Greatest Modern Player ??

[kingkong1]

And he still doesn't get it.You didn't get it.

GT was just teasing you.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

It's good to see you (a) know nothing about aesthetics, and (b) chose to cherry pick the few occasions when Zidane has been a clutch player but conveniently ignored all of the times when he has not. You need to spend less time formatting and more time on the actual content of your posts.

[Seaside Mafia]

Zidane!
Some people claim that he is overrated, but I beg to differ. He plays the game with grace and honor (other than WC2006 when Materazzi teased him for the whole game). He plays an important role in France success, if you watch the games you will probably remember that he makes more than 200 successful passes per game for France.

I will come back after Euro 2008, and hopefully I can put C. Ronaldo on this topic. He is the most exciting player to watch in today's game! He dribbles, he scores, he runs like a Ferrari, I hope he will have great success in Euro 2008 so the nay-sayers can be quiet and enjoy the excitement of watching Ronaldo play.

What I particularly recall about France with Zidane is that their strikers couldn't buy a goal although to be fair, they did win the world cup without strikers? I also recall a game only a couple of years ago when Zidane made a goal for Henry and a pundit mentioned that that was the first time that Zidane had ever put him in to score.
I've always seen it as part of the role of midfield players to set up the strikers. Zidane's France team were notoriously inept at that, and it always made me wonder why, as in that team even Guivarche should have been scoring regularly..

[kingkong1]

It's good to see you (a) know nothing about aesthetics, and (b) chose to cherry pick the few occasions when Zidane has been a clutch player but conveniently ignored all of the times when he has not. You need to spend less time formatting and more time on the actual content of your posts.Teso,

Explain to me please why I know nothing about aesthetics, and don't just state that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I think that, in 1st place, when one's advocating a theory, one should bring, just to give the good example, numbers, arguments, statistics, pieces of evidence to the discussion!...

But all you give is 'advice'!...

All you say is 'that's wrong', 'that's nonsense' and don't explain why!...

With all that stern advising ('you need', 'you must') & black garments of yours, you gotta be a priest.

Amen.

In your post, however, after letters a) and b) you forgot letter c), which I'll utter just to please you, in the form of a proverb:

'There are cherries that deserve to be picked'...

Of course that the ideal, in the case of Zidane, should be:

'Strawberry fields forever'...(man, now I think I took an acid! Will JPick 'understand' me?..)

But Zidane is just a great player (the greatest for me in the last 15 years), not a Pelé (the greatest in the last 150) ;) ...

[Kulspruta]

C'mon, what about Ronaldo and Romário?

[kingkong1]

C'mon, what about Ronaldo and RomárioZidane as a team man was superior to them (and also great ability and could score).

Ronaldo (a great 'rompedor') and (specially) Romário were geniuses of the area. Of course the ideal would be to have all of them together.

Rivaldo and Riquelme as mids got somewhat close.

And if Ronaldinho kept playing from 2002 on in the same level, probably I'd be in doubt.

I still think he's got a good chance to bounce back till 2010 though.

[Moishe]

What I particularly recall about France with Zidane is that their strikers couldn't buy a goal although to be fair, they did win the world cup without strikers? I also recall a game only a couple of years ago when Zidane made a goal for Henry and a pundit mentioned that that was the first time that Zidane had ever put him in to score.
I've always seen it as part of the role of midfield players to set up the strikers. Zidane's France team were notoriously inept at that, and it always made me wonder why, as in that team even Guivarche should have been scoring regularly..

You touch on a good point with Zidane and France. The French attack was pretty weak with respect to the scoring record of the strikers. I also remember a commentator making a big deal when Zidane put through Henry and how shocking it was to be the first gol b/w the two. The truth is that Zidane gets all the credit for Les Bleu yet it was always the defense that carried those sides.

I personally think Zidane was a brilliant player but more so because of the players around him both at Real and Juve. Take away all the talent and he hasn't done much for his teams. Just my opinion and King1 send a couple of doses of acid my way, you seem to be having a good time:D

[kingkong1]

You touch on a good point with Zidane and France. The French attack was pretty weak with respect to the scoring record of the strikers. I also remember a commentator making a big deal when Zidane put through Henry and how shocking it was to be the first gol b/w the two. The truth is that Zidane gets all the credit for Les Bleu yet it was always the defense that carried those sides.

