Greatest Modern Player ??

[Twix]

Holy God the English hyperbole about themselves. It can't be unconnected to the drink.

"Even players like Roberto Baggio described Giggs as the most exciting British footballer they'd seen in years."

Notice the qualification "British."

I'm not English or an even remote England fan so I don't suffer from the excessive use of hyperbole...just saying it how I see it.

Anyway GT, I only used that quote to show that Giggs' impact extended out of the British Isles.

Plus, just being curious, out of the whole post, that's your main complaint or are there others ??

[gmonn]

I'm not English or an even remote England fan so I don't suffer from the excessive use of hyperbole...just saying it how I see it.

Anyway GT, I only used that quote to show that Giggs' impact extended out of the British Isles.

Plus, just being curious, out of the whole post, that's your main complaint or are there others ??

It just seemed the article was a good description of the English hype machine in action. At first the machine just makes wild claims for a player within England, and then it spills its bounds and starts to make its claims about the player regarding the whole world. I swear if Messi was English he'd be considered quite a bit better than Maradona already.
I have another complaint, which is that it brought up the Spice Girls and such. :)

[phil80]

I'm not English or an even remote England fan so I don't suffer from the excessive use of hyperbole...just saying it how I see it.

Anyway GT, I only used that quote to show that Giggs' impact extended out of the British Isles.

Plus, just being curious, out of the whole post, that's your main complaint or are there others ??
That was the longest piece of drivel I've ever read. You seem incompetent of comprehending the point, therefore a discussion with you is absolutely useless. Any idiot can write a biography making any player seem like the greatest alive, only the ignorant eat them up and repost them as gospel. If I wanted, I could post many sources claiming how great Best and Ronaldinho were, but that is childish and off-topic, and something you have excelled in doing.
A few points before i end this meaningless debate. Get it through your head, I NEVER said Giggs didnt have an impact or dominate games or questioned his talent, soak that in for a second. When comparing the greatness of players, people determine who had the greater impact, dominated the game more, and possessed greater sheer talent. That doesnt mean one player didnt have any, it means the other one had more.
The fact that you rate Giggs over George Best illustrates how clueless and biased you are on this topic. Go back and rewatch all three (Best, Ronaldinho, Giggs) at their prime and then come back and post a coherent, impartial response.

[Twix]

It just seemed the article was a good description of the English hype machine in action. At first the machine just makes wild claims for a player within England, and then it spills its bounds and starts to make its claims about the player regarding the whole world. I swear if Messi was English he'd be considered quite a bit better than Maradona already.
I have another complaint, which is that it brought up the Spice Girls and such. :)

The beginning was mostly pasted from Wikipedia so I won't really take the blame for that. The dominance and the rest were all written by me..:)

Apart from Rooney and Rio...I doubt an English player would make my current top 20. BTW I took care to make sure it kept in the context of Britain, which is why I compared him to British players like Beckham, Best, Matthews etc..


So just out of curiosity...(without Garrincha of course..) who would be your top 5 wingers of all time...?

[gmonn]

The beginning was mostly pasted from Wikipedia so I won't really take the blame for that. The dominance and the rest were all written by me..:)

Apart from Rooney and Rio...I doubt an English player would make my current top 20. BTW I took care to make sure it kept in the context of Britain, which is why I compared him to British players like Beckham, Best, Matthews etc..


So just out of curiosity...(without Garrincha of course..) who would be your top 5 wingers of all time...?

You could start a separate thread for that. The thread isn't great British player or great winger, it's greatest modern player. For me it has to be Ronaldo. All time WC leading scorer. Goals in abundance for every team pre and post injury. Lost his peak too soon, but was dominant from a very young age. Probably all three of Kaka, CRonaldo and Messi will be modern greats if they can keep their drive. It will be fun to watch them make their case. Ronaldinho is a modern great, but he's prematurely old, for some reason.

[Twix]

You could start a separate thread for that. The thread isn't great British player or great winger, it's greatest modern player.

I know that, I put up my top 10 on the first page and Ronaldo came 3rd behind Giggs and Maldini. I can see why you picked Ronaldo as numero uno though.

Anyways revised shortlist. Players to consider in no particular order:


Zinedine Zidane, Gabriel Batistuta, Gianluigi Buffon, Romario, Peter Schmeichel, Ronaldo, Thierry Henry, Franco Baresi, Ronaldinho, Dennis Bergkamp, Andriy Shevchenko, Pavel Nedved, Íker Casillas, Rivaldo, Paolo Maldini, Oliver Kahn, Luis Figo, Edgar Davids, Lilian Thuram, Roberto Baggio, Carlos Valderrama, Javier Zanetti, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Claude Malelele, Alan Shearer, Eric Cantona, Franceso Totti, Marcel Desailly, Didier Deschamps, Roberto Carlos, George Weah, Fernando Redondo, Javier Zanneti, Cafu, Gary Neville, Patrick Vieira, Sol Campbell, Roberto Carlos, Del Piero, Ince and Allesandro Nesta.

Now who was the best..?

[sreeja]

thierry henryyyyyy...his knowledge of the game forced fifa to change its free kick rules.he has won most golden boots in this decade

[Teso Dos Bichos]

What has he done at the highest level and when it matters? Winning one European Golden Boot and sharing another does not immediately equate to being the greatest modern player. Jardel won two during the time period of this discussion. Does that make him the greatest modern player?

