Eclipse DOC to become Director US Club id2

[Stinky Shinguards]

What are your thoughts about the recent appointment of Rory Dames to become Girls Director of US Club id2? Do you believe this will enhance US Club?, US youth national team selection?, the id2 program?, or just the Eclipse?
http://www.eclipseselect.org/images/Dames%20Named%20id2%20Girls%20Director.pdf

[JohnR]

What are your thoughts about the recent appointment of Rory Dames to become Girls Director of US Club id2?

Wow. The boys id2 program is utterly inconsequential, one of those things that if they cancelled it tomorrow nobody would notice. They just pick guys already identified by ODP and then brag that they discovered those players if they later make a national team. And they dole out so many favors to friends & family that even ODP would blush.

Does anybody care about the id2 girls program? To answer my rhetorical question, apparently so ... why else would Rory take the job?

[Bird1812]

Wow. The boys id2 program is utterly inconsequential, one of those things that if they cancelled it tomorrow nobody would notice. They just pick guys already identified by ODP and then brag that they discovered those players if they later make a national team. And they dole out so many favors to friends & family that even ODP would blush.

Does anybody care about the id2 girls program? To answer my rhetorical question, apparently so ... why else would Rory take the job?

Sometimes, John, you can be very cruel.


:D

[JohnR]

Sometimes, John, you can be very cruel.

I never thought that I would pine for ODP, but id2 managed the task.

[RegionIIFutbolr]

Contrary to what some think of the girls side, the Girls sides of ODP and ID2 do work. I know of alot of girls that do ID2. And in someways, its cheaper than ODP. ID2 is much bigger out east than here in the midwest. What I have found out that if your child enters the Regional level of ODP, then ID2 wont bother with you, which I think is correct. Give more players a chance to show.

Bird, SoccerPhantom, you guys keep up the good work!!

If I remember correctly, there are a few Magic girls that made a Natl ID2 team. A girl going to Northwestern did for sure.

[JohnR]

What I have found out that if your child enters the Regional level of ODP, then ID2 wont bother with you, which I think is correct.

Hmmm, at my son's year, the id2 guys took a national pool '93 kid, then later put his name on the website as one of their discoveries. It was right there, on U.S. Club, proof of their program. That was funny. So was their claim of finding Charles Renken, after he previously had been placed on the '91 Region II ODP team as a December '93 brithday.

really, I saw no evidence that they scouted at all. The roster was a quirky mix of ODP stars, coaches' kids, and guys who were OK but must have known somebody somewhere, because they weren't club hotshots. Whereas the guys who you would think would have been invited -- club studs who for one reason or another did not make ODP Regional squads -- were not to be found.

This bashing is not the least bit personal, since the boy had no intention of attending id2 camp even if invited. (It was during the school year.) But objectively speaking, it just really really sucked.

I guess they've had somebody different in charge on the girls' side, eh?

So to return to topic ... any clue this was coming? Even if id2 is much better on the girls side, it's hard for me to see how this is better than the DOC of arguable the best girls program in the nation.

[Stinky Shinguards]

Do they actually have training sessions together or friendlies with id2? If so, are these attended by US National Coaches or Collegiate Coaches?

[RegionIIFutbolr]

Hmmm, at my son's year, the id2 guys took a national pool '93 kid, then later put his name on the website as one of their discoveries. It was right there, on U.S. Club, proof of their program. That was funny. So was their claim of finding Charles Renken, after he previously had been placed on the '91 Region II ODP team as a December '93 brithday.

really, I saw no evidence that they scouted at all. The roster was a quirky mix of ODP stars, coaches' kids, and guys who were OK but must have known somebody somewhere, because they weren't club hotshots. Whereas the guys who you would think would have been invited -- club studs who for one reason or another did not make ODP Regional squads -- were not to be found.

This bashing is not the least bit personal, since the boy had no intention of attending id2 camp even if invited. (It was during the school year.) But objectively speaking, it just really really sucked.

I guess they've had somebody different in charge on the girls' side, eh?

