Players who never got enough credit

[johan neeskens]

Jonny van T'schip (spelling??) - many years ago I was given a video of "The Best European Goals". It had a selection of goals scored by this guy. What a fantastic selection they were. The only goals I've seen as good were by Saint Matt (above).

I'm Dutch but I don't think Van 't Schip was very known for his beautiful goals, he was a quality right winger but not exactly a prolific goalscorer: he has 42 Holland caps and only 2 goals to his credit, for example. I don't remember him ever scoring many goals for his clubs either. Are you sure you're not mistaking him for Bergkamp? As the beauty of the goals of the latter are indeed legendary.

On that note Bergkamp doesn't really belong in this thread, he always got plenty of credit. He was even in the top three of a world footballer of the year thing once.

[Seaside Mafia]

I'm Dutch but I don't think Van 't Schip was very known for his beautiful goals, he was a quality right winger but not exactly a prolific goalscorer: he has 42 Holland caps and only 2 goals to his credit, for example. I don't remember him ever scoring many goals for his clubs either. Are you sure you're not mistaking him for Bergkamp? As the beauty of the goals of the latter are indeed legendary.

On that note Bergkamp doesn't really belong in this thread, he always got plenty of credit. He was even in the top three of a world footballer of the year thing once.

Nope. Definitely Van't Schip. And, no, been a football fan long enough to know who Denis Bergkamp is :cool: The van T'Schip goals were for Ajax and were top class. Maybe you're not old enough to have seen them?:p

[johan neeskens]

Nope. Definitely Van't Schip. And, no, been a football fan long enough to know who Denis Bergkamp is :cool: The van T'Schip goals were for Ajax and were top class. Maybe you're not old enough to have seen them?:p

He has an average of about 2 or 3 goals a season for his club! Again I'm not slagging off Van 't Schip or anything, I just find it strange that you pick out goalscoring as his best quality. I'm sure the goals he did score were top class but looking at the thread title I don't think he fits the bill. He didn't even make it into the millennium top 100 of best Dutch footballers of the century, for example.

If you want to pick Ajax wingers that never got enough credit internationally I'd pick players like Tjeu La Ling and Simon Tahamata over Van 't Schip. Overall though it's not exactly Ajax players who suffer from a lack of credit internationally. It's players like Faas Wilkes (the first Dutch footballer to play abroad), and Abe Lenstra (who famously was offered a blank cheque by Inter but refused as he didn't want to leave his beloved Friesland) who deserve more. When Faas Wilkes died I posted a message on the Inter and Valencia boards and they didn't even know who he was. Now THAT is sad.

[squidward123]

When Faas Wilkes died I posted a message on the Inter and Valencia boards and they didn't even know who he was. Now THAT is sad.

that's because he didn't play in the EPL. We're in a generation where everyone grew up with the EPL, even if they support inter or valencia.

[johan neeskens]

that's because he didn't play in the EPL. We're in a generation where everyone grew up with the EPL, even if they support inter or valencia.

That's just wrong. Call me old-fashioned but I think a football fan ought to be aware of the legendary figures in the history of the club they allegedly support.

[squidward123]

That's just wrong. Call me old-fashioned but I think a football fan ought to be aware of the legendary figures in the history of the club they allegedly support.

well most EPL fans don't even know anything about division 1 or what liverpool were like when they were actually winning...so forget knowing about the old players of OTHER leagues.

[Seaside Mafia]

He has an average of about 2 or 3 goals a season for his club! Again I'm not slagging off Van 't Schip or anything, I just find it strange that you pick out goalscoring as his best quality. I'm sure the goals he did score were top class but looking at the thread title I don't think he fits the bill. He didn't even make it into the millennium top 100 of best Dutch footballers of the century, for example.

If you want to pick Ajax wingers that never got enough credit internationally I'd pick players like Tjeu La Ling and Simon Tahamata over Van 't Schip. Overall though it's not exactly Ajax players who suffer from a lack of credit internationally. It's players like Faas Wilkes (the first Dutch footballer to play abroad), and Abe Lenstra (who famously was offered a blank cheque by Inter but refused as he didn't want to leave his beloved Friesland) who deserve more. When Faas Wilkes died I posted a message on the Inter and Valencia boards and they didn't even know who he was. Now THAT is sad.

