Gazidis Interview: Room For Improvement On Refs

[TimB4Last]

http://www.ussoccerplayers.com/exclusives/index.html?article_id=908

In the second part of our interview conducted last week with Major League Soccer’s Deputy Commissioner Ivan Gazidis, we spoke about the standards of refereeing in MLS and how it might improve, and how the poor bench behavior of some coaches and players isn’t helping the officials to do their jobs .

....

USSoccerPlayers: One thing that’s struck me lately, not just in MLS but around the world, is how much referees seem to be harassed now during games. Coaching staff are after the fourth official, everyone gets up and down off the bench at every little incident on the field. Is there any move on the league’s part to counter some of that and try to take the pressure off some of the referees?

Gazidis: We’ve been doing that on the field for a number of years, and I think we’ve been successful. In 2002 and 2003 we would see posses of players surrounding referees after quite routine decisions. We really went out and enlisted the support of our players in getting that under control, so that the referees could officiate in a more productive environment.

I think it’s been a very positive story the way our players have embraced that, and I think we have a different atmosphere on the field today than we had five years ago. But I do think you’re right in identifying bench behavior as something that needs to improve. There are a lot of histrionics on MLS benches.

We have taken some action in 2007 during the course of the year against that kind of behavior, but it’s something we’re going to have to really focus on, because it doesn’t make it easier for our officials to do their job well.

USSoccerPlayers: How did you feel about the standard of refereeing this year?

Gazidis: We had our first experience with the four full-time US Soccer officials. I think we still need to do more, I think we need more support systems for those full-time officials, and I think we’d like to see those full-time officials focusing more on just MLS games rather then the other responsibilities they have, including, most significantly, the international games, because we think the more focus there is on MLS, the better MLS officiating is going to be.

It was a qualified step forward, but there remain challenges, and there remains a lot to be done -- and we’re working with US Soccer to try and do that. I would say this -- I think everyone associated with the professional game is really open to ways to improve officiating. There’s not a closed mind on this, and there’s certainly not a closed door with US Soccer, and we continue to work on it.

USSoccerPlayers: Would you like to increase the number of professional referees?

Gazidis: I think that’s one step that could be taken. US Soccer is looking at a few different things. Another [step] is how they’re assigned -- from our perspective, candidly, we might like to have referees officiating in MLS that really don’t have international ambitions, because the way you referee an international game isn’t necessarily the way you referee a domestic league game. I also think more support for the referees in terms of reviewing their performances, in terms of what’s happening in the league week to week, and directions in the international game, would also be helpful.

By the way, there is a lot of this being done, and I think people would be surprised how much, in and around MLS and US Soccer officiating. Referees are assessed three ways, each referee has an individual mentor through the season, every game is assessed by a US Soccer referee assessor, and then MLS also assesses every game, so these referees are under extreme scrutiny, and there is accountability for performances -- referees don’t get assignments as a result of poor performances.

There’s an awful lot being done, but the solutions to improving officiating are not easy. And even if we had perfect officiating, people are going to say that US Soccer’s referees are terrible and inferior and incompetent. They say that in every country around the world.

The fact is that we’ve also got to be mature and recognise that we have a game that has two very strong characteristics. One, a lot of the calls are in the grey area of judgment. Most of the calls are in the grey area of judgment and could probably be called accurately either way, in many cases. Second, it’s a game that is decided by one or two moments. One goal often decides the entire game, unlike say, basketball. The fact that we have those two elements in the game is always going to mean that refereeing decisions are highly controversial, and subject to enormous criticism. As mature adults, we have to understand that and recognise it as something inherent in the game. Always will be.

....

{There's a bit more.}

[falcon.7]

...USSoccerPlayers: Would you like to increase the number of professional referees?

Gazidis: I think that’s one step that could be taken. US Soccer is looking at a few different things. Another [step] is how they’re assigned -- from our perspective, candidly, we might like to have referees officiating in MLS that really don’t have international ambitions, because the way you referee an international game isn’t necessarily the way you referee a domestic league game. I also think more support for the referees in terms of reviewing their performances, in terms of what’s happening in the league week to week, and directions in the international game, would also be helpful....

Ah yes, that's the solution - don't send our referees to do international games. That way we can indoctrinate them with whatever we want, and the rest of the world will continue to consider US referees second-rate. And then when they do get international games and have questionable performances, we can say "well, international games don't really matter to our refs. Our third-rate domestic league is more important to our referees".

It's so simple! :eek:

[nonya]

Absolutely! The MLS is a glorified kickball league with few passes strung together and does not resemble any international soccer at all. So pick out those people who just want to run after the ball, babysit the players, and yell at the people on the bench every time someone gets touched.

[MassachusettsRef]

Well, considering it is a requirement that FIFA Panel referees have to officiate in their domestic first division, Gazidis is either saying:

A) that he doesn't want any American referees on the International list or
B) that he doesn't want MLS to be the first-division in the United States

There literally is no other logical conclusion, other than the obvious one--that he's completely ignorant as to how things work in regards to international officiating. Which, of course, says quite a bit about a man in his position.