So to return to topic ... any clue this was coming? Even if id2 is much better on the girls side, it's hard for me to see how this is better than the DOC of arguable the best girls program in the nation.
Im NOT trying to turn this into a sexist deal, but this is posted on a girls site JR, what happens with the boys is a different thread one would think?;) However I know girls from DSM that played in the SYL during summers and were asked to attend a ID2 camp in Jan down in FL. (Magic girls found playing SYL) So, the answer to your question about scouting, must be happing. Mine was asked, but later found out she was R2 and simply pulled the bid back, which was ok for me, since then I didnt have to spend more $. All I can tell you is it does work on the girls side. I have NO idea on how it works on the boys side.
I dont see anything wrong with another option to play at a different level other than with your club team. ODP, SYL, Guest Playing, ID2, what have you.

Im sure Bird or SoccerPhantom can help out answering some of your questions about training camps etc.

[JohnR]

I dont see anything wrong with another option to play at a different level other than with your club team. ODP, SYL, Guest Playing, ID2, what have you.

OK, I was guilty of sidetracking a girls thread. I admit it.

Here, I am bringing up another boys topic ... but it is relevant this time, I swear. What you write above describes one side of the current battle for power with boys soccer. U.S. Club, Super Y, State/Regional ODP, Regional leagues, and Regional/National competitions aligned in a loose federation of, let the kids do everything. On the other side of the battle lies the Academies and the National youth coaching staff, whose policies are basically let the kids do nothing except for Academy/national stuff. No outside activities at all. The goal is to kill everything ... not only all the items listed above, but also HS, guest playing, Hispano leagues, even 3v3. Those guys want total control.

What I'm saying is, you don't see it yet, but if the Academies take shape on the girls side, your world may change.

[RegionIIFutbolr]

I hear ya JR..USClub, USYSA, SYL, ODP, ID2, RedBull, Academy League, MRL, Catus, Coastal, blah blah blah...Here is what I like the best of all the mentioned...I truely like USClub..Clubs can recruit, as USYSA you get your hands slapped when you do, or what appears that you do. Takes the States out of it. So what you dont play for a Natl Championship with USYSA..Big Deal.

I think this is starting to get a bit off the subj matter ref Coach Dames and ID2 thou...I would love to talk more about TRUE academies, since my daughter is attending a true academy, but lets take it to another thread.

I think Coach Dames will take the ID2 to another level. He knows talent. His Eclipse clubs play the best of the best thru out the year, how can he not identify players?? However, I think Coach Dames is going to have to pack his suitcase a bit more, since he is now with USClub. USClub Regionals, SYL,

[tjdsocc]

I hear ya JR..USClub, USYSA, SYL, ODP, ID2, RedBull, Academy League, MRL, Catus, Coastal, blah blah blah...Here is what I like the best of all the mentioned...I truely like USClub..Clubs can recruit, as USYSA you get your hands slapped when you do, or what appears that you do. Takes the States out of it. So what you dont play for a Natl Championship with USYSA..Big Deal.

I think this is starting to get a bit off the subj matter ref Coach Dames and ID2 thou...I would love to talk more about TRUE academies, since my daughter is attending a true academy, but lets take it to another thread.

I think Coach Dames will take the ID2 to another level. He knows talent. His Eclipse clubs play the best of the best thru out the year, how can he not identify players?? However, I think Coach Dames is going to have to pack his suitcase a bit more, since he is now with USClub. USClub Regionals, SYL,




I question the pick to be quite honest? The Eclipse group caught lightning in a bottle about 5 years ago with the group Nesci had. By the way, I find Nesci a good guy. The club, being organized, started getting the best kids from every area. Their style of play, reason why Ryan was ousted, kick and chase soccer. Bring in the best athletes, strong, physical etc....... Style of play is horrible. They US Club wants to bring this stlye into their program?

Rory, not quite the role model you would want as well. I have heard him call his girls fat pigs, swearing etc...... Not quite the role model most parents are looking for. I think the whole Eclipse thing is starting to fade. Not one girls team made a finals at regionals. Getting way too big to manage.

