Naturalization will KILL international football

[Soccerfever]

Okay okay,I know that some people will hate me and call me all sorts of names,but I really need to talk about this.

Here are a few players who have this thing in common...

Miroslav Klose:Born in Poland,from Polish parents but yet plays for Germany...it makes no sense...

Emmanuel Olisadebe:Nigerian,but never got the call up to play under Nigeria.Used to play his club football in Poland.Got naturalized in 2000(just in time for the World Cup qualifiers) because he was scoring some goals in the Polish Championship and the Polish crowd started to like him only when he was scoring some goals on the international stage.If it wasn't for him,Poland wouldn't have been at the World Cup last year.

Alessandro Santos:This is one of my favorites,He's a Brazilian born,but because he's been linving in Japan for the last 8 years or so,he's considered as a Japanese...I mean come on!

Gerald Asamoah:He's Ghanaian,his father wanted him to play for the national team of Ghana but decided to play for Germany instead because he plays club football over there.Now I find his case very interesting because he probably made it to the final 23 players list for the World Cup because many Germans players missed the finals due to injury(Mehmet Scholl,Alexander Zickler,Joerg Heinrich).Played mostly as a sub at the finals last year.His international career his probably over since Germany have some fine upcoming youngsters such as Freddi Bobbic,Kuranyani and Rau.I would be very surprised if his name is held when the finals will be played in his "home country".This is very sad because Ghana is in need of players like him as they failed to qualify for the African Nations Cup and are looking for a World Cup finals berth for their first time.

George Boateng:From Ghana...plays for the Netherlands......what is it with those Ghanaian players...

I think that you guys get the picture now.But my point is that,if a foreigh player is very good in the local championship of any country and never been capped by the country that he's really from,then naturalization comes in.So for example,if in the J-League(Japanese Championship) the best players are foreighers and never been capped,then the Japanese FA just have to naturalize them in order to have the strongest national team as possible with the local championship players which are not real Japaneses.What I'm saying is that it's way too easy for any FA to do and is not so good for the international game.It's okay to have some players from different parts of the world in the same team for club football,but not so good in international football...

And another example,I'm a very big fan of the Czech Republic,but I'm Canadian!So all I have to do is to go to Czech Republic,live there for 3 years or so and poof I'm now a Czech???It's way too easy...What's next,an American player playing for the North Korean national team???


Don't get me wrong,for some players it's very understandable since they left there native home country when there were very young,OR when a country as been a former colony of another country,example:Netherlands Antilles and Netherlands(Edgar Davids,Clarence Seedorf).

Please tell me what you think about naturalization of players.

[Sykotyk]

But isn't the rule basically state that once you play for one country, you can't play for any other country?

Did any of these players get around that, is that rule not actually official, changed... or something else?

Sykotyk

[olafgb]

Originally posted by Soccerfever
Okay okay,I know that some people will hate me and call me all sorts of names,but I really need to talk about this.

Here are a few players who have this thing in common...

Miroslav Klose:Born in Poland,from Polish parents but yet plays for Germany...it makes no sense...

Emmanuel Olisadebe:Nigerian,but never got the call up to play under Nigeria.Used to play his club football in Poland.Got naturalized in 2000(just in time for the World Cup qualifiers) because he was scoring some goals in the Polish Championship and the Polish crowd started to like him only when he was scoring some goals on the international stage.If it wasn't for him,Poland wouldn't have been at the World Cup last year.

Alessandro Santos:This is one of my favorites,He's a Brazilian born,but because he's been linving in Japan for the last 8 years or so,he's considered as a Japanese...I mean come on!

Gerald Asamoah:He's Ghanaian,his father wanted him to play for the national team of Ghana but decided to play for Germany instead because he plays club football over there.Now I find his case very interesting because he probably made it to the final 23 players list for the World Cup because many Germans players missed the finals due to injury(Mehmet Scholl,Alexander Zickler,Joerg Heinrich).Played mostly as a sub at the finals last year.His international career his probably over since Germany have some fine upcoming youngsters such as Freddi Bobbic,Kuranyani and Rau.I would be very surprised if his name is held when the finals will be played in his "home country".This is very sad because Ghana is in need of players like him as they failed to qualify for the African Nations Cup and are looking for a World Cup finals berth for their first time.

George Boateng:From Ghana...plays for the Netherlands......what is it with those Ghanaian players...

I think that you guys get the picture now.But my point is that,if a foreigh player is very good in the local championship of any country and never been capped by the country that he's really from,then naturalization comes in.So for example,if in the J-League(Japanese Championship) the best players are foreighers and never been capped,then the Japanese FA just have to naturalize them in order to have the strongest national team as possible with the local championship players which are not real Japaneses.What I'm saying is that it's way too easy for any FA to do and is not so good for the international game.It's okay to have some players from different parts of the world in the same team for club football,but not so good in international football...

And another example,I'm a very big fan of the Czech Republic,but I'm Canadian!So all I have to do is to go to Czech Republic,live there for 3 years or so and poof I'm now a Czech???It's way too easy...What's next,an American player playing for the North Korean national team???


Don't get me wrong,for some players it's very understandable since they left there native home country when there were very young,OR when a country as been a former colony of another country,example:Netherlands Antilles and Netherlands(Edgar Davids,Clarence Seedorf).

Please tell me what you think about naturalization of players.

I can just speak for the two Germans you mentioned.

Klose is son of of a Polish soccer pro (Auxerre) and a Polish handball pro. They moved to Germany when Miroslav was very young and he spend 2/3 of his childhood in Germany having two passports. Polish NT Coach Engel asked him to play for Poland, but Klose did not hesitate to turn the offer down as he felt more German.

