Why NYFC? (not sarcasm)

[MintyDude]

I've been on bigsoccer for a bit now, and for some reason I've never come across a legitimate reason for NY to get another team. A derby would be nice, but isn't it a bit greedy to grant another team to one of the least supportive cities in the league (despite it's size)?

I'm sure you guys will have answers in a jiffy, and I'm not poking fun at the idea, I really just don't see why you don't support NYRB in the first place. As a PNW resident, I can tell you I'd be willing to support any team within 400 or so miles... so the fact that you feel the need to have two in one city, and that NYRB isn't good enough baffles me.

Why is NYRB un-supportable? Did it start with the metrostars, or is this a new institution due to RB's corporate handling of the team?

[TheHun]

Firstly, Let me wish you and everyone a Merry Christmas - I hope you get an enjoyable soccer season.

Secondly, I wanted to add my two cents about New York having a second team.

While I agree that NYRB / MetroStars have been one of the worse supported club (in ratio to population) in the MLS, that should not reflect the city as a soccer mecca.

Take the example of any European or South American city of size - there are ALWAYS at least two clubs. Even Russia in the deepest time of communism had at least two in Moscow ! - choices

Given a chance, competition might be a catalyst for the current MLS club in NY to stay competative - and a derby is a sell out at least twice a year.

One of the greatest problems is the identity crisis caused by team identifiction - there have been so many teams in so many leagues in NY that there is little tradition and lots of sceptisism.

The one thing that can be said of the COSMOS was that they left some sort of legacy. At least 15 years worth. When any club can last past that 15 year mark (without changing logos or names) then we can begin to measure a legitimate club.

I do hope that NY gets another club, not neccessarily on merit, but because it would be good for the game and the league.

Lastly, when and if NY gets that second club, i'm sure there will be debate about the name. While I will not name a specific personal choice, i will say that when I saw this post originally, I thought of the old A.S.L. club called New York F.C. - winners of the 1923-24 Southern New York State Cup.

My new book with touch upon this and other clubs from before right up to the present. (feel free to PM me if you have any interest in American Soccer History)

HAPPY HOLIDAYS !

[NYC ugly]

I've been on bigsoccer for a bit now, and for some reason I've never come across a legitimate reason for NY to get another team. A derby would be nice, but isn't it a bit greedy to grant another team to one of the least supportive cities in the league (despite it's size)?

I'm sure you guys will have answers in a jiffy, and I'm not poking fun at the idea, I really just don't see why you don't support NYRB in the first place. As a PNW resident, I can tell you I'd be willing to support any team within 400 or so miles... so the fact that you feel the need to have two in one city, and that NYRB isn't good enough baffles me.

Why is NYRB un-supportable? Did it start with the metrostars, or is this a new institution due to RB's corporate handling of the team?

Metrostars and Red Bulls and the Nets are New Jersey Teams. Very different from the Giants and the Jets who are New York Teams who are being hosted by the Meadowlands (right or wrong, that's the perception - perception is reality). The Red Bulls are not accepted by New Yorkers as their own. If you don't live in New York, it's something you'll never understand. The same reason why the Nets will have more than 10 times the support once they start carrying the "Brooklyn Nets" or "New York Nets" name when they move to Brooklyn. The New Jersey Nets, no matter how good they are cannot attract a fly from New York no matter how stinky the Knicks are ( a decade now). MLS should give "New York" a try. If It doesn't work, no one can stop them from moving the team anyway. New Yorkers want an MLS team because they DON"T have one.

[QueensNick]

Metrostars and Red Bulls and the Nets are New Jersey Teams. Very different from the Giants and the Jets who are New York Teams who are being hosted by the Meadowlands (right or wrong, that's the perception - perception is reality). The Red Bulls are not accepted by New Yorkers as their own. If you don't live in New York, it's something you'll never understand. The same reason why the Nets will have more than 10 times the support once they start carrying the "Brooklyn Nets" or "New York Nets" name when they move to Brooklyn. The New Jersey Nets, no matter how good they are cannot attract a fly from New York no matter how stinky the Knicks are ( a decade now). MLS should give "New York" a try. If It doesn't work, no one can stop them from moving the team anyway. New Yorkers want an MLS team because they DON"T have one.