[USSF REF]

Well, considering it is a requirement that FIFA Panel referees have to officiate in their domestic first division, Gazidis is either saying:

A) that he doesn't want any American referees on the International list or
B) that he doesn't want MLS to be the first-division in the United States

There literally is no other logical conclusion, other than the obvious one--that he's completely ignorant as to how things work in regards to international officiating. Which, of course, says quite a bit about a man in his position.

Agreed.

However, I think he shows some insight when he says: The fact is that we’ve also got to be mature and recognise that we have a game that has two very strong characteristics. One, a lot of the calls are in the grey area of judgment. Most of the calls are in the grey area of judgment and could probably be called accurately either way, in many cases. Second, it’s a game that is decided by one or two moments. One goal often decides the entire game, unlike say, basketball. The fact that we have those two elements in the game is always going to mean that refereeing decisions are highly controversial, and subject to enormous criticism. As mature adults, we have to understand that and recognise it as something inherent in the game. Always will be.

[PVancouver]

I thought "the way you referee an international game isn’t necessarily the way you referee a domestic league game" was his most troubing point. What do you suppose he is implying?

[Alberto]

I thought "the way you referee an international game isn’t necessarily the way you referee a domestic league game" was his most troubing point. What do you suppose he is implying?


Well it's a question that should be asked again and again until he responds.

This is very troubling to think there should be a different standards applied to MLS and an international appointments.

[Midwest Ref]

Someone please cue Dr. Bob Evans :-) Seriously, what the league wants is for referees to ignore FIFA mandates that would lead to cautions and send offs. The league believes that the absence of players due to suspensions hurts the product and harms attendance. It is not an accident that MLS prefers non-FIFA list referees; the non-FIFA refs only have to satisfy one master--MLS. Look at the number of referees who have lost game assignments or even the opportunity of working in the league over the years because they applied the laws of the game too strictly for MLS' taste.

[taiandtk]

I thought "the way you referee an international game isn’t necessarily the way you referee a domestic league game" was his most troubing point. What do you suppose he is implying?

I think what he means is that you should follow the rules in International games, but not in Domestic Leagues.

Pretty soon you'll get to ADD a player after receiving a Red Card.

[Pierre Head]

Someone please cue Dr. Bob Evans :-) Seriously, what the league wants is for referees to ignore FIFA mandates that would lead to cautions and send offs. The league believes that the absence of players due to suspensions hurts the product and harms attendance. It is not an accident that MLS prefers non-FIFA list referees; the non-FIFA refs only have to satisfy one master--MLS. Look at the number of referees who have lost game assignments or even the opportunity of working in the league over the years because they applied the laws of the game too strictly for MLS' taste.

Too true, and well said. Actually the same applies to instructors and assessors who are no longer used by MLS for the same reasons, notably the aforementioned Dr. Evans!

[nsa]

Someone please cue Dr. Bob Evans :-) ...

http://fortheintegrityofsoccer.blogs.com/artandscienceofrefereeing/2007/12/bits-and-pieces.html

And to the "Big Soccer" reader who said “Cue Dr. Bob Evans”, I send my thanks. As you know, I didn’t need that cue, but I’m glad you thought I could contribute to the discussion!

[Englishref]

Some utterly bizarre things for this guy to say. It seems a very selfish attitude to me, but not one that's uncommon with people in power of most countries top leagues.

I can sort of see what he means about two different styles of refereeing from domestic to international games. We're possibly the worst for it. The PL is a very physical league, and so our referees referee as such, allowing that. When they referee for UEFA or FIFA, they completely change their style, and show far more cards than they would do in a PL game, and allow far less contact. Webb is a perfect example, he's unrecognisable when I've seen him referee a FIFA game. So I think this is what that guy's on about, rather than ignoring FIFA directives or such like.

[Alberto]

Some utterly bizarre things for this guy to say. It seems a very selfish attitude to me, but not one that's uncommon with people in power of most countries top leagues.

I can sort of see what he means about two different styles of refereeing from domestic to international games. We're possibly the worst for it. The PL is a very physical league, and so our referees referee as such, allowing that. When they referee for UEFA or FIFA, they completely change their style, and show far more cards than they would do in a PL game, and allow far less contact. Webb is a perfect example, he's unrecognisable when I've seen him referee a FIFA game. So I think this is what that guy's on about, rather than ignoring FIFA directives or such like.


Now ask yourself if this does not result at the international level in problems for all English National Teams? Players getting sent off, poor results and performance because the players now have to adapt their game to the international standard. It's the same crap as in the US only that hard physical challenges in the air are let go in England. In the US it's worse. Serious foul play many times only results in a caution.

