Become a Referee in France

[thegreatcrab]

So I plan on studying abroad in Montpelier in the Fall of 2008. Since I'm a referee here in the US, I thought it might be possible if I could do a few matches in France to work on my skills and to earn a few Euros (especially with the exchange rate right now:eek: )

Anyways I did a couple of searches, including on the FFF website and I found nothing informing me of how to become a referee in France. Now my French isn't perfect but the "Arbitrage" section of the website didn't seem very helpful.

I was hoping some of you guys had some experience here or can help me out in finding out who to contact.

Judging from the English system (I'll be studying in England during the Spring of 2009). I'll have to take a recertification course (since I'm already certified in the US) buy the proper uniform, contact the assignor, and get assigned matches (just like the US).

Thanks in advance!

[Pierre-Henri]

Hello. No offense meant, but you're thinking like an American here. Ie : "I know how to do it, I want to do it, so let's do it".

You should think like a French :

Step 1 : bureaucracy (at national level).
Step 2 : commission what-you-call-it.
Step 3 : more bureaucracy (at regional level).
Step 4 : comitee what's-his-name.
Step 5 : fill-in 141 forms.
Step 6 : more bureaucracy (at departmental level)
Step 6 : fill-in another set of 51 forms.
Step 7 : pass in front of another commission.

and this, until step 2780, when, finally, you may, eventually, if Fate smiles to you, be authorized to, maybe, be allowed to ask the favor of...

I short, I doubt you can make that kind of request from abroad. You'll have to come here first and, either :

1) contact the local comitee of the FFF, at departmental level.
2) If you're in the university, contact the departement of sports, and ask the procedure to be ref. for college soccer (varsity sports only. Unlike US ones, French universities don't have preprofessional sports).

Have to leave now. I'll try to find more details later.

[thegreatcrab]

You're right I am thinking like an American. :)

Anyways I'll be leaving to go to my grandparents house in Auvergne about a month and a half before I start studying. Hopefully if we can figure out the entire bureaucratic process before I go over there, it might make things run more smoothly. (probably not but we can try)

I also have a French passport and a bank account over there so that could make things easier.

[NicolasN.]

I don't know if it might help you but one of my friend passed the exam to become a referee like 2 years ago.

He was studying in a specific place (something like ref. academy?) where people who wanted to become referee studied and after a while he took the exam.

At first you will be in charge of some youth teams games and after a while you may take another exam to ref at a better level. Plus, sometimes there will be supervisors to evaluate you.

That's all I can say, sorry.

[Pierre-Henri]

Being French citizen will make things things easier, undoubtly.

Site of the Languedoc-Roussillon amateur league :
http://languedoc-roussillon.fff.fr/cgi-bin/general/accueil.pl

Postal address :

LIGUE DU LANGUEDOC ROUSSILLON DE FOOTBALL
B.P. 95140
34073 MONTPELLIER Cedex 3

The page "how to become ref."
http://languedoc-roussillon.fff.fr/cg/5300/www/arbitrage/tribune/382584.shtml

[bureaucracy warning]
The league is divided in 4 departmental districts. The district for the city of Montpellier itself is "Hérault".

They give a phone number, but I would not call from the USA : it would be expensive, and they probably won't be able to help you by phone. Try by mail if you want, but don't forget this is local, amateur level. They're working on a village-to-village basis.

You'll need a licence anyway, and you won't be able to get it from abroad. As Nicolas says, it will require you to follow a formation, take exams, and so on. I don't know if a protocol US licence => French licence exists, but it seems really, really doubtfull. You'll probably have to start everything from scratch again.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Now the university :

[bureaucracy warning]
There are 3 different universities in Montpellier (in France, universities are separated, so that humanities can be left to rot).

Montpellier 1 is the medicine & biology university.
Montpellier 2 is the sciences & technology university.
Montpellier 3 Paul Valery is the law, humanities and social sciences university.

[bureaucracy warning]
Sport as an academic discipline is part of Montpellier 1. In French, the acronym is STAPS : http://www.univ-montp1.fr/l_universite/ufrs_et_instituts/ufr_staps

[bureaucracy warning]
However, each one of the three universities has a varsity sport service (SUAPS).

At Montpellier I : http://www.univ-montp1.fr/la_vie_a_l_universite/pratiquer_un_sport

At Montpellier II :http://www.univ-montp2.fr/index.php?nivo0_id=&nivo1_id=&nivo2_id=&nivo3_id=&page_id=37&nivo=1&Tpage=mn

At Montpellier III : http://www.univ-montp3.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=50

Now, you're thinking .... wow, three different public, state-driven administrations doing exactly the same thing in the same city... it's so complicated ! Well, you haven't seen anything yet, because...