Here is my thoughts - First off Happy Hoildays to all!

This is no disrespect to the city of Seattle! Im a huge Husky fan! WOOF WOOF!

But, New York is spoiled! We have two teams in every sport! We thrive on that rivalry. We really dont understand the concept of supporting a team that is so far away. When you go to another city, maybe that is normal to support a team that plays even a couple of hundred miles away, but for the Most Part its not here (The only exception seems to be the NFL - many people like many different teams). Not to mention, we are so populated in this area, we can support two clubs! Look at London, they have about 5 Major clubs and they all get support. New York can be the same.

About supporting the Red Bulls. Ok, I have been a fan of the game for a very long time. Yes, I watch a lot of the European leagues but when the M.L.S came to existence, I tried to adapt the Metrostars as my team, but they just didnt embrace me. You cant say poor performance, because in Year 1 they went to the Playoffs and beat DC in the first game in a dramatic shootout! (Remember the old format).

I really think there is a couple of reasons why people dont support, or should i say go to the matches!

1. NY vs. NJ - unless you are from the City, you will not understand how it hurts New Yorkers to hear New Jersey be part of the New York Area. Sadly, Jersey is filled with old Boroughers who just want to raise a family outside of the city, but even those relatives "live in jersey". Its petty, its not like New York wants to start a civil war with Jersey, its just a fun rivalry. New Yorkers are a proud bunch - very proud!

2. It sounds crazy but even though its only 15 miles away, if you live in Brooklyn, Queens or Long Island (Which I feel many of the soccer fans in the area do) It can take you a long time to get through the city to get to the Meadowlands. Most of the M.L.S matches are played on a saturday afternoon. Has anyone tried to cut accross Manhattan Island then. I do it on Sundays for the Jets game and somtimes that can take an hour. On a saturday evenening it might take a couple of hours to get there. Especially if you are from Long Island. This isnt a couple of hours of open driving, its a couple of hours of obnoxious New York Traffic. We have to admit, soccer isnt big enough in the states yet for someone to do that.

Put a more accessable team in the area and people will take their kids to a soccer game. Long Island has a huge Youth Soccer league!!! My Uncle (May he rest in peace) used to take his kids to Rough Rider games all the time, because they were accessable. Im not saying he should be looked at as the majority but I know for a fact, as a coach and kids who love the game, he maybe went to see the RB once a year with his kids. Its tough!

I know there are people from cities who want a club who probably think we are being selfish because we have a club! We are spoiled, its the New York Way - i am not saying its a valid reason, but the league has given us reason to believe there is a chance for another team and we WANT THAT!

Good luck to all candidate cities, but I have to say. I hope one day the Borough Boys Supporters Club is singing in your stadium!!!!

[evangel]

Actually it's you people who live in the other boroughs who have some strange hatred of Jersey. It's always hard for me to find someone in Manhattan who cares about these things. The other boroughs are about as third world as Jersey, so I couldn't care less.:p

In fact, traveling to Jersey is sometimes a lot easier here. I would rather go to the Harrison area than Shea stadium. It's far easier and less of a hassle for me. Though unfortunately the tolls for the Hudson River tunnels and the PATH are going to be raised by the time Red Bull Park opens.

[southpaw817]

I've been on bigsoccer for a bit now, and for some reason I've never come across a legitimate reason for NY to get another team. A derby would be nice, but isn't it a bit greedy to grant another team to one of the least supportive cities in the league (despite it's size)?

I'm sure you guys will have answers in a jiffy, and I'm not poking fun at the idea, I really just don't see why you don't support NYRB in the first place. As a PNW resident, I can tell you I'd be willing to support any team within 400 or so miles... so the fact that you feel the need to have two in one city, and that NYRB isn't good enough baffles me.

