Cauldron Seating and Questions

[RobbHeineman]

Hi,

I've been watching the message traffic here and on the blogs and am a bit curious/concerned. I think it probably makes sense to get together with the Cauldron, leadership and members (and any potential new members) to talk about sections, growth plans, 2010 stadium designs, etc. I'm going to propose that we get together down at the Swope Soccer Center in early January to talk about it. Are you guys willing? If so, rsvp to the leaders and we'll get a headcount and meet. I'd like to hear what you're thinking...rh

[Wizardscharter]

Thanks for the offer, I'm sure that will be received well. Happy Holidays to you.

[szazzy]

Thanks for the offer, I'm sure that will be received well. Happy Holidays to you.

A question and answer session sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure we'll get enough participation from newer members or those not on Bigsoccer unless there's a real push from the existing Cauldron members on here to get other people involved.

I think a meeting that included ways that both the FO and the group can work together to help grow the Cauldron would be beneficial to everyone.

Would you try to be there Dave to offer your suggestions? I'd rather avoid a tirade after the fact about how Cauldron leadership got bent over, when even if you can't be there in person, you have ample time to get the questions asked that you feel need to be asked.

[kuhnscoot]

A question and answer session sounds like a good idea, but I'm not sure we'll get enough participation from newer members or those not on Bigsoccer unless there's a real push from the existing Cauldron members on here to get other people involved.

I think a meeting that included ways that both the FO and the group can work together to help grow the Cauldron would be beneficial to everyone.

Would you try to be there Dave to offer your suggestions? I'd rather avoid a tirade after the fact about how Cauldron leadership got bent over, when even if you can't be there in person, you have ample time to get the questions asked that you feel need to be asked.

I don't know if the leadership has added to the email list they had last year, but if they had, sending a blast out through that might not be a bad idea to get the word out...

[StuBentley]

I don't know if the leadership has added to the email list they had last year, but if they had, sending a blast out through that might not be a bad idea to get the word out...

We currently have around 150 on the mailing list now so I'm pretty sure a lot of those are outside of the BS world. Once plans are finalized, an email blast/newsletter will go out announcing this. But probably not until after another super-secret price negotiation session...because I guess I missed the last one.

[KCFutbol]

We currently have around 150 on the mailing list now so I'm pretty sure a lot of those are outside of the BS world. Once plans are finalized, an email blast/newsletter will go out announcing this. But probably not until after another super-secret price negotiation session...because I guess I missed the last one.

You and me, both.

[KCRovert]

I don't know if the leadership has added to the email list they had last year, but if they had, sending a blast out through that might not be a bad idea to get the word out...

And Sam has his e-mail list of people who purchased Cauldron tickets last season that he can send our e-mail blast to as well. We just need to send him a copy of the blast to forward out.

[Wizardscharter]

Would you try to be there Dave to offer your suggestions? I'd rather avoid a tirade after the fact about how Cauldron leadership got bent over, when even if you can't be there in person, you have ample time to get the questions asked that you feel need to be asked.Here's the playbook gents.

Suggestions are not really the goal here. Control of a good working relationship is. Often the two mesh appropriately. You can define "working" however you like. Regardless, my questions are pretty clear on the other threads.

The break-even pricing appears like a reach at best. I'm interested in seeing the numbers completed. What are the actual costs post-build rather than the projection today? What %age is CAB picking up (and when) for an addition that will be there forever and CAB's to profit from all but 36 dates maximum? Sam has informed me many times that revenue is lost through sharing. I'd like to know how it's lost once all cash flows have flowed when KC has been and will be receiving MLS revenue sharing on balance?

The best appearance is OnGoal is offering The Cauldron break even seating at no profit as has been clearly stated. The worst is that that isn't true and the 2 years at CAB will be a loss due to limited capacity, so make up ground where possible.

Robb is concerned (his words), but he wants to talk about stadium plans, growth, and sections? These all seem like things pretty much already communicated, no? Those things are neither of a concern nor meeting-worthy. So, why the meeting?

Unruffle feathers, solve discord, move on, etc. That seems meeting worthy. If it can end with a cool artist's rendering of the new digs to delight everyone, fantastic.

I'm all for feather stroking and communication. Many good things can result from that. I like Robb and OnGoal, but a meeting isn't needed to have the questions anwsered nor to be reminded that the tickets are $299. Details bearing out break-even seating can be offered here. That's me, others may have other concerns worthy of a sit-down.

The important thing is, we would all like cheaper seats. If the meeting isn't about that, all due respect to Robb reaching out as he felt he should, then maybe the Cauldron's gas money would be better spent getting to KCK in support of our guys.

Make no mistake, Robb has had this meeting before many, many times. Clients get unhappy, normally not unhappy enough to actually go elsewhere. In our case we can't go elsewhere. My guess is Robb will do very well in this meeting.