I wish I were technically proficient enough to put the goals up on YouTuvbe for you to see. But I take your point. If he scored great goals, but very few, then maybe he shouldn't be in this thread.

[Seaside Mafia]

well most EPL fans don't even know anything about division 1 or what liverpool were like when they were actually winning...so forget knowing about the old players of OTHER leagues.

When Liverpool were winning all the time it was really really ..............dull.

Bit like Schuey in F1. You grudgingly respected the skill.

[dor02]

When Liverpool were winning all the time it was really really ..............dull.

Bit like Schuey in F1. You grudgingly respected the skill.Most of the races seemed boring because he won them with the greatest of ease. When he had to work his way from the back or battle someone, it was great. Then again, when you support Ferrari, any of Schuey's wins are great (unless you hated him at Benetton).

that's because he didn't play in the EPL. We're in a generation where everyone grew up with the EPL, even if they support inter or valencia.A majority of fans are just bandwagoners. I don't know a Inter fan aside from my dad's cousin who would know about Inter's history and La Liga fans are probably bigger bandwagoners than EPL fans. Whenever I go on the Spanish board, it's practically dead!

[Paganitzu]

Luc Nilis

Luc Nilis was one of the best strikers of PSV Eindhoven with Ronaldo and Romario. But he never got the respect he deserved. Especially in countries outsite the Netherlands. Even in his own country, Belgium, he was underrated and never won the "Player of the Year" award. Luckily the do respect him now, as one of the best players belgium ever had.

His freekicks where amazing, his shots were amazing. He played with great stars as Ronaldo and Nistelrooy. Was praised by them as the best player they ever played with. He was always the player who gave the final pass, but still he scored loads of goals and most of them are fabulous..

When he was 33 he finally got a chance to go to England. Aston Villa became his new team. In the matches he played he was quite impressing and scored a stunning goal against Chelsea. But after a few matches he broke his leg. I think that many people here do remind the picture of Nilis with his broken leg... Played only 4 matches for Aston Villa if I'm right...

Picture injury: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/img/galleries/sportinjury/nilis_326x350.jpg

Compilation of his best moments:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yv4BUoHp1w

Stats

1984/'85 FC Winterslag----------(Bel2)-------22----5--0,23
1985/'86 FC Winterslag----------(Bel2)-------25---11--0,44
1986/'87 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------16----5--0,31
1987/'88 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------32---14--0,44
1988/'89 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------33---19--0,58
1989/'90 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------27---10--0,38
1990/'91 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------30---19--0,63
1991/'92 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------27---16--0,59
1992/'93 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------29---19--0,66
1993/'94 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------30---25--0,83
1994/'95 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------30---12--0,4
1995/'96 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------31---21--0,68
1996/'97 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------26---21--0,81
1997/'98 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------24---13--0,54
1998/'99 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------27---24--0,89
1999/'00 PSV---------------------(Ned1)--------26---19--0,73
2000/'01 Aston Villa---------------(Eng1)--------3----1--0,33

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Good shout.

[lanman]

Davie Cooper, Rangers - not really given much credit outside Scotland. However, he was a genius. Rug Gullit recently had him in his All-Time Team, which implies he wasn't under-rated by his peers.

Have to second the call for Davie Cooper. Absolute magical little player.

[lanman]

that's because he didn't play in the EPL. We're in a generation where everyone grew up with the EPL, even if they support inter or valencia.

In some ways it's worse in England. Sky would have you believe that football started in this country in 1992 with the Premiership.

[dor02]

Luc Nilis

Luc Nilis was one of the best strikers of PSV Eindhoven with Ronaldo and Romario. But he never got the respect he deserved. Especially in countries outsite the Netherlands. Even in his own country, Belgium, he was underrated and never won the "Player of the Year" award. Luckily the do respect him now, as one of the best players belgium ever had.