Why is NYRB un-supportable? Did it start with the metrostars, or is this a new institution due to RB's corporate handling of the team?
Your input is appreciated. It really doesnt have anything to do with coporate handling or RB being succesful. We just want a city that rep's us,there is no way that you will tell a New Yorker that Harrison NJ reps them. No matter how many ways you try to explain it we will never except them as a NY team. I dont think that it is too much to ask for arguably the biggest and most influential city in the world to have a team playing the worlds most popular game.Also this city is built on rivalries,if its not neigborhood/neighborhood,borough/borough its team/team. Look at when we had three baseball teams.Bk was predominatly Dodger fans,Bx Yank and Manhattan were Giant fans. They would argue about who had the better centerfielder Willie,Micky,or the Duke. You have it in every sport in Ny(hockey,football,and soon to be basketball with the Brooklyn Nets.A city as big as NY needs atleast 2 teams to build a rivalry in which each team feeds off each other.

Actually it's you people who live in the other boroughs who have some strange hatred of Jersey. It's always hard for me to find someone in Manhattan who cares about these things. The other boroughs are about as third world as Jersey, so I couldn't care less.:p
You dont get it Manhattan b/c there arent mant NY'rs in Manhattan(well except uptown).Its just the way it is,the born and bred Ny'rs usually live in the boroughs while Manhattanites are usually yups who move here in their 20's to live the NY dream(and there is nothing wrong with this,just the way it is).

[evangel]

You dont get it Manhattan b/c there arent mant NY'rs in Manhattan(well except uptown).Its just the way it is,the born and bred Ny'rs usually live in the boroughs while Manhattanites are usually yups who move here in their 20's to live the NY dream(and there is nothing wrong with this,just the way it is).

Well, I've been living in Manhattan since I was two years old, so I also consider myself a born and bred New Yorker. And I never said I don't think another team is necessary. I clearly understand that the majority of soccer fans in the city are over in Queens and Brooklyn.

What I'm trying to understand is where the New Jersey hatred comes from. I never feel any differently when I'm in Queens than when I'm in Jersey City, except that in Queens there's the subway. Suburban New Jersey is certainly pretty boring, but everything from the Newark to the Hudson River coast is more like New York than it is like the rest of Jersey, and this is where the Red Bulls will reside when the stadium is built.

[southpaw817]

Well, I've been living in Manhattan since I was two years old, so I also consider myself a born and bred New Yorker. And I never said I don't think another team is necessary. I clearly understand that the majority of soccer fans in the city are over in Queens and Brooklyn.

What I'm trying to understand is where the New Jersey hatred comes from. I never feel any differently when I'm in Queens than when I'm in Jersey City, except that in Queens there's the subway. Suburban New Jersey is certainly pretty boring, but everything from the Newark to the Hudson River coast is more like New York than it is like the rest of Jersey, and this is where the Red Bulls will reside when the stadium is built.
I guess thats why I cant make generalizations lol,there are always exceptions. But in all honesty its not a hate for New Jersey,I have no problem with them. Its just a friendly border rivalry nothing more nothing less.

[KingsCountyFC]

Just the Boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens house at least
5 million people. That's half the city and more than most other metropolitan areas.
To use RedBulls as a gauge of enthusiasm for soccer in New York is illogical and ignorant of our socio-geography. I know so many soccer fans in Brooklyn that are simply not enthusiastic about supporting a team from new jersey. Anyone not from this area will never understand why we want a second team, and how well supported a second team will be here.
Trust me, if you build it, we will come.

[tommymcb]

Short answer:

New York is enormous.

Long answer:

Pop. of North Jersey: 1.9 mil
Pop. of Brooklyn: 2.46 mil

Pop. of Queens: 2.22 mil
Pop. of The Bronx: 1.36 mil

Pop. of Salt Lake City metro area: 1.2 mil
Pop. of Denver metro area: 2.4 mil

Pop. of Columbus metro area: 1.72 mil
Pop. of Kansas City metro area: 2.1 mil

If every NYFC fan lived in Queens or the Bronx, it would be similar to drawing from both Salt Lake City and Denver.

By comparison, Red Bull would be left with North Jersey and Brooklyn. Thats similar to drawing from Kansas City and Columbus.

This is assuming that neither team draws anyone from Manhattan, Long Island, or Westchester.

Look closer at the populations of the New York areas, and you will find a very high population of immigrants. To me, its an absolute no brainer to put another team in NY.