[bureaucracy warning]
College varsity sports also have their own national federation, independent from the universities themselves.The site of this federation, for the area of Montpellier, is :
http://www.sport-u-montpellier.com/

Postal address :

Comité Régional du Sport Universitaire
532 av. du Professeur Emile Jeanbrau
34090 Montpellier


I can only give you the addresses, but I don't know what you should do with them. Like everything academical in France, college sports are a bureaucratic loony bin. So, at least, you have a slight idea of what is the French student's curse :

Thou shallt fill in papers and papers and papers ;
Thou shallt make calls and calls and calls ;
Thou shallt be a pinball, rolling form department to department, seeking informations that will never come ;
Thou shallt tirelessly try to understand the grading system, but to no avail ;
Thou shallt spend entire nights classifying administrative forms, only to discover, at dawn, that they make no sense at all ;
Thou shallt be treated as an outcast, because the Sacred Stamp thou hast with thee is not the right Sacred Stamp ;

Thou shallt fill in tomorrow the same inane bureaucratic form that thou fillest yesterday and, this, day after day after day until comes the end of times.

[Lensois]

You'll need a licence anyway, and you won't be able to get it from abroad. As Nicolas says, it will require you to follow a formation, take exams, and so on. I don't know if a protocol US licence => French licence exists, but it seems really, really doubtfull. You'll probably have to start everything from scratch again.

It might be helpful to ask an actual referee about this, greatcrab. I suggest wandering over the the referee forum http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=44 or perhaps the people at Ask the Ref http://asktheref.com/Soccer/Referee/Profile/Index/.

I actually had a French friend who is a referee and was in the states for six month referee some matches over here and didn't have any problems at the local, regional or national level, they all recognized his French license and he was permitted to referee matches commensurate with his level.

You'll definitely have to do some hoop jumping I bet, but I would definitely seek out advice from some referees who may have experience working in a foreign country for an extended period of time.

[thegreatcrab]

Sadly in the referee forum I don't think anyone has had experience with reffing in France. http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42662

I asked a couple months ago when this thread was unburied by some new poster and a new conversation appeared (about halfway down). Everyone spoke about England but not France. I'll ask over at the asktheref website. I forgot about them.

Since FIFA has to regulate everything, I'm pretty confident my certification in the US should work in France. I just need to know who to contact. In the US many times a foreigner will have to take a recertification exam and thats it. Its the same in England as well.

Of course as Pierre-Henri points out, I'm going to have fun with the bureaucracy this summer prior to attending university.


Thanks again everyone!

[guignol]

i would think that if you have a valid referee's diploma it may be a simple question of getting a district license which is NOT a difficult piece of paperwork.

there's a club only about 100 metres from my house with matches every weekend and some weekday evenings. the next time i see an official referee there i'll ask HIM about it...

but that leads to what may be the biggest stumbling block (or opportunity depending on how you want to look at it): whereas in the states all matches have official refs right down to like U-8, in france it's done by club officials or even parents until much later. that means most matches don't even need an official referee. it makes it harder for you to be assigned matches by the district but means you can just go to any club you want, explain your situation and they'll be thrilled to give you officiating work... you'll have fallen from heaven in their eyes.

[thegreatcrab]

Hey guys.

I just wanted to give an update about this.

I contacted a few high ranking referees in the area and they told me to contact NCSRA and/or USSF with my interests. I did, and they sent a "letter of introduction" to the FFF. Hopefully within the next couple of months (the letter is probably sitting in an inbox in paris somewhere waiting for someone who speaks english to bump into it), they'll respond and register me in the French system.

I was told that a referee certification works for any FIFA country, you just have to register with the other association.

Once I get a response I just need to bug the clubs in Montpellier and I've been told by some French referees that they should assign me matches once they get the paperwork.

Hopefully by starting this way ahead of time I'll be able to referee while studying and not be dirt poor. (damn exchange rate:mad:)


I'll keep you guys updated with the eventual adventures to come :-).

[Pierre-Henri]

Yes, thanks for the news. I do hope somebody will actually read the letter. Anyway, If the almighty FIFA recognizes referees licences worldwide, it should be OK.

About the exchange rate... What is it exactly today ? 1 $ = 0.000023 €, or something like this ? Yes, I know, it's always difficult when you move from a third world country, like the USA, to a civilized area :D .

Just kidding, of course. Euros are expensive even for us. For example, gas today is 1.4 € per l. That's 2.1 $ the liter, or 7.7 $ the galon. Good thing I don't own a car.

Last time I was in Paris, I spent 6.5 € (10 $) for a crappy, industrial made sandwich. And the hotel room (tiny, average, nothing fancy) was 120 € (186 $). The Strasbourg-Paris-Strasbourg trip, by train, was 130 € (202 $). (And I've spent all of this to flunk a job interview :mad:).

So, prepare yourself for huge expenses. Maybe your parents will have to find a second job in a salt mine for a while.