Asamoah was born in Ghana. His Dad had to leave the country after a putsch and his mum followed one year after. Gerald grew up with his grandparents and was sent to Germany when his parents had the money to afford it. He spent 1/3 of his childhood in Germany, had the German passport and as far as I know never the offer to play for Ghana.

There are worse examples than this one though. Sean Dundee is one, who got a German passport just for playing NT and was never called up; in the matter Paulo Rink they at least found a German grandma. I agree that there should be firm rules, the NT is no shopping paradise for uncapped players. FIFA should create a list with criteria that determine the country a player is allowed to play in. Criteria could be: minimum of 5 years childhood or a total of 8 years must have been spent in this country; citizenship must be older than 5 years (this doesn't solve the colony-problems though), etc.

[lond2345]

fifa shouldnt allow naturalization PERIOD!

if you are good enough to be playing for a top team like germany and other countries than why not play for your own country which is the one in which you were born?

the bad thing is that in this case real germans, young up and coming germans get a place in the team stolen by them by foreign born players.

[olafgb]

Originally posted by lond2345


if you are good enough to be playing for a top team like germany and other countries than why not play for your own country which is the one in which you were born?


This is just the traditional Anglo-Saxon and South American way to determine a citizenship. The rest of the world determines citizenship by ancestory (?). You cannot put one legal system over the other - if someone is having multiple passports, then you can't stop him from choosing. Your system would lead to odd situations - why should e.g. hockey goalie Olaf Kölzig have to play for South Africa where he was born: he has two German parents and spend 17 1/2 of the 18 years of his childhood in Canada and has no relationship to South Africa!?!

[Prenn]

Originally posted by Soccerfever

Germany have some fine upcoming youngsters such as Freddi Bobbic,Kuranyani and Rau.

Freddi Bobic? He's 32....

[sinner78]

You should only be able to play for a country if you have at least one parent from that country or have been born in that country.
The rule which allows a player to play for a country just because they have one grandparent from that country is pathetic.
it allows players to dig up some long lost mystery relative to make them eligible.
countries like rep of ireland have milked that rule mercilessly.

[Elninho]

And I can speak for Alex. He moved to Japan when he was 14 years old. He started and finished high school in Japan, and speaks Japanese like a native (unlike Olisadebe who only speaks a little Polish, or Neuville who barely speaks enough German to get by). He certainly didn't go to Japan to play soccer... that should hardly be even a passing thought at that age. Japan is one of the most difficult countries to be naturalized in - it takes 7 years residency and demonstration of fluency in Japanese to even be considered, and Alex definitely met that requirement.

[Benedict XVI]

You get to play for a country if you're a citizen of that country and have not played for another country already.

It is not up to FIFA to determine how sovereign nations grant citizenship. US citizenship can be a serious pain in the butt to get; the Irish hand out passports like nobody's business. This is not FIFA's affair. It may be cheap, you may not like it, but nobody has the right to tell a player who is a citizen of a country that he can't play for that country's national team.

[strider026]

I thought that Klose parents were one German, one Polish and that he grew up in Germany.

[Casper]

Originally posted by Vicar


It is not up to FIFA to determine how sovereign nations grant citizenship.

And is not up to Soccerfever to tell players which team they feel like playing for.

The assertion that "Naturalization will KILL international football" would only be true if it starts to involve a majority of players on a club that starts to be really good. A couple of guys on Germany who have lived in the country for a decade, a few Brazilians on Japan, a David Regis on the US back line ... these are not shifting the balance of power. France has received some benefit of good players born on islands with their own teams choosing France instead, but given the relationship between France and Martinique or Guadalupe, no one seems to have a huge problem with this.

But I don't see any need to start telling Klose he can't play for the team of the country he's lived in for most of his life, just because YOU happen to think he's Polish. He's good, but fans aren't walking out of games en masse, angry that he's Polish by birth.

[Soccerfever]

Originally posted by Prenn
Freddi Bobic? He's 32....

Ooops my bad!

[denver_mugwamp]

People move from country to country. People from different countries marry each other. New countries spring up and old countries disappear. Certainly, if any country has benefitted from all this in soccer, it would be the US. What does it matter what country a player choses? You get one country (under most circumstances). Pick your country and good luck to you.

[Eagle Winged]

Africans playing/played for France:

Patrick Vieria (Senegal)
Marcel Desailly (Ghana)
Ibrahim Ba (Senegal)

Theres probably a load more, but these are the main ones i can remember.

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by Prenn
Freddi Bobic? He's 32....

Hehe, I liked that one too. Up and coming youngster Fredi Bobic!

[Germanshepherd]

Fredi is 31 but still fresh like a fawn in spring.

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by Elninho
... or Neuville who barely speaks enough German to get by...

Neuville's German isn't that bad. Not great either, but better than Paolo Rink's German!

In any case, I'm not sure that Neuville was ever naturalized. I was under the impression that he was German by birth but grew up in some other country (God knows what other country - my colleague and I always used to speculate on what his native language actually is). I'm sure Olaf knows the details.

[Mattbro]

Originally posted by Germanshepherd
Fredi is 31 but still fresh like a fawn in spring.

Very poetic!

[Germanshepherd]

Originally posted by Mattbro
I was under the impression that he was German by birth but grew up in some other country (God knows what other country - my colleague and I always used to speculate on what his native language actually is).

Oli Neuville was born in Switzerland. One of his parents is german. At his beginning here in Rostock he hardly spoke any geman, actually, but now its acceptable.

[Germanshepherd]

Originally posted by Mattbro
Very poetic!

Yeah, I am the new Rilke. :D