Greatest Modern Player ??

[Twix]

GTgunning, I like the way you question my choices but don't reveal your own...:p

[gmonn]

GTgunning, I like the way you question my choices but don't reveal your own...:p

:) good point. Suffice it to say I don't think it's laughable to put Ronaldinho over Giggs. Ronaldinho has been one of the most (probably the most) creative player in the world for years now. Giggs plays a more down to earth game, although I've seen some highlights where he was a hell of a dribbler earlier in his career. Ronaldinho caught the imagination of the world though, and was highly influential in winning a WC, as well as other titles. Being a great player is not only about longevity, but also the heights that your play reaches.

[Twix]

Okay, laughable is OTT but i honestly don't believe Giggs gets the respect he deserves.

I was a Ronaldinho fanboy and was all for putting him on an all time pedesta; but he's fallen off the rail and for that he should be penalised. Giggs has been in top shape, kept out of the headlines for how many years, already a living legend in my opinion anyway he should be rated higher than Ronaldinho.

[Twix]

Ronaldinho caught the imagination of the world though, and was highly influential in winning a WC, as well as other titles.

That's where Giggs gets hurt the most. He has never played in a major international tournament so he never got the recognition he deserved. Giggs has been influential in just about every title he's won. That's why I said in an earlier post he's probably been the most consistent player in club football.

Of course I know greatness is more than just longevity but it's a major plus. Instead of Ronaldinho proving his status, I'll think you'll agree he's lost his way and until he regains his spark, I don't think he's earnt a claim to be better than Giggs.

Well not yet anyway...;)

[phil80]

That's pretty laughable. Giggs has ben consistent for more than several years, try his whole career. He has won the most accolades in United's history and was just about pivotal to winning all of them. While I agree Ronaldinho was breathtaking for 3 years, Ronaldinho's brilliant 3 years are not enough to override 15 years of top quality performances. Ronaldinho hasn't even won half of what Giggs has won but you have somehow come to the conclusion that Ronaldinho has done more for football since 1993 than Giggs. Come on.



Totti got the nod over Ronaldinho simple for longevity while Ronaldinho seems to have fallen off the rails of late. Totti plays in a team that plays without a proper striker, but still managed to score 26 league goals. That's just plain remarkable. Ronaldinho's partying seems to have affected him while Totti hs been putting unerring consistent performances for Roma in the last 10 years so that tipped it into Totti's favour.



I made a booboo by forgetting Ruud...:o

I flopped by putting Henry in at tenth. Forgot to factor in International and CL performances for Henry. I'll concede then that Ronaldinho should of been put ahead of Henry.
Try comprehending my post before you reply. By saying Giggs has been consistent for several years it doesnt mean he hasn't been his whole career. But that's besides the point. He could have been consistent for X amount of years but that wont automatically make someone a better player. There is a guy of the name George Best (look him up) he had an incredibly short career but is considered among the best to have ever lived because of his impact during his short career. Ronaldinho's impact, eventhough was nowhere near as long as Giggs, was a lot more influential and he clearly had the more talent.

[Twix]

He could have been consistent for X amount of years but that wont automatically make someone a better player.

Try and comprehend my post before making stupid assumptions like that. I never even implied being consistent for x amount of years automatically makes you a better player. Comparing Gary Speed to Michael Essien is futile because although Speed has been consistent for a long time, Essien has already proved himself to better. The case between Giggs and Ronaldinho is vastly different.

There is a guy of the name George Best (look him up) he had an incredibly short career but is considered among the best to have ever lived because of his impact during his short career.

Funny guy... :rolleyes:

Mentioning George Best actually strengthens my claim. While many acknowledge he was awesomely talented, people say his short career and problems outside of football is detrimental to his legend as he never reached his potential. He wouldn't make many people's top 10 similar to the way Ronaldinho didn't make mine.

Ronaldinho's impact, eventhough was nowhere near as long as Giggs, was a lot more influential and he clearly had the more talent.

Back that up.

[Dr. Know]

how about Fernando Redondo , I think he deserves to be up there.

He does. As well as Javier Zanetti who is still one of the most underrated players out there.

[phil80]

Try and comprehend my post before making stupid assumptions like that. I never even implied being consistent for x amount of years automatically makes you a better player. Comparing Gary Speed to Michael Essien is futile because although Speed has been consistent for a long time, Essien has already proved himself to better. The case between Giggs and Ronaldinho is vastly different.



