Greatest Modern Player ??

[Dr. Know]

lmao that dwarf is not even in the top 5


c.ronaldo is 1ox better

:rolleyes: You go into the Barca forum saying you support Barca yet you insult Messi in practically every thread around here. Get over it.

[erick]

:rolleyes: You go into the Barca forum saying you support Barca yet you insult Messi in practically every thread around here. Get over it.

yes i like to watch barca but i dont like messi. just because i like the team doesnt mean i have to like him

[kingkong1]

yes i like to watch barca but i dont like messi. just because i like the team doesnt mean i have to like himErik,

Messi might not be the best (or maybe not even the 3rd of 4th) of the last 15 years, but he is a joy to watch.

Barcelona without Messi is shiit.

If you don't like La Pulga, you don't like football :cool: ...

[erick]

Erik,

Messi might not be the best (or maybe not even the 3rd of 4th) of the last 15 years, but he is a joy to watch.

Barcelona without Messi is shiit.

If you don't like La Pulga, you don't like football :cool: ...

football is c.ronaldo & torres :cool:

[kingkong1]

football is c.ronaldo & torres :cool:None - or all - of them (Messi included, although Messi is way more complete than Torres)...

They are yet 'superstars in the making' ;) ...

[erick]

None - or all - of them (Messi included, although Messi is way more complete than Torres)...

They are yet 'superstars in the making' ;) ...

messi is far below c.ronaldo and torres has pass him

[zizouForlife]

While I have no problem with Zidane being boasted as one of the most skilled players of his generation, to say he was the best is a bit over the top. Zidane benefited greatly from being on some superb teams. He played his role very well but this illusion that he was carrying his sides is too much. At the international level it was the defense that carried France and at club it was outstanding midfield players all around him.

he definitely carried the french team, he was very instrumental for its success in the last 12 years or so. about defenders carrying the team lol, first of football is not one man job, defenders did their job and zidane did his and they all benefited.

about his club performance, you contradict yourself, first you acknowledge him as being one of the most skilled, then you degrade him by saying he was surrounded by better midfielders wtf. he was great a player where ever he played. at bordeaux he won ligue 1 and was runners up in the uefa cup, at juventus marcelo lippi made him the playmaker, at madrid he lived up his transfer record by bringing the CL to madrid. so which midfielders are talking about figo, beckam.

he met his fellow team mates at madrid on international level and conquered them one by one figo, beckam, ronaldo, and others

[Dr. Know]

yes i like to watch barca but i dont like messi. just because i like the team doesnt mean i have to like him

Messi is Barcelona right now. This statement is beyond dumb.

[erick]

Messi is Barcelona right now. This statement is beyond dumb.

so is c.ronaldo...difference is that MAN utd is the CL winner

[ZeekLTK]

Lmao, you're going to use the 06 WC to compare 'dinho and Zidane?

Go back to 2002 bud, and see who was truly better. The entire Brazilian team didn't play well in 06.

I'd take prime Ronaldinho over him any day. Zidane may have played beautifully, but as his own manager said, didn't do that much for the team.

Quick to forget 1998? And 2000?

[Dr. Know]

so is c.ronaldo...difference is that MAN utd is the CL winner

What are you talking about?

You say you like a team but you don't like their best player? That's like an America fan saying he doesn't like Memo Ochoa or Salvador Cabañas.

[Dr. Know]

he definitely carried the french team, he was very instrumental for its success in the last 12 years or so. about defenders carrying the team lol, first of football is not one man job, defenders did their job and zidane did his and they all benefited.

about his club performance, you contradict yourself, first you acknowledge him as being one of the most skilled, then you degrade him by saying he was surrounded by better midfielders wtf. he was great a player where ever he played. at bordeaux he won ligue 1 and was runners up in the uefa cup, at juventus marcelo lippi made him the playmaker, at madrid he lived up his transfer record by bringing the CL to madrid. so which midfielders are talking about figo, beckam.

he met his fellow team mates at madrid on international level and conquered them one by one figo, beckam, ronaldo, and others

:rolleyes: The myth of Zidane will never die.

[Moishe]

I don't know why this obsession with great players who are said to have 'carried' mediochre teams 'all by themselves' :rolleyes: ...

One thing BTW I never saw happening in six decades of football.

But, let's assume that that's true.

One can simply say that talented guys who do that having around lousy teammates in fact benefit from it in order to show off.

They'd be like beautiful pearls among stinky pigs - and, by definition, almost as an obligation, they gotta shine.

On the other hand, if you're a pearl among pearls, and you still shine...

Sorry, that's much more difficult :cool: ...