I personally think Zidane was a brilliant player but more so because of the players around him both at Real and Juve. Take away all the talent and he hasn't done much for his teams. Just my opinion and King1 send a couple of doses of acid my way, you seem to be having a good time:DI said he in my opinion was the best in the last 15 years, what frankly is not say much for who goes to stadiums since 1958 like me.

(And here, believe me, I'm not bragging: getting old is nothing to brag about :D)

If we extend however that range to 25 years or 30 years he's gonna be behind (sometimes way behind) players like Zico, Maradona, Platini, Ardiles, Falcão, Pasarella and others; if we try to go farther, then Zidane will become only an excellent player like so many and will (honourably it's true) vanish in the dust of history.

Besides, the last 15 years - and that's a paradox, since it's the most millionaire era of football association in history - is one of the poorest in truly great geniuses and great teams, what simply proves that money and football necessarilly are not in a direct correspondence.

It's within this context - let's say, a transitional moment in world football - that I see Zidane as the best 'modern' player, although I don't see anything modern in an epoch in which defensivism - the arm of the mediochres - prevails over offensive conceptions.

Bet in the future though: Africa 2010 & Brazil 2014, I hope, will provide a new light at the end of the tunnel.

As far as the acid, Moishe, how about one or two high pressure pills :eek: ...

[babaorum]

You touch on a good point with Zidane and France. The French attack was pretty weak with respect to the scoring record of the strikers. I also remember a commentator making a big deal when Zidane put through Henry and how shocking it was to be the first gol b/w the two. The truth is that Zidane gets all the credit for Les Bleu yet it was always the defense that carried those sides.



It is true for WC98 only, mainly due to the fact Guivarch and Dugarry were inept at scoring goals at the international stage. But Henry (more than 35 goals), Trezeguet, Djorkaeff (around 30 goals each) and to a lesser extent Wiltord (more than 20 goals) all had excellent scoring records during Zidane's carreer with France. Above all as a playmaker Zidane actually made many goals for them. He strangely delivered only one assist to Henry but guess what ? He assisted a record of 23 goals to the other players -3 more than Platini- and set up many more by his swift decisions, passes and ball controls that created gaps in the defenses... Not to mention he also scored himself quite a few ones. So claiming that 'it was always the defense that carried those sides' or that Zidane was 'inept at setting up the strikers' as another guy posted is going too far (watch again France vs England 99' between many other games if you don't believe that).

[phil80]

It is true for WC98 only, mainly due to the fact Guivarch and Dugarry were inept at scoring goals at the international stage. But Henry (more than 35 goals), Trezeguet, Djorkaeff (around 30 goals each) and to a lesser extent Wiltord (more than 20 goals) all had excellent scoring records during Zidane's carreer with France. Above all as a playmaker Zidane actually made many goals for them. He strangely delivered only one assist to Henry but guess what ? He assisted a record of 23 goals to the other players -3 more than Platini- and set up many more by his swift decisions, passes and ball controls that created gaps in the defenses... Not to mention he also scored himself quite a few ones. So claiming that 'it was always the defense that carried those sides' or that Zidane was 'inept at setting up the strikers' as another guy posted is going too far (watch again France vs England 99' between many other games if you don't believe that).
Exactly, to claim Zidane did not provide the forwards enough is just foolish, and as for Henry he was always better with Arsenal than for the French.

[Moishe]

It is true for WC98 only, mainly due to the fact Guivarch and Dugarry were inept at scoring goals at the international stage. But Henry (more than 35 goals), Trezeguet, Djorkaeff (around 30 goals each) and to a lesser extent Wiltord (more than 20 goals) all had excellent scoring records during Zidane's carreer with France. Above all as a playmaker Zidane actually made many goals for them. He strangely delivered only one assist to Henry but guess what ? He assisted a record of 23 goals to the other players -3 more than Platini- and set up many more by his swift decisions, passes and ball controls that created gaps in the defenses... Not to mention he also scored himself quite a few ones. So claiming that 'it was always the defense that carried those sides' or that Zidane was 'inept at setting up the strikers' as another guy posted is going too far (watch again France vs England 99' between many other games if you don't believe that).