Funny guy... :rolleyes:

Mentioning George Best actually strengthens my claim. While many acknowledge he was awesomely talented, people say his short career and problems outside of football is detrimental to his legend as he never reached his potential. He wouldn't make many people's top 10 similar to the way Ronaldinho didn't make mine.



Back that up.
All you have claimed is Giggs is better than Ronaldinho because he has been consistent throughout his career, if you cant see what a pathetic argument that is, then there's no hope in a discussion. As for George Best, you're having a hard time comprehending this point, why do you think Giggs isnt rated above a George Best? When you find an answer to that then you will see how your claim holds no water. I'll give you a hint, George was not as consistent throughout his career but he had a larger impact, same with a player like Ronaldinho (the case is the same). And your statement that Best wouldnt make people's top 10 is laughable.

[bigpoppapump]

He does. As well as Javier Zanetti who is still one of the most underrated players out there.

Forgot about him. I find it pretty funny :rolleyes: that him or redondo havnt been mentioned by anyone else.

[Perú FC]

Javier Zanetti would be in my list definitely.

[condor11]

my top 5 in no particular order Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Romario, Baggio and Maldini

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Very good list.

[Twix]

Why do you think Giggs isnt rated above a George Best?

I feared this when you compared Best to Ronaldinho instead of Giggs in the previous post...:rolleyes:

Your knowledge of Giggs' career isn't sufficient for us to carrry on this debate. Do some research on Giggs' career, get some footage, ask some United fans' their opinion on him and them maybe we'll continue this later.

There are other flaws in your posts but that stands out the most for me. So until you know more about Giggs', then we can start talking again. :)

[Twix]

Very good list.

Teso, are you going to grace us with a list of your own ??

[Excape Goat]

I was a Ronaldinho fanboy and was all for putting him on an all time pedesta; but he's fallen off the rail and for that he should be penalised.

Ronaldinho is still young. He could still make a comeback.

[Twix]

Ronaldinho is still young. He could still make a comeback.

True dat, but until then, he doesn't derserve a place in my list.

[phil80]

I feared this when you compared Best to Ronaldinho instead of Giggs in the previous post...:rolleyes:

Your knowledge of Giggs' career isn't sufficient for us to carrry on this debate. Do some research on Giggs' career, get some footage, ask some United fans' their opinion on him and them maybe we'll continue this later.

There are other flaws in your posts but that stands out the most for me. So until you know more about Giggs', then we can start talking again. :)
Unfortuneately for you, ive followed Giggs for several years now and i had always been impressed with his play. One thing you are not getting is when ranking players longevity and consistency are not as strong factors as the level of impact, dominance of the game, and sheer talent a player possesses.
Until you comprehend this concept and answer my previous question, then a discussion will be absolutely futile.

[argentine soccer fan]

This isn't the thread for the Peles and Maradonas of this world to take mainstage. It's more a thread to see what constitutes modern greatness these days. So while the Henrys and Tottis arguably look out of place in an all timer list, maybe they are what it constitutes a modern great ??

So by modern, I mean after the glory days of Maradona, probably the last all timer to come to the fore. So I ask that only players that were active after 1993 to be considered. Any achievements, active players, goals scored etc., Pre 1993 is irrelevant for the purpose of this thread to prevent people from comparing Stephen Bywater to Lev Yashin, Emile Heskey to Gerd Muller and so on...:rolleyes:

The main criteria, is their ability, achievements, personal role in team's success and their overall skill and effiency.

With all that being said, I defy someone to say that Phil Neville isn't the best player of Modern Times...:p

There really has not been a dominant player since Maradona. If you want to look at players who have been at their peak after 1993, then there really isn't a clear choice.

If we're talking about creative attacking players primarily, I'd probably say Ronaldo at his peak was the most dominant, but he was a his peak for a short time, due to injuries.

Here are some others who come to mind who impressed me with their talent. I'm staying away from younger guys who are not done yet.

Romario, Hagi, Stoichkov, Figo, Zidane, Rivaldo, Batistuta, Valderrama, Bergkamp, Weah, Baggio

None has been trully dominant, though. Maybe if Ronaldo had stayed healthy and in top shape...

I like what I see with today's youngest generation, though.

[Twix]

Unfortuneately for you, ive followed Giggs for several years now and i had always been impressed with his play. One thing you are not getting is when ranking players longevity and consistency are not as strong factors as the level of impact, dominance of the game, and sheer talent a player possesses.
Until you comprehend this concept and answer my previous question, then a discussion will be absolutely futile.

Riiiight…cos

Giggs didn’t have a major impact on football
Giggs hasn’t dominated many game.
Giggs didn’t possess sheer talent.

