The enigma of Florida...

[Schwalker]

As an European with an interest in MLS I have always found the way MLS and Florida gets along a mystery.

According to a number of posters Florida don´t support their teams well, which might be true as far as I know.
But on the other hand, whenever the subject of say setting up a soccer camp or just having a week in the sun our European clubs zoom in on Florida, they regard it as ideal.
So we got MLS that clearly wants a Florida franchise..Garber himself have stated it several times. So far no big investor have emerged (to my knowledge) which is a bit of a disappointment but maybe the debacle with the two closed down teams haunts some people.

So how can Florida be regarded as both ideal and important by people in the business and simultaneously be reagarded as a lost cause by many BS posters?

[WhiteStar Warriors]

As an European with an interest in MLS I have always found the way MLS and Florida gets along a mystery.

According to a number of posters Florida don´t support their teams well, which might be true as far as I know.
But on the other hand, whenever the subject of say setting up a soccer camp or just having a week in the sun our European clubs zoom in on Florida, they regard it as ideal.
So we got MLS that clearly wants a Florida franchise..Garber himself have stated it several times. So far no big investor have emerged (to my knowledge) which is a bit of a disappointment but maybe the debacle with the two closed down teams haunts some people.

So how can Florida be regarded as both ideal and important by people in the business and simultaneously be reagarded as a lost cause by many BS posters?

Well 30,000+ attendance at RJ stadium for a U.S friendly game against Equador shows how much support their is for soccer in the area..
What if Brazil played or Argentina or England the stadium would sell-out

[VioletCrown]

As an European with an interest in MLS I have always found the way MLS and Florida gets along a mystery.

According to a number of posters Florida don´t support their teams well, which might be true as far as I know.
But on the other hand, whenever the subject of say setting up a soccer camp or just having a week in the sun our European clubs zoom in on Florida, they regard it as ideal.
So we got MLS that clearly wants a Florida franchise..Garber himself have stated it several times. So far no big investor have emerged (to my knowledge) which is a bit of a disappointment but maybe the debacle with the two closed down teams haunts some people.

So how can Florida be regarded as both ideal and important by people in the business and simultaneously be reagarded as a lost cause by many BS posters?

I think you've practically answered your own question.

Florida is important because it's the 7th largest metro area in the US. Assuming Philly happens, if Miami were added, then MLS would be in all of the top 8 US metro areas. Presumably, that's also the top 8 media markets, but I don't know where that data resides on the net.

It's regarded as a lost cause for a couple reasons: 1. the debacle that was the Fusion (though, sadly, that was primarly because of a shallow-pocketed owner); and 2. Florida teams being poorly supported in attendance.

Here's some stats:

MLB -- the two Florida teams are the very bottom:
29 Tampa Bay 17,148
30 Florida 16,919

I guess the above is what has folks down about Florida, because in the NFL, it's not so bad (this year's numbers, so far, which aren't much different from last year):

8 Miami 71,182
22 Tampa Bay 65,298 (but that's 99% capacity)

Similarly with the NBA. Last year, Miami #5 and Orlando #18. Only in the NHL are they low -- #25. But both Chicago and Washington are worse than them.

So, after a little research, I have to wonder myself why folks are so down on Florida.

[SoccerPrime]

Well MLS fans are jaded. They seem to think MLS "just failed" in Florida. But reality paints a different picture.

The Miami Fusion were owned by a single, wealthy but not mega-wealthy investor (Horrowitz). Who not only paid through the nose for a franchise (reportedly like $40 million in 1998) but also expected to turn the MLS team into a big money making business.

The final 2 strokes of death for the Fusion was that Horrorwitz invested even more of his money into remodelling Broward's Lockhart stadium into a decent soccer venue. Problem was, Lockhart was over 20 miles north of Miami, in a primarily non-Hispanic area (Latinos make up 50% of Miami metro). The final straw was that with all these investments, Horrorwitz decided to no longer invest in a good ticket office, hence there was no outreach to the Miami urban fans (again, mostly hispanics) and the attendance started to drop off for the Fusion. Even though at the time, the Fusion was one of the best MLS teams ever.

So in 2001, Horrorwitz informed MLS he was dropping out.

Meanwhile, in Tampa, the league decided to start a team in 1996 and hope eventually someone would buy it. No one ever did. And by 2001, they were the worse team in the history of MLS. But wait. Even though they sucked, they still had higher attendance than Miami, at least as good or better than Dallas, San Jose or KC. In fact their 2001 atendance average of 14,479 would place it in the top 5 of MLS today. 14,479, even though they sucked, got no help from the league, shoestring budget for players, coaches and a thin office staff. Oh and they played in the huge NFL stadium of RaymondJames Stadium.
MLS offered the team to NFL Bucs (and now ManU) owners the Glazers, but when the Glazers said yes, MLS turned around and then asked for $10 million for the club (no one gets into the board for free apparently). Glazers then said no.

So in 2001, with MLS hemoraging money, it was a easy decision to can Miami (owner wanted out) and Tampa (no owner).

And that my friends, is the story of MLS in Florida. ;)

[Schwalker]

But apparently the goal of MLS is to have a franchise in Florida...rather soon?

[SoccerPrime]

But apparently the goal of MLS is to have a franchise in Florida...rather soon?