His freekicks where amazing, his shots were amazing. He played with great stars as Ronaldo and Nistelrooy. Was praised by them as the best player they ever played with. He was always the player who gave the final pass, but still he scored loads of goals and most of them are fabulous..

When he was 33 he finally got a chance to go to England. Aston Villa became his new team. In the matches he played he was quite impressing and scored a stunning goal against Chelsea. But after a few matches he broke his leg. I think that many people here do remind the picture of Nilis with his broken leg... Played only 4 matches for Aston Villa if I'm right...

Picture injury: http://img.dailymail.co.uk/img/galleries/sportinjury/nilis_326x350.jpg

Compilation of his best moments:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yv4BUoHp1w

Stats

1984/'85 FC Winterslag----------(Bel2)-------22----5--0,23
1985/'86 FC Winterslag----------(Bel2)-------25---11--0,44
1986/'87 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------16----5--0,31
1987/'88 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------32---14--0,44
1988/'89 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------33---19--0,58
1989/'90 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------27---10--0,38
1990/'91 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------30---19--0,63
1991/'92 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------27---16--0,59
1992/'93 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------29---19--0,66
1993/'94 Anderlecht-------------(Bel1)--------30---25--0,83
1994/'95 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------30---12--0,4
1995/'96 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------31---21--0,68
1996/'97 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------26---21--0,81
1997/'98 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------24---13--0,54
1998/'99 PSV--------------------(Ned1)--------27---24--0,89
1999/'00 PSV---------------------(Ned1)--------26---19--0,73
2000/'01 Aston Villa---------------(Eng1)--------3----1--0,33Nilis definitely fits here, especially like you said, he had guys like Ronaldo and RVN as teammates. An unsung hero. His NT record wasn't too great though. Wilmots was better for Belgium.

[Paganitzu]

Nilis definitely fits here, especially like you said, he had guys like Ronaldo and RVN as teammates. An unsung hero. His NT record wasn't too great though. Wilmots was better for Belgium.
Yep, his marriage with the belgium national team wasn't a very big succes. But that doesn't say much about the player's quality if they don't feel the respect they deserve.

An example these days is Seedorf, CL Midfielder of the Year but not good enough for our NT...

[Seaside Mafia]

Yep, his marriage with the belgium national team wasn't a very big succes. But that doesn't say much about the player's quality if they don't feel the respect they deserve.

An example these days is Seedorf, CL Midfielder of the Year but not good enough for our NT...

Franky van der Elst was another great Belgian player that seldom gets mentioned, and neither does Enzo Scifo. I used to dread it when he was in a Belgian team playing England.

[johan neeskens]

An example these days is Seedorf, CL Midfielder of the Year but not good enough for our NT...

His last game for Holland reconfirmed to me that we're better off without Seedorf. As René van der Gijp said: "He was defending his direct opponent, running back from attack to defence as if he need to catch a train............ next week." See that's the thing, with Holland he needs to take defensive responsibility and be tactically disciplined, with Milan he doesn't. The Dutch aren't going to sacrifice a player to do the dirty defensive work for him. And rightly so - I mean he's a quality player but Cruyff he ain't.

[Massimo_Oddo]

His last game for Holland reconfirmed to me that we're better off without Seedorf. As René van der Gijp said: "He was defending his direct opponent, running back from attack to defence as if he need to catch a train............ next week." See that's the thing, with Holland he needs to take defensive responsibility and be tactically disciplined, with Milan he doesn't. The Dutch aren't going to sacrifice a player to do the dirty defensive work for him. And rightly so - I mean he's a quality player but Cruyff he ain't.

Seedorf has defensive responsiblity for Milan when they play the 4-3-1-2.

[johan neeskens]

Seedorf has defensive responsiblity for Milan when they play the 4-3-1-2.

I've never seen him take any defensive responsibility for Holland though. I respect what he's achieved on the club level but of the say 80 games he's played for Holland, he only played about 10 games genuinely well. That's not enough, especially not for a player of his stature.

[squidward123]

And rightly so - I mean he's a quality player but Cruyff he ain't.

cruyff could do his own defending