[falcon.7]

Now ask yourself if this does not result at the international level in problems for all English National Teams? Players getting sent off, poor results and performance because the players now have to adapt their game to the international standard. It's the same crap as in the US only that hard physical challenges in the air are let go in England. In the US it's worse. Serious foul play many times only results in a caution.

Could this tolerance of foul play at the higher levels be the result of other American sports? We have American football (lots of contact) and hockey (slightly less contact). In relation to these two established sports, soccer has nearly no legal contact whatsoever. Maybe this is part of the American audience learning about soccer. The uniformed public does not understand that soccer is meant to be played with less contact than other traditional sports.

We expect there to be contact, hard hits and jibber-jabber during our sporting events. When an activity comes along that frowns on, or at least controls, such behavior, we do not understand it. And the issue is only exacerbated when the referees, players, and personnel promote the kind of play which we are experiencing.

The problem, I think, is that in an effort to generate fan base and money, MLS is promoting a style of game which they think the fans want to see, instead of a style of game which is intended to be played.

I could write tons more explaining this view, but I have to go do some indoor games (a.k.a. hockey with a ball).

[Alberto]

Falcon, it goes beyond that. It is a belief on the part of the MLS that the fans pay good money to see players (which they do, but it's too simplistic a view) and if referees take a hard line approach to serious foul play and violent conduct that the fans will be turned away because the stars will be sent off. This viewpoint fails to take into account the potential for serious injury to the players because misconduct is not sanctioned.

[campton]

We all BELIEVE FIRMLY IN ENFORCING ALL THE LAWS IN DOMESTIC LEAGUES! But we have a problem. If we ever want the MLS to be on a level as the Serie A, EPL, The football league, superliga, bundesliga; we will need to need to change our style of refereeing. Its a fact of life. I think in order to get our sport more succsessful is maybe a bit of americanizing. IT sounds aweful, i know, but it may be the only thing we can do. If beckham gets a second yellow and is suspended (on two soft ones?) the LA galaxy would lose so much money, as would the team they are versing. And if we ever wanna make the big bucks like the EPL referees do, we might have adapt our styles for our domestic league.

[USSF REF]

We all BELIEVE FIRMLY IN ENFORCING ALL THE LAWS IN DOMESTIC LEAGUES! But we have a problem. If we ever want the MLS to be on a level as the Serie A, EPL, The football league, superliga, bundesliga; we will need to need to change our style of refereeing. Its a fact of life. I think in order to get our sport more succsessful is maybe a bit of americanizing. IT sounds aweful, i know, but it may be the only thing we can do. If beckham gets a second yellow and is suspended (on two soft ones?) the LA galaxy would lose so much money, as would the team they are versing. And if we ever wanna make the big bucks like the EPL referees do, we might have adapt our styles for our domestic league.

That seems to be the "party line" for MLS...

What do you suggest we do to "americanize" the game?? I think we have seen MLS's other attempts to "Americanize" the game have failed (count-down timing, the 30 yard shoot out, etc) so what did you have in mind?

I think playing the same game as everyone else in the world is better than trying to be different, don't alienate fans who are soccer litterate. I also can't stand the idea of allowing star players to get away with offenses just to keep them in the game, that begets ugly worse play.

[campton]

That seems to be the "party line" for MLS...

What do you suggest we do to "americanize" the game?? I think we have seen MLS's other attempts to "Americanize" the game have failed (count-down timing, the 30 yard shoot out, etc) so what did you have in mind?

I think playing the same game as everyone else in the world is better than trying to be different, don't alienate fans who are soccer litterate. I also can't stand the idea of allowing star players to get away with offenses just to keep them in the game, that begets ugly worse play.


Currently, our only effort to make MLS as big as other leagues is bringing back 1 european star and then some washed up professionals (no disrespect for blanco, but i have a better beep test score than him).

I dont know how it is to be done, but i guess i understand where the guy being interviewed comes from. He wants the league to flourish and i guess he sees is that we must figure something out in the officiating standpoint in order to keep people in the stands.

And come on, there are ALWAYS different styles of officiating.

English refs: Tend to let more go. They let the guys play, its really only a foul unless its obvious or someone could get hurt.

German refs: Very involved in the game, tend to keep a tight grip on everyone. There is hardly a match to get out of hand.

Italian: Even though their league is not as strong, they always tend to be consistent on EVERYTHING. (i dont watch much Seria A)

Spanish: Very simliar to german.


Maybe its an adaptation of our "style". I think we need to have the FA lead us into a successful program for youth and higher level referee development.

[bluedevils]

...no disrespect for blanco, but i have a better beep test score than him.

He probably doesn't care!

Is your first touch as good as his?

[campton]

He probably doesn't care!

Is your first touch as good as his?


The fact of the matter is that the MLS's only attempt to put fans in seats is to bring up players who are past their prime. I do think if we want a successful league our officiating must be different from how an international game is to be called. I don't like it but i think thats just the way it'll have to be done for the near future.