France in the World Cup from 1998-2006, EuroCup 1996-2004 and the Confederations Cup 2001-2003 averaged less than two gols a game, some how that doesn't strike me as impressive not offensively anyhow. What is impressive is that with that scoring record they were able to win two Confeds, one Euro and One World Cup. France owes all their credit to the defense plain and simple. Of course that's my opinion and you are more than welcome to disagree.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

-3 more than Platini-

Zidane definitely made those 36 additional caps count.

[O Fenômeno]

Teso will forever be on ZIDANE'S jock...it's unhealthy....and sickening..damn dude..let it go...

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Good player but overhyped beyond belief, usually based on nothing else than aesthetics. Of course I'm just your resident hater so ignore me.

[jpick]

I always thought more of zidane's value personally was in his ability to drop deep and hold possession and spread play, like in the second half against italy in the world up final when he was almost impossible to dispossess or against brazil in the world cup quarters. those things can't and don't go on a stat sheet, but he seemed to me, to be a master at that, and it is vitally important. a true director of play, and in fact, since he would drop deeper at times, that would even affect his stat sheet negatively.

I don't know, i respect teso and many of the other posters (like tribune, who took up the anti-zidane case very well and he is a very knowledgeable, if not incredibly arrogant, poster), but i still think of zidane as a virtuoso and one of the best players of this era.

just my opinion.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

I would have Riquelme over Zidane and I feel they are very similar in some respects like their style of play and their approach to the game. You have touched on one of the reasons why above. Do you have any thoughts on the pair of them?

[jpick]

I would have Riquelme over Zidane and I feel they are very similar in some respects like their style of play and their approach to the game. You have touched on one of the reasons why above. Do you have any thoughts on the pair of them?

riquelme is very close in style to me. people compare zidane to guys like totti or ronaldinho or rivaldo, but those aren't really good comparisons even if all are #10s. i think riquelme is close in style and i rate riquelme very high as well (plus he still has a lot left in the tank career-wise for club and country, so it is not fair too him to compare careers yet, but wth, i'll do it anyways), and as of this moment, I would have zidane ahead, but it is close. of course, riquelme could put in another half-decade of brilliance in south america and i might re-think that.

but yeah, two similar players, almost impossible to dispossess even though they are pretty slow, can switch play and control the tempo, and yes, even though you hate it, easy on the eye. :p

riquelme is probably a little more dangerous in the final 25 meters (and he definitely has the edge in set pieces), but i think zidane has the edge in ability to dictate and influence from the middle of the pitch.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

What about their respective supporting cast?

[jpick]

What about their respective supporting cast?

I made an edit, that is supposed to say close, not lose...:o

zidane's has been better, no doubt, that is why you can't just compare trophy cases like some posters do, as that wouldn't prove anything in zidane's favor, imho, one could just conclude that he played on better teams and had more opportunities to win for club and country. as for individual player comparisons, just kind of have to try and make judgments about influence on team play, while discounting system and team advantages...admittedly a hard thing to do, and yes, subjectivity does play a role admittedly in my judgments (unless you judge religiously by the actim index or something).

[phil80]

riquelme is very close in style to me. people compare zidane to guys like totti or ronaldinho or rivaldo, but those aren't really good comparisons even if all are #10s. i think riquelme is close in style and i rate riquelme very high as well (plus he still has a lot left in the tank career-wise for club and country, so it is not fair too him to compare careers yet, but wth, i'll do it anyways), and as of this moment, I would have zidane ahead, but it is close. of course, riquelme could put in another half-decade of brilliance in south america and i might re-think that.

but yeah, two similar players, almost impossible to dispossess even though they are pretty slow, can switch play and control the tempo, and yes, even though you hate it, easy on the eye. :p

riquelme is probably a little more dangerous in the final 25 meters (and he definitely has the edge in set pieces), but i think zidane has the edge in ability to dictate and influence from the middle of the pitch.
both zidane and riquelme controlled the tempo, riquelme would slow the game down more than zidane (a quality of his that always frustrated me). You were spot on about zidane being a master at keeping possession of the ball, something that's often looked over. Riquelme would try too often to make a sensational pass and gave the ball away more than Zidane. and the point about their supporting cast players, posters keep saying that zidane needed to be surrounded by great players, but in actuality zidane made the great players around him even better, riquelme was incapable of dominating unless the team was built around him and he was the star of the team