[guignol]

oh, i think you're exagerrating... for a change! ;)

when we go to paris we stay at the kyriad, which is about the nicest of the family chains, and pay about 60-70€ for a family suite.

a couple of years ago my wife and i went for a weekend and i remember getting a hellacious deal on a little hotel in the 1st arrondissement can't recall name or exactaddress but it was very nice, on a little green (triangular) square, and it was about 50€. that's an exception, but all in all paris is no more expensive than SF.

in lille i go to the globe... it's a little rundown but i like it, and by omitting to have our travel dept. find me a place i save the company squillions. it's almost free.

the SNCF has become ludicrously expensive unless you have some kind of card or special deal. there are lots of those but they've become so complex you need a PhD is psychosomaticological engineering to figure them out.

if you're a student, hitchhike! the only way to fly!

[Pierre-Henri]

Granted, I trusted the SNCF for the hotel room. I had no time to check each and every hotel in the 20 arrondissements to make my choice.

Rule n°1 for travellers in France : don't try to understand the SNCF. You can't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wmzXv_azeg

[guignol]

a shame too, because in years of globetrotting i learned that the SNCF, even in pre-TGV days, was in all respects the very best rail system in europe and in many ways it still is.

[thegreatcrab]

I've used European rail for much of my life. And the company I never had trouble was the SNCF.

DB? yeah. Those two have driven me mad, but the SNCF has always run well for me :-)

Hopefully I have one of those Cards Guignol was talking about I picked up some international student ID card when I bought my plane ticket over.

Hopefully that'll do the trick.

Is there anyone from the Montpellier area here that knows of good places to watch soccer/football? I found an Irish pub which I'll certainly be attending :).

[guignol]

your student card will be useful, but probably won't get you special fares by itself. there will probably be a card you BUY from the SNCF that will get you those fares. but the card will pay for itself with the very first trip and be useful for 6 months or a year.

that's the way our chidren's card is. my wife can take the kids to the in-laws cheaper tha she can go alone.

[thegreatcrab]

I guess it's time for an update...

So I've been here in Montpellier for a month. I've settled in, and made some serious progress on refereeing... however I've hit a road block and there's not much I can do about it.

About a week into my stay I ventured over to the Ligue de Languedoc-Roussillon offices. Amazingly enough I had enough paperwork for him. I explained my situation, and showed him all my USSF registration. My card, patch, and copy of my recertification file. The assignor was going to send copies of all these documents to the Fed to get permission for me to ref. The assignor then gave me an invite to attend a referee conference of all the referees from the region.

The next week I'm at a hotel in town with about 200 other referees. Now this recertification/confrence/workshop thing was fantastic. They started us off with a test that I passed by one point, but I couldn't finish the last 4 questions in time. (there were native French speakers that failed it though so that made me feel good). Unlike the US test, the French wasn't multiple choice. It was multiple essays, BAC style.

Afterwards we went over some more complex situations, much like a recertification class in the US. We also had a few guest speakers, one was a FIFA and Ligue 1 ref. Another was a lawyer/Ligue 2 ref (he gave us an hour and half long speach about how we're protected legally blah blah blah blah). And the final speaker was the French Women's national team coach.

We also ate a fabulous meal. OK it really wasn't all that spectacular when comparing it to other French multi-course meals, but compared to the one hour lunch break to buy fast food I get in the states, a nice multi course meal with wine from the area was amazing.

Anyways by the end of this I learned a bit more about refereeing, made some friends, and felt pretty confident this was all going to work out. We just needed to wait on the d'accord from the Fed.

Well it's been 2 weeks since then, I've emailed the assigner, and he hasn't heard a thing from Paris yet...

Oh well, worst case scenario I grab one of those flyers for an english-speaking babysitter to make money.


My apologies if this post is mildly incoherent, I'm writing it at 330 AM after a Ligue 2 game in Montpellier and now I'm watching my USL-1 team in a playoff push back home in the states.

I'll keep you guys posted with what's going on. And if any of you end up in Montpellier in the near future feel free to shoot me a PM and we'll have a drink or go to a crappy Montpellier game :-).

[Pierre-Henri]

Thanks for the update. Don't scorn ligue 2, that's where the real supporters meet. Of course, Montpellier shivers in front of the indomitable storks, but don't worry : they all do. We're invincible.

You should a little bit of rugby, too, since you're in the area : Montauban, Béziers, Perpignan, Albi (small town rugby being probably much interesting that Toulouse spiritless big thing).

I hope the local league will accept you. I can't believe they harass people even in the minor leagues.

[guignol]

sounds like a great experience and i'm looking forward to hearing more.

[thegreatcrab]

First Game tomorrow...

15 ANS EXCELLENCE Journée : 7
Samedi 15 novembre 2008 - 16H00

Castelnau Le Cres - Lattes As



Lets see what happens... :-) Boy will they be surprised when this American bloke in a USSF referee outfit steps on the field.

[Pierre-Henri]

Great !

Don't worry, teenagers beating refs only happens very occasionally in France. How many cases we had last year ? 250, 300 ? Almost nothing.

Just kidding.