Gotta go, time to go to KCI.

[szazzy]

a whole lot of words

So I take it that's a no. You wouldn't even list out your questions in a more readable form, but rather have them sift through your posts to find what they are? Surprising. It's not worth a sit down, but it's worth a small novella.

[Sabotage11]

....It's not worth a sit down, but it's worth a small novella.

This one of the few posts I have ever truly laughed out loud at.

Reptastic.

[slashersfc]

So I take it that's a no. You wouldn't even list out your questions in a more readable form, but rather have them sift through your posts to find what they are? Surprising. It's not worth a sit down, but it's worth a small novella.

Of course not, Jeff... It's much easier to snipe/bitch than actually do something.... :(

It's actually really disappointing, because I think he brings up some good questions. Unfortunately, it appears that his priorities are not to get those questions answered as much as it is to try to subvert the current leadership group.


Hi,

I've been watching the message traffic here and on the blogs and am a bit curious/concerned. I think it probably makes sense to get together with the Cauldron, leadership and members (and any potential new members) to talk about sections, growth plans, 2010 stadium designs, etc. I'm going to propose that we get together down at the Swope Soccer Center in early January to talk about it. Are you guys willing? If so, rsvp to the leaders and we'll get a headcount and meet. I'd like to hear what you're thinking...rh

Rob, thank you for offering to meet with us and answer any questions that we might have. I am glad to see that the growth of the Cauldron is a priority of ownership, and I look forward to meeting.

[ojsgillt]

I think what dave is trying to say here is that from time to time these meetings are just lip service to make us feel like we are important and our concerns are being listened to just to keep us content. All the while the FO will do what is in their best interest.

The questions he has still has to be deciphered.

[SombraAla]

... (stuff here)
Here's my question - have you been to any of the meetings between the Cauldron and OnGoal? Also, what would it take for you to believe that they aren't out to just mollify us, that they are actually interested in a 'working relationship'.

It would seem disingenuous to me if you said "lower Cauldron prices", not only because I believe you would then harp on the fact that the original price was, in fact, trying to take a profit from us, but also because not everyone believes that they could even do so without taking a loss on the situation. Unless of course you feel that it's their duty to provide cheap, safe and good quality seats to you regardless of how much it costs them.

I also find it somewhat pretentious that you feel that you get to decide not only what but where the discussion should take place. "Details bearing out break-even seating can be offered here." As if you are somehow owed a detailed explanation about how the entire thing shakes out. Perhaps they should just send you a copy of their books so you can see how everything adds up. Better yet, they could just send you the originals so you can make corrections and tell them where they got it wrong. Also, take a look around - do you see other teams' owners posting on BigSoccer? Detailing out what goes into their ticket prices?

Now I'm all for a healthy dose of skepticism, and by no means do I blindly believe that just because they say that they want to work with us they really are going to answer our questions and act on our comments, but at least I'm going to give them the chance and meet with them when they offer, ask them my questions and see what we get back. That doesn't seem that hard to me... and you ought not be worried about being bewitched by their charming smile at least.

Truly, it's nothing personal, and as it's been said before - it would be good to have someone who thinks of the questions you do to be there to ask them. If nothing else, show us with your questions and their answers that you are right about the whole thing... but at least come willing to accept that you could be wrong...

I would also say you should consider that there are some things that you won't 'get' to know - like the specifics behind the Cauldron pricing and bleacher construction. I'm surprised you think that they're going to disclose any type of financial information publically, just over the internet on a message board, even if they wanted to, especially when multiple other private entities are involved which also may not want the details of their transactions and agreements announced to everyone and anyone - all because someone doesn't believe them. If I were a business man, I wouldn't do it on principle - even if it didn't 'cost' me anything. Believe them or don't believe them - but don't expect them to fall all over themselves trying to sate your curiosity.

[ojsgillt]

Here's my question - have you been to any of the meetings between the Cauldron and OnGoal? Also, what would it take for you to believe that they aren't out to just mollify us, that they are actually interested in a 'working relationship'.

It would seem disingenuous to me if you said "lower Cauldron prices", not only because I believe you would then harp on the fact that the original price was, in fact, trying to take a profit from us, but also because not everyone believes that they could even do so without taking a loss on the situation. Unless of course you feel that it's their duty to provide cheap, safe and good quality seats to you regardless of how much it costs them.

I also find it somewhat pretentious that you feel that you get to decide not only what but where the discussion should take place. "Details bearing out break-even seating can be offered here." As if you are somehow owed a detailed explanation about how the entire thing shakes out. Perhaps they should just send you a copy of their books so you can see how everything adds up. Better yet, they could just send you the originals so you can make corrections and tell them where they got it wrong. Also, take a look around - do you see other teams' owners posting on BigSoccer? Detailing out what goes into their ticket prices?