You never watched Maradona in your sixty plus years? Granted the 86 Albicelestes were a good side, they likely weren't winning the World Cup without him. Napoli? Not as bad as some make them out but again not likely to have seen the success they did without Maradona. As far as your pearl analogy, that argument can be made either way. In fact shining without an awesome side supporting you is arguably harder. Which player would have the benefit of drawing away multiple defenders?

agree completely, i dont know where this logic stems from that it is a criteria to classify the great players only after they carried a mediocre team. Fanboys like moishe use Riquelme's example with a mediocre side as the gold standard to judge 'great players'

Regardless of the quality of the side, Zidane just never carried a side. He did have some incredible matches but as has been argued to death in countless other threads is that he did not consistently carry his sides. Deal with it. As far as calling people fanboys, nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. Your diatribes with Teso is the epitome of fanboyism. Listening to you argue about Messi while using his defensive improvements to support your cause is being a fanboy. Does he track back? Sure but does that really constitute defending? Hell you even came into the Argentina forums boasting that same rubbish about Messi and quite a few thought you were getting carried away.

he definitely carried the french team, he was very instrumental for its success in the last 12 years or so. about defenders carrying the team lol, first of football is not one man job, defenders did their job and zidane did his and they all benefited.

about his club performance, you contradict yourself, first you acknowledge him as being one of the most skilled, then you degrade him by saying he was surrounded by better midfielders wtf. he was great a player where ever he played. at bordeaux he won ligue 1 and was runners up in the uefa cup, at juventus marcelo lippi made him the playmaker, at madrid he lived up his transfer record by bringing the CL to madrid. so which midfielders are talking about figo, beckam.

he met his fellow team mates at madrid on international level and conquered them one by one figo, beckam, ronaldo, and others

The defense was the back-bone of the French sides, just look to the gols allowed to figure it out. If you want stats, check out some of the hardcore threads that have dispelled the myth.

Now let me ask, how do I contradict myself with regards to saying he was one of the most skilled mids? I'll make this easy for you, I did not use the word better, I used outstanding. Two different words with different meanings. Of course you might be making the argument that he didn't consistently play around outstanding midfielders, are you? Also he didn't win a league title with Bordeaux.

:rolleyes: The myth of Zidane will never die.

Nothing wrong with acknowledging he's a great player, but the pedestal he's been placed up is mind-boggling.

[kingkong1]

You never watched Maradona in your sixty plus years? Granted the 86 Albicelestes were a good side, they likely weren't winning the World Cup without him. Napoli? Not as bad as some make them out but again not likely to have seen the success they did without Maradona.Man, that's a myth, in which only you and hardcore Napoli rooters believe.

Not even if I were 120 year old (and born at the age of professionalization of football in England), I'd have witnessed something like one player carrying a team by himself – or ‘singlehandedly’ as Argentinians macarronically use to say.

If the albicelestes couldn't be champions in 1986 without him, he’d never be able to become champion without them either.

Otherwise, it’d be enough to have him and the goalie in the field: the rest could remain in the bench and applaud :D …

Not even if he were God, an Airplane, or SuperMouse, he'd be able to destroy defenses alone.

The whole Argie team (‘mediochre’ or not) in fact played in function of him.

It had a very efficient defense and protected his ‘leader’ almost as American Football tacklers do towards their quarterbacks (an Euro-Italian trend BTW).

On time: mediochre doesn’t necessarily mean bad, but medium, average.

And average teams can go very far (see Brazil 94, which we might also say – without the least reason – that was singlehandedly ‘carried’ by Romário, or Brazil 62, that, in the absence of Pelé and the 'old' age of D. Santos, Zito, Didi, Vavá and N. Santos, was ‘carried’ by Garrincha in very much the same way).

Of course the ‘rest’ of the Argentinian team didn’t need much talent to do a good deal of tackling in 86, but that that was essential for El Pibe’s performance is simply a fact of football.

Since Maradona was the best dribbler of the team and - on the contrary that it's affirmed - was offered all the space of the world to perform his skills (besides Argentina’s adversaries in 1986 were particularly lousy defensively), it became particularly easy to ‘shine’, don’t you think so?...

In Napoli, Maradona had an even better structure: he counted with a very solid team around him (with very efficient players like Garella, Renica, Pecci, Giordano, Bagni, Ferrario, Crippa, Fusi, not to mention the luxurious help of Careca in the attack and Alemão in the midfield).

OK, the only ‘genius’ there was him: but not only he was not alone, as he was very efficiently backed in both the Argie NT and Napoli.

AND GENIUSES IN GENERAL DON'T PLAY FOR EACH OTHER: THEY PLAY FOR THEMSELVES.

Therefore ‘showing off’ if you are a genius playing among average players can become a much easier task than if you are surrounded by other geniuses.As far as your pearl analogy, that argument can be made either way.That's exactly what I meant.But, let's assume that that was true.The 'pearl analogy' was just a demonstration ad absurdum of the absurdity of your 'singlehandedly theory’.

What I meant was:

'The same way you say that 'playing alone' is worse for the guy to 'show off', that same statement can be logically inverted to prove (by the contrast of his evident talents with the lousiness of his teamates) that it's better as well'In fact shining without an awesome side supporting you is arguably harder.The key word in that phrase is precisely that…arguably. :pWhich player would have the benefit of drawing away multiple defenders?The advantages*** of being 60!... ;)

Friendereich, Leônidas, Lostau, Pedernera, Di Stéfano, Stanley Matthews, Puskas, Best, Pelé, Beckenbauer, Garrincha, Jairzinho, Tostão (the anthologic goal in 1970, this time against a respectable English Team), Platini, Zico, Ronaldo (the 3), Kaká (the goal agst Argentina in the Emirates Stadium), Messi (the goal against Getafe) & many others did (and do) that all the time and none of them has ever advocated winning any game or tournament ‘singlehandedly’.

