled. It ain't never got that bad in Canadian soccer.

Does it look like it affected them? They recently beat Scotland, a top-5 team. What about the gap between France 98 qualification? It was nearly 2 years and only one match to show for it. We even pulled out of the 1998 Gold Cup because we didn't want to be humiliated.

[CanuckFan]

Were there 25,000 out to see this match, as there were for the Cdn men's team vs T&T. You seem to imply there were 4 x as many fans out to watch Rugby. That's BS.
Soccer is the World's game. Rugby is a colonial past time. We left the mothership some time ago.

[Impact supporter]

Originally posted by DoyleG

-Legaue: The RCSL isn't much, but it is a form of a national league. That is non-existant in Canadian soccer.

What is wrong with this picture.

You are right the RCSL is not much at this point as they only play 6 games. Actually the teams are provincial and regional select teams. I was talking to Sean McCaffrey manager of the Montreal Menace and he said the RCSL will likely go towards a regional format and national championships because for a team like Montreal to travel to Newfoundland is VERY EXPENSIVE. This new format would mean for example that the Montreal team would play home and away against Ottawa, Toronto and the Academy (Central Division-Ontario,Quebec)BUT also play 3 games against teams from outside the conference.(Bringing the total to 9 games)

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by CanuckFan
Were there 25,000 out to see this match, as there were for the Cdn men's team vs T&T. You seem to imply there were 4 x as many fans out to watch Rugby. That's BS.
Soccer is the World's game. Rugby is a colonial past time. We left the mothership some time ago.

Learn to read

Given the fact that rugby is only played by a fraction of people compared to soccer, the overall attendance is better. In a country in which soccer is the top sport, attendances should be better. But it has become obvious that isn't happening is it?

From what you said about Rugby, it sounds like your an American.

[CanuckFan]

No I'm not American. You're half right, as expected.
I'm North American and proud of it.
I do know how to read although it is always an arduous task getting through the pap you post.

[Gordon]

Originally posted by DoyleG


From what you said about Rugby, it sounds like your an American.

I may not have understood this right Doyle, but do you not know who CanuckFan is?

I think that you are bit too down on Canadian soccer my friend. Cirsumstances surrounding a national league are indeed depressing but all i snot wrong with the game. There are a grand total of 3 Rugby clubs in Sasaktoon, for example, while there are dozens of soccer clubs. Canada, in Edmonton, can draw more than 12,000 fans (assuming 3,000 at the Rugby match) for a World Cup Qualifier. So while things are pretty miserable re: a national league and I know that this is something you are very keen on, but I think you are overstating the rugby element.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Gordon
I think that you are bit too down on Canadian soccer my friend. Cirsumstances surrounding a national league are indeed depressing but all i snot wrong with the game. There are a grand total of 3 Rugby clubs in Sasaktoon, for example, while there are dozens of soccer clubs. Canada, in Edmonton, can draw more than 12,000 fans (assuming 3,000 at the Rugby match) for a World Cup Qualifier. So while things are pretty miserable re: a national league and I know that this is something you are very keen on, but I think you are overstating the rugby element.

I've been to WCQ in Edmonton and they haven't been drawn as good as you state they are. The 98 WCQ, 96 Olympic Torunament, and the last Canada Cup did reach that mark in most matches. It only works here if you can bring in a top-notch side.

There may be more soccer than rugby clubs, but Canada has had much better sucess in the rugby world.

[JTPenney]

Originally posted by Impact supporter


I was talking to Sean McCaffrey manager of the Montreal Menace and he said the RCSL will likely go towards a regional format and national championships because for a team like Montreal to travel to Newfoundland is VERY EXPENSIVE. This new format would mean for example that the Montreal team would play home and away against Ottawa, Toronto and the Academy (Central Division-Ontario,Quebec)BUT also play 3 games against teams from outside the conference.(Bringing the total to 9 games)

I'm sorry but Newfoundland has to fly to EVERY AWAY GAME. Mr. McCaffery should stop his crying. This year they had to travel to Ottawa, St. John's and Kingston. To me that is a sweet schedule.

The Rock had to start the season with 2 games in four days on the road in Kingston and Ottawa, then again later on in Halifax and Fredericton in another four days. The Rock spent a minimum of 8 days on the road if they travelled on game days, more likely 10 or 12 days. Montreal could have travelled home after the games in Kingston and Ottawa. The "trip that never happened" to St. John's would have ment one night in a hotel and one return flight. The Montreal team really showed what they are made of this year....