[MasterShake29]

Short answer:

New York is enormous.

Long answer:

Pop. of North Jersey: 1.9 mil

The population of North Jersey is a heck of a lot more than 1.9 million. Depending on how you define it, it's probably 2-3 times that.

[MasterShake29]

Metrostars and Red Bulls and the Nets are New Jersey Teams. Very different from the Giants and the Jets who are New York Teams who are being hosted by the Meadowlands (right or wrong, that's the perception - perception is reality).

The reason no one will get that is because it makes no sense.

I knew as soon as I clicked on this thread and read the first post that this is what would follow.

Some of you amaze me sometimes.

[tommymcb]

As a PNW resident, I can tell you I'd be willing to support any team within 400 or so miles... so the fact that you feel the need to have two in one city, and that NYRB isn't good enough baffles me.


Its a 400 mile drive to go from Boston to Baltimore. I don't think you will find too many Baltimore Ravens fans in Boston.

[NYC_COSMOS]

The reason no one will get that is because it makes no sense.

I knew as soon as I clicked on this thread and read the first post that this is what would follow.

Some of you amaze me sometimes.

You dont get it and you never will. Why, you ask? Because your address says New Jersey!

[NYC_COSMOS]

Many of the reasons why RBNJ and previously the Metrostars didnt attract many NY'ers is because they never truly marketed themselves this way. It's not a secret, even Ives has written about it. From Metromedia to AEG to now RB Inc none of these organizations have really cared about the NYC market. They went after the NJ market. This is NOT something I've made up but rather something that IVES has written about repeatedly in his blog. It comes from sources within MLS and the past/present owners of the MetroBulls.

Now the league feels its the right time to finally open up the NYC market and allow the league to explode the way it should have in the beginning.

[MasterShake29]

You dont get it and you never will. Why, you ask? Because your address says New Jersey!

No, it's got nothing to do with my address, it's because I'm not an idiot.

[NYC_COSMOS]

No, it's got nothing to do with my address, it's because I'm not an idiot.

You can't prove that! Please only post stuff relevant information. lol lol Merry Christmas!

[evangel]

Now the league feels its the right time to finally open up the NYC market and allow the league to explode the way it should have in the beginning.

I don't think putting a team in the city will alone be enough to make the league explode, but it will certainly be one reason why it does. I have no doubt the stadium would fill up, but I wonder how high the television ratings for the team would be.

Also, the Red Bulls should remain with the New York label. Anyone who says differently is letting their personal feelings stop them from seeing what's best for the league. Having two teams with New York in their names is far better than one with New York and one with New Jersey.

New Yorkers would obviously know the team is in New Jersey, but labeling the Red Bulls as a New Jersey team would give outsiders the impression that the team is far away from New York, which is not the case. NYRB is well within the metropolitan area. For example, the Manchester derby wouldn't be the same if Manchester United were called Trafford United. Not all local derbies in the world have teams with the city's name, but marketing two New York teams is no doubt the best option for the league.

[southpaw817]

I don't think putting a team in the city will alone be enough to make the league explode, but it will certainly be one reason why it does. I have no doubt the stadium would fill up, but I wonder how high the television ratings for the team would be.

Also, the Red Bulls should remain with the New York label. Anyone who says differently is letting their personal feelings stop them from seeing what's best for the league. Having two teams with New York in their names is far better than one with New York and one with New Jersey.

New Yorkers would obviously know the team is in New Jersey, but labeling the Red Bulls as a New Jersey team would give outsiders the impression that the team is far away from New York, which is not the case. NYRB is well within the metropolitan area. For example, the Manchester derby wouldn't be the same if Manchester United were called Trafford United. Not all local derbies in the world have teams with the city's name, but marketing two New York teams is no doubt the best option for the league.

I agree with you here,it wouldnt be as effective if one was NY/NJ. If they want to call it NY even though they are in NJ who are we to stop them? Its not our millions being spent.

[QueensNick]

I agree - the NY label is better for the league

Also, the NY label would be better for us as supporters because the songs we could come up with will be more entertaining than if they were NJ! HA HA!