Is Cesc Fabregas rightl

[squidward123]

So how come the Spaniards and their 'super-human' technical skills havent even been an international semi final since the 60s?
and how come the best spanish clubs are ram-packed with imports?

this is in the wrong forum.
somebody move this shiit to the premiership forum.

the point is that spanish players show excellent technical skills at some level, but not internationally against the BEST teams where they are outplayed and mentally blocked up inside.

english players have not shown these skills anywhere was his point. (i think).

[sinner78]

the point is that spanish players show excellent technical skills at some level, but not internationally against the BEST teams where they are outplayed and mentally blocked up inside.

english players have not shown these skills anywhere was his point. (i think).

ooooh the spanish and their 'excellent' technical skills have got a laughable international record. How the hell does advice from them help us??


Real madrid fielded only 3 spaniards this weekend.

http://soccernet-akamai.espn.go.com/match?id=226621&cc=5739

[johan neeskens]

they wouldn't, but the sort of players they'd be looking at wouldn't be the sort of players who'd be sitting on the bench.

Where else in the the world would someone like Steve Sidwell be offered £25,000 a week, let alone what Chelsea ended up offering him to have a subliminal career at Stamford Bridge?

That's a fair (and sad) point.

[johan neeskens]

Good Spanish players moving to the EPL and good Italian players moving outside of Seria A is something new. There has been a history of good English players playing abroad. The EPL is the richest league so there are less doing so now. Would Rush, Linekar and others play outside the EPL now? Probably not.

I'm not so sure about that. I don't imagine someone like Mcmanaman, for example, moving to Spain specifically for the money. There are players who move abroad for the challenge and the chance to experience a new and different (football) culture. Unfortunately for England fans, there aren't that many of them.

I think most successful English footballers in the premiership would worry about embarking on a foreign adventure for various reasons, inspired by the very weird love-hate relationship the English with all things continental. The way the English admire Wenger for his sophisticated tastes, for example, and at the same time hate him for it. Capello's getting that already as well. On the one hand they love that he's an art collector, on the other they'll whack him over the head with this fact as soon as he loses a game with England and call him a pretentious ponce (you've heard it here first).

[Seaside Mafia]

I'm not so sure about that. I don't imagine someone like Mcmanaman, for example, moving to Spain specifically for the money. There are players who move abroad for the challenge and the chance to experience a new and different (football) culture. Unfortunately for England fans, there aren't that many of them.

I think most successful English footballers in the premiership would worry about embarking on a foreign adventure for various reasons, inspired by the very weird love-hate relationship the English with all things continental. The way the English admire Wenger for his sophisticated tastes, for example, and at the same time hate him for it. Capello's getting that already as well. On the one hand they love that he's an art collector, on the other they'll whack him over the head with this fact as soon as he loses a game with England and call him a pretentious ponce (you've heard it here first).

I've long hoped that english players would start to play abroad again. The 80s/early 90s had quite a few: Keegan, Souness, Wilkins, Lawrie Cunningham, Hoddle, Waddle, Hately, Platt, Blissett, Woodcock, Francis, Rush, then Gascoigne, Ince, and McManaman. For the most part they did go for more money, as foreign clubs actually were paying higher salaries in the days before the Premier League and Sky financial dominance. However, you did get the feeling that they did it for the adventure as well - apart from Ian Rush!
These days English players still command premium prices and wages from English clubs. I still cannot see one financially sound reason for this. I can't see any market forces that require this to happen. If anything, with the influx of foreign players into the Prem, the cost of buying English players should have dropped.
I think that the principal reason why foreign clubs won't buy English players is that the players don't want to go, as they earn more than enough where they are. For this generation of player that's what matters. They're more under the influence of agents than ever before and there is no room for the romance of football. So long as this mind-set prevails, it makes no financial sense for foreign clubs to want to buy the spoilt tossers anyway.
However, I do predict that within 2 years Stephen Gerrard will have moved abroad.

[johan neeskens]

The irony of it all is of course that England players would potentially benefit from a move abroad as it may further improve their game which end of the day would bring them even more money.

[Prenn]

I've long hoped that english players would start to play abroad again. The 80s/early 90s had quite a few: Keegan, Souness, Wilkins, Lawrie Cunningham, Hoddle, Waddle, Hately, Platt, Blissett, Woodcock, Francis, Rush, then Gascoigne, Ince, and McManaman. For the most part they did go for more money, as foreign clubs actually were paying higher salaries in the days before the Premier League and Sky financial dominance. However, you did get the feeling that they did it for the adventure as well - apart from Ian Rush!
These days English players still command premium prices and wages from English clubs. I still cannot see one financially sound reason for this. I can't see any market forces that require this to happen. If anything, with the influx of foreign players into the Prem, the cost of buying English players should have dropped.
I think that the principal reason why foreign clubs won't buy English players is that the players don't want to go, as they earn more than enough where they are. For this generation of player that's what matters. They're more under the influence of agents than ever before and there is no room for the romance of football. So long as this mind-set prevails, it makes no financial sense for foreign clubs to want to buy the spoilt tossers anyway.
However, I do predict that within 2 years Stephen Gerrard will have moved abroad.