Now I'm all for a healthy dose of skepticism, and by no means do I blindly believe that just because they say that they want to work with us they really are going to answer our questions and act on our comments, but at least I'm going to give them the chance and meet with them when they offer, ask them my questions and see what we get back. That doesn't seem that hard to me... and you ought not be worried about being bewitched by their charming smile at least.

Truly, it's nothing personal, and as it's been said before - it would be good to have someone who thinks of the questions you do to be there to ask them. If nothing else, show us with your questions and their answers that you are right about the whole thing... but at least come willing to accept that you could be wrong...

I would also say you should consider that there are some things that you won't 'get' to know - like the specifics behind the Cauldron pricing and bleacher construction. I'm surprised you think that they're going to disclose any type of financial information publically, just over the internet on a message board, even if they wanted to, especially when multiple other private entities are involved which also may not want the details of their transactions and agreements announced to everyone and anyone - all because someone doesn't believe them. If I were a business man, I wouldn't do it on principle - even if it didn't 'cost' me anything. Believe them or don't believe them - but don't expect them to fall all over themselves trying to sate your curiosity.

couldn't have said it better. Except for the , but at least come willing to accept that you could be wrong, part. That is fairly-tale world stuff right there.

[the_cyclones]

couldn't have said it better. Except for the , but at least come willing to accept that you could be wrong, part. That is fairly-tale world stuff right there.

Well ... for the next 2 years, we will be a twister away from OZ...

[KC Salty]

I'd love to attend such a session.

[Wizardscharter]

So I take it that's a no. You wouldn't even list out your questions in a more readable form, but rather have them sift through your posts to find what they are? Surprising. It's not worth a sit down, but it's worth a small novella.Sry, Jeff. I'm happy to PM them to you if needed. Thought they were fairly clear, my mistake.

Of course not, Jeff... It's much easier to snipe/bitch than actually do something.... :(Stealing my line?!? :)

Anyway, I did do something. I asked questions.
It's actually really disappointing, because I think he brings up some good questions. Unfortunately, it appears that his priorities are not to get those questions answered as much as it is to try to subvert the current leadership group.As for subverting current leadership. My only reason for doing that would be if I had interest in replacing someone myself. That isn't the case.

My interests are in elected people always being more interested in the group than their own ego. I'm interested in cheaper tickets always. I'm interested in a blue stadium. Occasionally, I'm have interst in finding the bottom of a screwdriver.

That's it.
I think what dave is trying to say here is that from time to time these meetings are just lip service to make us feel like we are important and our concerns are being listened to just to keep us content. All the while the FO will do what is in their best interest. Yeah.

Here's my question - have you been to any of the meetings between the Cauldron and OnGoal?No, mostly becasue I have not been able. Partially I suppose becasue I wasn't aware of an open invite.
Also, what would it take for you to believe that they aren't out to just mollify us, that they are actually interested in a 'working relationship'.I know they are interested in a working relationship. All the easier to get things done.

I also find it somewhat pretentious that you feel that you get to decide not only what but where the discussion should take place. "Details bearing out break-even seating can be offered here." They offered "break even" I didn't ask for that statement. Now that an employee of OnGoal made the statement, shouldn't they be able to back it up when asked? It's been almost a week of silence so far unless something has been posted in elsewhere I have not seen.

Truly, it's nothing personal, and as it's been said before - it would be good to have someone who thinks of the questions you do to be there to ask them. I honestly didn't consider that. Please understand it isn't often I'm told in any way that voicing my view is appreciated. :)

That said, My only personal interest is getting answers to the questions and verifying them. This only to know that The Cauldron is or is not being lied to. I can't see where a meeting is necessary for that, sepecially given these threads and Robb's past willingness to avoid meetings at simply post within.

I would also say you should consider that there are some things that you won't 'get' to know...I have considered that. Mostly the reason OnGoal might have for keeping that info secret is that they misrepresented something.

We have stadium numbers for 3 trails complex that dwarf considerably any possible outlandish number for the CAB addition. So why hide such a small thing?

[SamPierron]

Absent a spreadsheet, contract and receipts, then, you are perfectly willing to accuse David Ficklin of lying about it?

[KCFutbol]

I'm not at liberty to disclose the actual numbers, (and maybe I shouldn't even be saying this) but suffice to say the terracing project is an expensive one.

There are numerous reasons for this, it's an addition to an existing structure, it's a small project (there is no economy of scale), it's a 'fast-track' project, and it's being done in an inopportune time of the year.

So WC, I can't stand by and let you convict by innuendo. OnGoal is certainly not being disingenuous about the relative high cost of the terracing.

[Merlin172]

Lots of words.

So WC, why wouldn't you attend such a meeting personally?