The goal of MLS is to make money and be a commerical success both on and off the field. Increasing a national footprint will allow them to gain a greater TV audience for their national TV exposure. Florida, with about 18,000,000 people, is probably the biggest hole in their national footprint. Therefore if they (MLS) can get a investor and gov't to bring a team/stadium into the league in Florida, I think MLS would be happy with that.

Does that make sense?

[Schwalker]

The goal of MLS is to make money and be a commerical success both on and off the field. Increasing a national footprint will allow them to gain a greater TV audience for their national TV exposure. Florida, with about 18,000,000 people, is probably the biggest hole in their national footprint. Therefore if they (MLS) can get a investor and gov't to bring a team/stadium into the league in Florida, I think MLS would be happy with that.

Does that make sense?


Well, yes...But media alone can´t make a team a success (it might be good for the league though) so will soccerfans in Florida attach themselves to a new team or will there be a wait and see attitude?

Having been burned twice must have upset a lot of potential fans...

[SoccerPrime]

Yes its quite likely. Will fans come out? Probably. But MLS getting a team in heavily Latin and populated state will only help their cause with national broadcasters like ESPN.

[Schwalker]

Yes its quite likely. Will fans come out? Probably. But MLS getting a team in heavily Latin and populated state will only help their cause with national broadcasters like ESPN.

Bugger the media, sometimes they are just trouble...:p

Will the team itself prosper, is Florida a fertile ground for a new MLS team?

MLS as a league is still just learning to walk upright and despite the official MLS strategy which target TV-contracts as the way out of dependence on just attendances it´s a tough nut to crack.
That said shirt-sponsors and stadium naming is becoming more popular right now and as long as most MLS teams are run on a shoestring budget these deals might be what finally makes a team profitable...

[SoccerPrime]

Exactly. If MLS can increase its footprint, then those teams, like a potential MLS team in Miami, can get even larger shirt sponsors and hence be in better shape overall.

[pb9000]

Will the team itself prosper, is Florida a fertile ground for a new MLS team?

I think so, if done right. They need to really reach out to the latin community. Bringing a big name South American player right from the beginning would be a big help.

Some of the expansion teams don't want to bring in DPs in the beginning, but down here I think you need to. It's all about the hype and the sports scene down here needs it.

[Schwalker]

Ok...Cheers for the info everyone!

[Old Man!]

I think so, if done right. They need to really reach out to the latin community. Bringing a big name South American player right from the beginning would be a big help.

Some of the expansion teams don't want to bring in DPs in the beginning, but down here I think you need to. It's all about the hype and the sports scene down here needs it.

Someone like Carlos Valerrama circa 1998? :p

[pb9000]

Someone like Carlos Valerrama circa 1998? :p

No, someone who does more than walk around on the field and makes the occasional great pass. And younger too.

[Fireshnake]

Yes its quite likely. Will fans come out? Probably. But MLS getting a team in heavily Latin and populated state will only help their cause with national broadcasters like ESPN.
I absolutely second that.

Something I always wondered was, how was the game scheduling back in the days of MLS FLA teams? Since the MLS season starts April and ends in Nov. they play through the ruff months, regarding weather conditions(read: hott and HUUUUMID). Was that ever to be considered a disadvantage in terms of coaching/training a side? I mean it can still be in the freaking 90s Fahrenheit/high 30s Celsius at 8.00 pm in the evening. Coming from Germany I couldn't believe how they could perform on such high and professional level.

[pb9000]

I absolutely second that.

Something I always wondered was, how was the game scheduling back in the days of MLS FLA teams? Since the MLS season starts April and ends in Nov. they play through the ruff months, regarding weather conditions(read: hott and HUUUUMID). Was that ever to be considered a disadvantage in terms of coaching/training a side? I mean it can still be in the freaking 90s Fahrenheit/high 30s Celsius at 8.00 pm in the evening. Coming from Germany I couldn't believe how they could perform on such high and professional level.

They played alot of day games in the beginning of the Fusion, but quickly learned that night games were better for players and fans. I think the only disadvantage is to the visiting team. The home team trains day in and day out in the humidity. It's part of the conditioning. If they can play summer games in Dallas with over 100 degrees, then they can play here in Miami.

[Rowdies4ever]

So how can Florida be regarded as both ideal and important by people in the business and simultaneously be reagarded as a lost cause by many BS posters?Because many BS posters are f_cking retards and idiots who repeat the same "common sense" that all the other f_cking retards and idiots on BS are saying; whereas people in the business, whatever their other faults, are actually responsible for producing results, so they occasionally do a bit of research and thinking before they make any big decisions.

You also need to remember that pro soccer history in Florida does not begin and end with the two MLS clubs in Tampa Bay and Miami. The Tampa Bay Rowdies were huge in the 1970's and early 80's, and were one of the best drawing clubs in the NASL, averaging close to 30,000 and often selling more than 50,000 or 60,000 for big games (I know, I was at a few of those games). The Ft. Lauderdale Strikers had pretty respectable attendance, too. And remember, this was back when pro soccer was still brand new in Florida.

The Tampa Bay Mutiny were run by MLS; badly run. The Miami Fusion had an actual owner, but were badly run too. In spite of that, the Mutiny and Fusion really weren't that poorly supported; there were worse clubs in MLS that were not shut down. Florida was just unlucky, it wasn't due to anything wrong with Florida soccer fans. But you can't convince a lot of the kiddies on Big Soccer, they think that "pro soccer was tried in Florida and failed" and they'll continue to believe that long after MLS has returned to Florida and is successful.