What is next, a BC division with Vancouver, Fraser Valley and Victoria, an AB division with Calgary and Edmonton, a Prarie division with Saskatchewan and Manitoba that didn't play in 2002? Come on... this travel arguement is getting really old.

[pmannion]

There were 3000 people at the national final in St. John's last month (myself included), and Rugby is quickly becoming the 3rd most popular sport among young people here. (behind Ice Hockey and Basketball). Soccer is left to fight it out for 4th with baseball.
However, although I have no way to prove this, the newspaper report from the soccer match between Marystown and St. Lawrence there were 5000 fans in attendence. (this would seem a little high to me, as I don't think the combined population of the two towns is 5000.) But there must have been a big crowd there all the same. Also, my father tells me of huge crowds down there (3-4000) for friendly matches between St. Lawrence/Marystown and St. Pierre. And that's a while ago. They don't get those kind of crowds for any kind of sporting event here, except the odd St. John's Maple Leafs game...

Anyway, here's a link to the St. Lawrence webpage:
http://www.laurentianshomepage.com/

[pmannion]

And I believe, the day Canada qualified for the World Cup in '85, there were 4000 people at the match in St. John's. There were real big crowds for the Under 17 World Cup matches that were played here many years ago... (Emanuel Petit was in the French squad, or so I'm told)

[Krammerhead]

Originally posted by CanuckFan
Were there 25,000 out to see this match, as there were for the Cdn men's team vs T&T. You seem to imply there were 4 x as many fans out to watch Rugby. That's BS.
Soccer is the World's game. Rugby is a colonial past time. We left the mothership some time ago.

Seems to me that Doyle was lamenting the fact that Rugby gets more press or whatever than soccer.

I don't know if it's true or not but no need to rag on him about this, there are plenty of other good reasons on other threads though! :)

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Krammerhead


Seems to me that Doyle was lamenting the fact that Rugby gets more press or whatever than soccer.

I don't know if it's true or not but no need to rag on him about this, there are plenty of other good reasons on other threads though! :)

U would be saying the same things, espcially since Canadian rugby is outdrawing the Caps in attendance.

[Krammerhead]

Considering that you are comparing what the rugby national team is drawing against what a club side draws in soccer that doesn't really bother me. There was 8000 people at Swangard stadium to watch England play Canada in rugby earlier this year (stadium capacity is 7100 so they must have squeezed a lot of extra bodies to that). There has been 5000-6500 (avg att: 5227) people a game for the womens U19 tournament games at Swangard. In those cases many of the people show up for the event, not the sport, or show up to show support for a Country they used to live in. Doesn't have any real relevence to the popularity of the sport.

For instance the Brazil-Australia womens u-19 match last Saturday drew 6503. The very next night Vancouver Whitecaps had a big match against the Montreal Impact and drew a lousy 3989. It doesn't mean if a u-19 womens soccer league were to start up right away that they would outdraw the Whitecaps, just means that a lot of the people who attended were going for the event, they aren't real soccer supporters.

[Blizzard]

The low 'Caps attendance for that match also may indicate that having two big matches back to back is a strain on the pocketbooks of the average soccer fan.

For many, it was probably "one or the other".

db

[Krammerhead]

What? A strain on the pocket book? The womens game was $8 for an adult ticket and an adult ticket to the Whitecaps start at $14. Not exactly a big dent on the pocketbook.

Thats $22 to attend both games, far below the average ticket price for other sports.

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Krammerhead
What? A strain on the pocket book? The womens game was $8 for an adult ticket and an adult ticket to the Whitecaps start at $14. Not exactly a big dent on the pocketbook.

Thats $22 to attend both games, far below the average ticket price for other sports.

Tickets for the rugby match in Edmonton as $20 for an adult, $15 for youth, and $5 for a child. All tickets were general admission.

[Blizzard]

It can't have helped though. Soccer is always cheaper than the other sports and we still can't fill our damned parks.

db

[DoyleG]

Originally posted by Blizzard
It can't have helped though. Soccer is always cheaper than the other sports and we still can't fill our damned parks.

db

Not always...

I can get a ticket for Triple A baseball and won't cost me more than $11.