[babaorum]

What has he done at the highest level and when it matters? Winning one European Golden Boot and sharing another does not immediately equate to being the greatest modern player. Jardel won two during the time period of this discussion. Does that make him the greatest modern player?

I'm not sure he's the greatest modern player but his record for France and Arsenal is good enough to make him one of the greatest players of our generation. He should have won the Golden Ball a few years ago. A French EC winning next summer combined with a great performance from him (like scoring 5 goals + delivering assists) would make him enter the all-time great room. It's the only thing that separates him from a player having such a status - Van Basten for example.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

His record for France is clearly not good enough and while Van Basten cannot boast of having done that much better he does have 88. At domestic club level you could argue that they are even but in European competition Van Basten has the edge. Generally speaking Henry has the longevity but Van Basten has the performances when it mattered.

[Twix]

Henry is a domestic great but his performances outside of England have stopped him from being remembered as a proper great.

His European performances have not been as good as other people in the list above. He has had ample chances to really state his claim as a force against the top teams in Europe when it matters but he has faltered time and time again.

[babaorum]

Henry is a domestic great but his performances outside of England have stopped him from being remembered as a proper great.

His European performances have not been as good as other people in the list above. He has had ample chances to really state his claim as a force against the top teams in Europe when it matters but he has faltered time and time again.

It's a myth to say Henry has only been good at domestic level. His record of 52goals in UEFA cup and Champions league against the European elite teams states the contrary.

You also overshadowed his performances with France. As you've probably noticed he has surpassed Platini's record recently. He has yet to produce a performance comparable to EC88 Van Basten's one or WC 2002 Ronaldo's one but you can't question his consistency - he was after all the best French goalscorer in WC98, EC2000, Confederation Cup 2003, EC2004 and WC2006. He had two very good tournaments (three if you accept to consider the 2003Confederation Cup) - EC2000 and WC2006. He also played a vital part in WC2006 and EC2008 qualifiers.

[Twix]

First off Henry hasn't been "good" at domestic level, he has been a true great. Now when we veer off to his European and International performances, we can gather something different.

It's a myth to say Henry has only been good at domestic level. His record of 52goals in UEFA cup and Champions league against the European elite teams states the contrary.

First off, I said performances, I didn't say he has a poor goal ratio out of domestic level...;)

Even then you have tried to inflate his european record with UEFA cup goals. That's a no-no, let's stick to the cream of the crop in the CL. If we take away the 8 goals in the UEFA cup, we are still left with a rather frightening record of 45 goals in the Champions League. Well if we look at that closely, even then it's not that impressive.

Out of his 45 goals in the CL, only 7(or something close to that) have come in the knockout stages. This tells us that while 'prolific' in the group stages, he underpeforms considerably lower than his norm in the knockout stages.

(If you want to push this point and mention Roma, Inter and Madrid, I warn you I'm prepared..:D)

You also overshadowed his performances with France. As you've probably noticed he has surpassed Platini's record recently. He has yet to produce a performance comparable to WC 2002 Ronaldo's one but you can't question his consistency

That's it in a nutshell mate.

He hasn't has a big performance yet. He's had plenty of chances to but in the end he choked. I'll come on to his consistency next.

(FYI don't bring Van basten into it please - see opening post on page 1)

he was after all the best French goalscorer in WC98, EC2000, Confederation Cup 2003, EC2004 and WC2006. He had two very good tournaments (three if you accept to consider the 2003Confederation Cup) - EC2000 and WC2006. He also played a vital part in WC2006 and EC2008 qualifiers.

I'm sure you know that top goal scorer doesn't mean most consistent performer.

WC '98 - Henry was a young winger who although scoring 3 goals (1 in a penalty shootout) was on the bench for the final.

Euro '00 - 3 goals once more and gave in a solid Euro performance. Played well

CC '03 - Nah, Confederations cup ain't cutting it.

Euro '04 - Riiight. 2 goals against the Swiss who were already out. Missed vital chances against Greece to save them from going out. Very disappointing

WC '06 - He scored 3 goals again and only 1 came in the knockout stages against a very poor Brazil side. Underperformed again.

ECQ '08 - He scored 6 goals in all. In 4 games against Italy and Scotland, he only scored once and didn't seem all that threatening in the games against them.


^^^ Do you really class that as consistent???


So I'll state it once more, domestically in England he was a force, outside of England, he is very disappointing. I know you didn't say he was the greatest in modern times, but imo he shouldn't even be a contender.

[the EFer]

LAWLZ u ppl r stpd. im da gr8est f all time

[Wonderwall952]

Overmars, Vieira, Stam, Hierro, Raul, Cocu, Figo, Mendieta

[Teso Dos Bichos]

None of the above.

[Wonderwall952]

I was just trying to think of some who haven't already been mentioned :)

[BobanFan]

Paolo Maldini. I know these discussions are always dominated by attacking players, and i can understand why, but Maldini is a legend.

[Ukrainesheva]

I think Henry is good but not even close to being the best modern player. I mean what induvial awards has he won? No no fifa player of year no european footballer of the year. I say sheva's better for being one of the leading scorers in europe and wining the european footballer of the year and for leading a lowly country to the world cup.

[QuaresmaRonaldo]

1. Romario
2. Zidane
3. Maldini
4. Ronaldo (brazilian)
5. Rivaldo
6. Figo
7. Baggio
8. Batistuta
9. Ronaldinho
10. Buffon

These Guys Were The Most Feared For Either Club/country.