[tjdsocc]

John,

Agree 100 percent. These SOCCER GODS, not sure what the hell these guys think. What ever happen to the talk about burnout etc..... you never hear that anymore. You know why kids play 3v3 etc.... it is fun. It has to be fun right? Kids are practicing 3 nights a week at 9 and 10? Are you kidding me. The whole soccer deal is about money. All these clubs are starting to bring in full time/full pay guys to manage things. Give me one dedicated coach any day of the week. Academy programs are popping up all over the us, 9/10 year old kids. 5 teams per age group, 900 bucks for the year for club fee's. You have kids who are not very good, parents paying this money? What happened to the rec leagues? Oh well, if parents want to pay for it?

[Bird1812]

John,

Agree 100 percent. These SOCCER GODS, not sure what the hell these guys think. What ever happen to the talk about burnout etc..... you never hear that anymore. You know why kids play 3v3 etc.... it is fun. It has to be fun right? Kids are practicing 3 nights a week at 9 and 10? Are you kidding me. The whole soccer deal is about money. All these clubs are starting to bring in full time/full pay guys to manage things. Give me one dedicated coach any day of the week. Academy programs are popping up all over the us, 9/10 year old kids. 5 teams per age group, 900 bucks for the year for club fee's. You have kids who are not very good, parents paying this money? What happened to the rec leagues? Oh well, if parents want to pay for it?

I'm kind of split on the issue of club fees. On the one hand, I don't have a problem with coaches trying to make a living through soccer. Having been involved in equestrian sports for years, no one ever questioned anyone in that sport attempting to make a living at it. We all might have thought the person was going to have to work his/her tail off to bearly subside, but what the heck, give it a go if it's something you enjoy doing. On the other hand, I do think the costs to particpate at the highest levels of youth soccer have gotten way out of hand with no slow down in sight (except perhaps if the country goes into a serious recession). Today I would consider $900 a very reasonable fee.

But I also have to say, I don't get this mentality that parents of kids who are deemed "not very good" shouldn't pay to have their kids learn the game and those kids should be relegated to the rec leagues. It's sort of like saying that a kid who isn't destine to play for the Philadelphia Philharmonics shouldn't pay for piano lessons. The reality is, the people evaluating players are often the ones who aren't very good. Around my neighborhood we have lots clubs who are looking for the big, fast hard hitting, kick it long soccer players. That does not describe my daughter nor the way she plays. If I hadn't spent the money to have her learn to play the game well, she'd never be playing on the team she plays, one that is currently considered one of the top teams in her age group in Region 1. If parents are getting what they are paying for, which should be seeing their child get better at the game, what does it matter whether they a deemed lower level players? Only in the end can it be determined whether that assessment was correct or not.

[tjdsocc]

I'm kind of split on the issue of club fees. On the one hand, I don't have a problem with coaches trying to make a living through soccer. Having been involved in equestrian sports for years, no one ever questioned anyone in that sport attempting to make a living at it. We all might have thought the person was going to have to work his/her tail off to bearly subside, but what the heck, give it a go if it's something you enjoy doing. On the other hand, I do think the costs to particpate at the highest levels of youth soccer have gotten way out of hand with no slow down in sight (except perhaps if the country goes into a serious recession). Today I would consider $900 a very reasonable fee.

But I also have to say, I don't get this mentality that parents of kids who are deemed "not very good" shouldn't pay to have their kids learn the game and those kids should be relegated to the rec leagues. It's sort of like saying that a kid who isn't destine to play for the Philadelphia Philharmonics shouldn't pay for piano lessons. The reality is, the people evaluating players are often the ones who aren't very good. Around my neighborhood we have lots clubs who are looking for the big, fast hard hitting, kick it long soccer players. That does not describe my daughter nor the way she plays. If I hadn't spent the money to have her learn to play the game well, she'd never be playing on the team she plays, one that is currently considered one of the top teams in her age group in Region 1. If parents are getting what they are paying for, which should be seeing their child get better at the game, what does it matter whether they a deemed lower level players? Only in the end can it be determined whether that assessment was correct or not.