I hate to be pedantic but a few of those you mentioned aren't English.

[sinner78]

everything always come down to money.
People look after their own interests.
If a player has two offers on the table...
£15,000 a week at watford
or £5000 a week at Udinese.

most would take the watford deal rather than play for the better team.

[Seaside Mafia]

I hate to be pedantic but a few of those you mentioned aren't English.

This is true, but Scottish and Welsh players have been equally affected by the influx of foreigners, so I felt it right to include them. You'll notice I didn't include Tony Cascarino

[RichardL]

These days English players still command premium prices and wages from English clubs. I still cannot see one financially sound reason for this..
any player already playing in England will command higher fees and wages, not just english players. Part of that is because English clubs don't need the money as much, so it'll take more to make them sell. Clubs will pay over the odds because they feel more secure in the knowledge that the player won't have trouble adapting to the English game or being in England itself.

[M]

any player already playing in England will command higher fees and wages, not just english players. Part of that is because English clubs don't need the money as much, so it'll take more to make them sell. Clubs will pay over the odds because they feel more secure in the knowledge that the player won't have trouble adapting to the English game or being in England itself.

Or, in other words, it makes economic sense for them to pay more for these players.

[squidward123]

ooooh the spanish and their 'excellent' technical skills have got a laughable international record. How the hell does advice from them help us??


it doesn't...i was just clarifying what the other guy said.

the point is that it's not technical skills or the "british" attributes that win you things. Simply from a winning point of view I mean.

it's being able to execute one or both in each game better than the other team executes what they execute.

it just so happens the technical skills are done with far more confidence (and is sustained throughout 90 mins in heat) than what gerrard, lampard and co try to do for england, so everyone goes on about technique.

[CaptVimes]

it doesn't...i was just clarifying what the other guy said.

the point is that it's not technical skills or the "british" attributes that win you things. Simply from a winning point of view I mean.

it's being able to execute one or both in each game better than the other team executes what they execute.

it just so happens the technical skills are done with far more confidence (and is sustained throughout 90 mins in heat) than what gerrard, lampard and co try to do for england, so everyone goes on about technique.

Carlos Alberto disagrees with you.

"The most important thing that can happen to English players is that they improve their technique," Alberto, 63, said. "Technical skills like dribbling, good movement, the ability to pick a pass are key to breaking teams down - but you just don't see it when England play.

"They never change, they never improvise and they never improve. They put the high ball into the area and try to head it in."

Alberto believes there needs to be a complete rethink of their approach to the game. "England players need to change their mentality, the spirit with which they play football," he said. "Sometimes they play as if they do not feel the game. I hope they understand these things and try to change because every other country changed a long time ago."

I agree with Carlos 100%.

[thebigman]

futsal at an early age and approaching winning over skill later on in a childs footballing developement will make us more technical as a footballing nation

smaller games are bein g implemented and i fully expect within the next twn years our chicken with no head all out 4 4 2 will be replaced with a slower and slicker passing game

players dont have the capacity mentally now a days to move abroad, imagine rooney going to spain at 16 like cesc came to the uk and learning the language and being articulate in interviews?

education wise we suck at teaching about other culture and language, almsot every dutch person speaks great english, why cant more english kids speak a language more fluently?

im looking forward to the developement of the english school/training facility if they ever bother building it, hopefully it will put us closer to the likes of france, international record wise

[Seaside Mafia]

any player already playing in England will command higher fees and wages, not just english players. Part of that is because English clubs don't need the money as much, so it'll take more to make them sell. Clubs will pay over the odds because they feel more secure in the knowledge that the player won't have trouble adapting to the English game or being in England itself.

You're right.
Lee Bowyer, Rio Ferdinand, John Terry, Jermaine Pennant, Wayne Rooney, Keiron Dyer, Carlton Cole, Anton Ferdinand. All examples of English players who have no trouble being in England itself.;)

[squidward123]

Carlos Alberto disagrees with you.


If england can be physically stronger than the other team, and play like they did v/s israel at home v/s everyone for 90 mins without tiring who says they can't win?

that means they knock the other team out of their game. teams like germany and brazil will impose their game back on you but if you have the confidence to impose back stronger...

there's no predetermined thing which wins over the other.

hopefully it will put us closer to the likes of france, international record wise

actually england's WC record is better than france.

[jpick]

actually england's WC record is better than france.

i think he meant of more recent times. since 1982, france has had 2 euro titles, a wc title, a wc runner-up, and two wc semifinals. england in the same time frame has a euro semi and wc semi.

[squidward123]

i think he meant of more recent times. since 1982, france has had 2 euro titles, a wc title, a wc runner-up, and two wc semifinals. england in the same time frame has a euro semi and wc semi.

could have been a final and a final if it wasn't for... :D

[three lions]

could have been a final and a final if it wasn't for... :D

What's the point?

[squidward123]

What's the point?

nothing it only genuinely occured to me later on that both those were against germany