I told you to do your research but now you’re embarrassing yourself.

I’ll state Giggs' case again for you but you’re going have to find the footage and ask other United posters what they think of Giggs to get a better picture of him.

Impact.

A young sprightly manager by the name of Alex Ferguson was in search of his first league title when he heard of a prodigious talent by the name of Ryan Giggs.

Giggs had his beginning with ManchesterCity and was signed as a young 14 year old by the club after being spotted on the streets of Manchester. Giggs' talent was so mercurial that Alex Ferguson literally made it a point to go down to the boy's house, knock on his door and urge him to sign for United instead, with the opportunity to turn professional in three years in front of the boy, who grabbed at the chance of a lifetime. Indeed, so profound was Giggs' talent, so much so that even the England Under-21 coaches like Lawrie McMenemy ensured a check on whether he was eligible to play for the nation. Contrary to popular opinion, Giggs could not have played for the full England national side.

A left-sided winger who occasionally plays as a supporting striker for United, Giggs shot to superstardom in Britain in 1992 as one of the most exciting talents in the history of the game when he was just barely 18, and had earned the tag of 'Boy Wonder', and in one description by the tabloids, the 'boy who converted a million innocent teeange hearts into United fans'. He was arguably the first ever teenage soccer poster boy to have garnered such attention last seen since the likes of George Best, a player Giggs was ceaselessly compared to, and who, alongside Bobby Charlton personally went down to United's training sessions at the Cliff specifically to watch Giggs work his magic. Giggs' form in the years ahead was breathakingly scintillating to say the least, earning him two PFA Young Player of the Year awards and gaining admirers continent wide as well as around the world. Even players like Roberto Baggio described Giggs as the most exciting British footballer they'd seen in years.

As an added bonus, Giggs also scored in the marketing department, with the result of his boyish good looks making him a hit with fans and unsurprisingly, a teen icon with whom the media tabloids and modelling agencies sought relentlessly, with his fame comparable with the likes of Pop Stars at the time like Spice Girls. In 1994, the BBC described Giggs as "one of the most photographed persons" in Britain alongside Princess Diana. Giggs or 'Giggsy' as he was known, was also hailed as one of the FA Premier League's biggest stars and could often be found as the main merchandising icon of the league's early years in marketing itself globally and reforging its image after the hooliganism affected years of the 1980s. This is before the likes of David Beckham and Wayne Rooney had made their first appearance in football.

In his first full start, Giggs scored his first ever goal in a 1-0 win in the Manchester derby and collected his first piece of silverware in April 1992 as United defeated Nottingham Forest in the League Cup Final after Giggs had set up Brian McClair to score the only goal of the game.By the start of the 1992/1993 season - the first season of the newly formed FA Premier League, Giggs made the left-wing position at United his own, and come into light as British football's leading prodigious talent. In the years ahead, Giggs' feats of intricate dribbling patterns weaved to delightfully thrill and enthuse the fans were becoming a hallmark of his game and his terrifyingly electric pace and stupendous skills were also considered by many to be way ahead of his time, earning him previously unoffered opportunities to footballers until they were at least much older and established: like that of hosting his own television show, 'Ryan Giggs' Soccer Skills', a hit with ITV and Granada in 1994. Giggs was often hailed as 'wizard' or 'genius' by critics and pundits alike, and according to an article in World Soccer by Stephen Thanabalan, was regarded as a leader of a new breed of a creatively crafty new wingers in the English game that was crucial to its new image of dispensing with that of the boring long ball styles of previous generations.

Dominance

Giggs is easily the best left winger of his generation. He is arguably United’s best winger, ahead of George Best(:eek:). He is among the greatest wingers ever to play the game along with Finney, Matthews and Best. To say, imply or criticize Ryan Giggs for not dominating the game is either ignorant or insulting. Giggs was one of the most feared footballers on the planet. In his prime, he would terrorize any fullback for the whole 90 minutes, not giving him a second to breathe. Whether it’s DerbyCounty or Juventus, Giggs was always a contender for Man of the Match.

He had electrifying pace and he was courted by many teams across Europe. Inter and Juve were known fans of Giggs’ mercurial talent but he chose to stay at United and be pivotal in everything they’ve won in the past 15 years. Every league title, every FA cup and every CL campaign since 1993, he has been influential in every single one. I won’t pull out one particular league campaign as they have all been great, but to be considered as the best British talent should be enough for you.

No-one winger can match his dominance, effort and influence on the pitch in the past 15 years. From his assist for McClair in the league cup final in 1992 to his winning goal against Arsenal in 1999 to getting 4 assists against Roma in 2007.