Good points. Wrong wording of kids not very good. If the kids can get some exercise, team building etc...... maybe the expense is worth it.

[Bird1812]

Good points. Wrong wording of kids not very good. If the kids can get some exercise, team building etc...... maybe the expense is worth it.

Thank you. I may be a bit sensitive, because several years ago I helped start a club that was based on giving everyone the chance to learn to play the game. It wasn't cheap to play - $1500 a year, and there was lots of criticism similiar to yours, because many of these kids were not "premier" club material. But they played and trained a lot and when you broke it down, the cost was less than $10 an hour. Kids that go to dance and karate pay a lot more per hour and nobody thinks anything of that.

Initially we started out with one team of 9 and 10 year olds of mixed ability and a coach that knew his stuff. Some of those kids on that first team you knew would do well, in fact two have recently made a Regional ODP team. The funniest of the group was a young lady whose aunt captained a US Olympic team for 10 years, so she obviously had some athletic genes in the family, yet some of our parents not knowing this looked down their nose at this somewhat awkward kid joining the team. She became one of the team's top players in less than a year. But it was the kids that would have been passed over by the so-called "premier" clubs that I consider our biggest success stories. Several have made their high school varsity teams as freshman. One who made the JV team got called up for the state district semi finals and got the winning goal for her high school team to advance. Another played for her varsity team that became a state championship finalist. I have to think their parents would say the time and money spent was worth it.

[tjdsocc]

Good stuff. The money part of soccer, I have no complaints. I do have problems when clubs/our club makes events mandatory. We played futsul this winter, it was okay, more of a fundraising event for the club. What is sad, soccer tends to be more an elite/money sport. There are so many inner city kids that could play but the parents/parent can't take time off work, money to get the kids involved.

All good, soccer is such a great sport. Too bad it will never grow to the heights of other sports.

[MenaceFanatic]

There are so many inner city kids that could play but the parents/parent can't take time off work, money to get the kids involved.

I think it would be appropriate to amend your statement by taking out the words "inner city". It is spot on, but where I come from the vast majority of rural kids cannot afford to get real training. It is somewhat the opposite here, in that it is typically the "city" kids whose parents make a significantly better paycheck than those in the rural areas. All of what you say is true though, and until we can effectively support the desires of any kid to play the sport it will never grow to the levels of the more traditional sports.

[tjdsocc]

I think it would be appropriate to amend your statement by taking out the words "inner city". It is spot on, but where I come from the vast majority of rural kids cannot afford to get real training. It is somewhat the opposite here, in that it is typically the "city" kids whose parents make a significantly better paycheck than those in the rural areas. All of what you say is true though, and until we can effectively support the desires of any kid to play the sport it will never grow to the levels of the more traditional sports.


Your right, depends on location/city etc..... soccer will never be supported like the other sports in the US. Really a sad state but that is the reality. There is only one sport in these other countries which get a lot of support.

Look at some of these soccer academy's across the US, I am sure there is aid but most are 30K.

[JohnR]

Initially we started out with one team of 9 and 10 year olds of mixed ability and a coach that knew his stuff.

Good story.

I think people fail to realize the power of an early start coupled with top notch coaching.

When he was a U7, my son played with 3 other first graders on a bottom division U9 team. All 4 of the first graders were good rec league players, but it is not as if they were sooperdooper stars. They were placed on the U9 team because they showed up, and the U9 team had open slots. The team had a ridiculously overqualified coach, a Bulgarian ex-international who had among other items on his resume, a stint running a top Bulgarian professional team.

The U9s teams they faced generally beat these little guys. I recall one parent scoffing at them as "AYSO rejects."

Those otherwise ordinary kids got a head start that they have never relinquished. Today, all 4 are at major clubs, and it looks as if 3 of the 4 will be among the relative handful of kids in the State next year at their age group to be on an Academy squad. To my knowledge, no other player in that particular U9 league is now playing at such a high level.

[RegionIIFutbolr]

Same story here!! Her's was a over qualifed South African who is now up at a major university doing research. Isnt that right Menace!!