Giggs dominance of the game is unquestionable.

Sheer Talent

At first, I thought you were talking about a player you haven’t seen, but you’ve said you’ve “followed Giggs” so to doubt his talent shows you up to be pretty darn foolish imo.

You compared Best to Ronaldinho instead of Giggs…:o

In case you didn’t notice the hints…:rolleyes:

Giggs was touted at the next Best!!

Similar to Messi and Maradona, Giggs and Best are constantly compared. Both ran defences ragged for Manchester United, extremely talented at a young age and they both had an insane left foot !!

Just because you don't see Giggs juggling a ball in Joga Bonito adverts ala Ronaldinho, it doesn't mean he wasn't immensly talented.

He had a wiry frame and he would turn you inside out and leave you for dead with his frighting pace. He was so fast, that players couldn't get near enough to move him off the ball. He had pinpoint crossing which lead to him making many a goal, his low centre of gravity made him hard to shrug off the ball. He was the player that brought fans to the stadium and was usually the talking point afterwards with how he made another fullback look silly

Giggs had supersonic pace, exceptional ball control, incredible ball control and a great knack for scoring beautiful goals. Find his goals against QPR in 94, Arsenal 99 and Deportivo in 2003(I think).I have hastened to mention his dribbling skills. That’s because they were breathtaking, he could skin any fullback put in front of him with relative ease. He was a sight to behold and he is a must for anyone who loves beautiful dribblers. I won't deny Ronaldinho may have 101 tricks up his sleeve, but he cannot claim to being a better pure dribbler than Giggs was.

Outside of strikers, Giggs has scored the most goals in the premiership with 100 league goals!

To deny that Giggs has sheer talent is misguided and wrong, he is easily one of the most talented players of the last 20 years.

Longevity and Consistency

With all that being cleared up, we come back to my main point. Giggs didn’t do that over a stunning 3 year period, no he’s owned that wing for 15 years! Not many players can claim to of done that before

He has aged beautifully. He has kept himself incredibly fit to still be playing football week in, week out at the grand old age of 34. His pace may have left him but his genius is still on display for all to see (note his 4 assists against Roma this calendar year)

To be great for 5 years is amazing. To be great for 10 years is even better. Well to be outstanding for 15 years is a testament to his ability and which is why he’s already in Football’s hall of fame.

Persona

Giggs is the perfect role model for all upcoming footballers. He has avoided the spotlight and the controversy that comes with the attention and he has played his game. He is a beacon of good sportsmanship and is an advocate of playing the game right. Giggs doesn’t dive and cannot be accused of never giving his best.

While Best never fulfilled his potential, Giggs certainly has and there is still scope for more success. Ronaldinho is an awesomely talented footballer but to still get praise despite his fall from grace should penalise him and work against him in such threads. Giggs is a bastion of what you can achieve if you keep on the right track

He never allowed the hype to go to his head (similarly to Ronaldinho) and party and waste his exceptional talents. Instead he put his head down, kept fit, remained loyal to United and he used his great talents to achieve great things with United and still is to this day.

Doing for a three year period is impressive but doing it for 15 years is mind boggling.

Achievements

If my player profile hasn’t done it for you, let’s look at what he’s achieved then. (He has won everything in the domestic game by the way)

Manchester United's second most capped player behind Bobby Charlton with 731 appearances.

Premier League – 9 times (British Record Holder)
Champion (9): 1992-93, 1993-94, 1995-96, 1996-97, 1998-99, 1999-00, 2000-01, 2002-03, 2006-07

FA Cup - 4 times (joint second record holder)
1994, 1996, 1999, 2004

League Cup – 2 times
1992 and 2006

UEFA super Cup
1991

Intercontinintel Cup
1999

Champions League – 1 time
1999
Inducted into the English Football Hall of Fame: 2005

Inducted into the Premiership Team of the Decade: 2003

Inducted into the FA Challenge Cup Team of the Century: 2006

Outside of strikers, He has scored the most goals with 100 in the premiership

Only player to have scored in 12 consecutive Champions League tournaments

Along with Gary Speed, the only player have scored in every Premier League campaign since its inception

OBE for services to football



Giggs is a living legend NFT


___________________________________________________________

Thanks to my source

Johno

[gmonn]

Holy God the English hyperbole about themselves. It can't be unconnected to the drink.

"Even players like Roberto Baggio described Giggs as the most exciting British footballer they'd seen in years."

Notice the qualification "British."