A megalomaniac concept fruit of the passion of fanatics that simply doesn’t hold.
______________________________________________________________

*** I saw most of them from Di Stéfano on.

[ChelseaForTheCup(s)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL6g_BRM7wg

Lmao....."coast to coast" in the middle of I guess it's Italian he's speaking.

[phil80]

Regardless of the quality of the side, Zidane just never carried a side. He did have some incredible matches but as has been argued to death in countless other threads is that he did not consistently carry his sides. Deal with it. As far as calling people fanboys, nothing more than the pot calling the kettle black. Your diatribes with Teso is the epitome of fanboyism. Listening to you argue about Messi while using his defensive improvements to support your cause is being a fanboy. Does he track back? Sure but does that really constitute defending? Hell you even came into the Argentina forums boasting that same rubbish about Messi and quite a few thought you were getting carried away.


Quit rambling and attempt to have some cohesion in your rant. First, the Messi debates were in other threads, so try to stay on topic, even though it must be hard for you. Zidane was the creative mind for his club and national team for many years. Was he always the most athletic, most skillful, most dangerous player? No, but his impact on the team was almost always the crucial intangibles, which you will never understand. He is definitely among the greatest, debatably in the top 20 and without a doubt a better player than your man-crush riquelme.

On a side note, listing the fact that messi tracks back and closes down defenders more effectively than ronaldo is an important footballing characteristic, whether you choose to accept it or not. And dont even try to label others as fanboys when you have been called out by other posters for your infatuation with Riquelme. (someone just reading your ridiculous personal quote would get the picture) I have said many times how i think messi still needs to improve especially on his selflessness and know when to pull it back in congested areas, you however have reeked of Riquelme fanboyism all along.

[ChelseaForTheCup(s)]

Zidane was more flashy than he was useful.

[Moishe]

Quit rambling and attempt to have some cohesion in your rant. First, the Messi debates were in other threads, so try to stay on topic, even though it must be hard for you. Zidane was the creative mind for his club and national team for many years. Was he always the most athletic, most skillful, most dangerous player? No, but his impact on the team was almost always the crucial intangibles, which you will never understand. He is definitely among the greatest, debatably in the top 20 and without a doubt a better player than your man-crush riquelme.

On a side note, listing the fact that messi tracks back and closes down defenders more effectively than ronaldo is an important footballing characteristic, whether you choose to accept it or not. And dont even try to label others as fanboys when you have been called out by other posters for your infatuation with Riquelme. (someone just reading your ridiculous personal quote would get the picture) I have said many times how i think messi still needs to improve especially on his selflessness and know when to pull it back in congested areas, you however have reeked of Riquelme fanboyism all along.

You are an only child aren't you?:rolleyes: The quoted post is much more of a ramble than anything I've posted but hey you rarely agree with people so I wouldn't expect you to now. As far as Messi and staying on topic, he has been mentioned at least a dozen times since the inception of this thread so it is relevant. On the other hand Riquelme has not once been mentioned in this thread by anyone so in turn, why don't you stay on topic? Now how hard will that be for you?

You acknowledge that Zidane was "almost always" which is a realistic and far cry from the masses that contend he did it all each and every match he played in. You may not be exclusively one of the masses but many on here are blinded to that reality and put him on a certain pedestal.

I'm going to revisit your fanboy claims since you chose to take this off-topic. My sig is indicative of someone that blindly supports their team and for a Bostero Riquelme is an idolo. ASF and Siempre Albiceleste amongst others have Riquelme references in their sigs which is indicative of Argentines support for their club and players. Something you as either an American or Englishman have a hard time understanding. I acknowledge he is currently my favorite player but I am also capable of questioning/criticizing his play as well as stating he needs to be sat down until his fitness comes back. Not really fanboyism just reality. Those posts are still here in Big Soccer if you doubt me.

This is forum for an exchange of opinions and ideas.....if you don't agree then fine, but don't behave like a little child grabbing his toys and stomping off, it's really immature. Agree to disagree, it's what many of us on here do without resorting to personal attacks. Can you do that?

[Kulspruta]

So much for carrying a team all by himself, Maradona took Napoli from 11th place to the 8th place in the italian league in his first year with the team. Incredible, amazing player, too bad that he's surrounded by myths. This crooked logic of taking teams "singlehandedly" to the top being the ultimate argument for great players would in fact favour Beckenbauer as the best ever, and heck, even Juninho Pernambucano would deserve a top 10 mention.

[phil80]

You are an only child aren't you?:rolleyes: The quoted post is much more of a ramble than anything I've posted but hey you rarely agree with people so I wouldn't expect you to now. As far as Messi and staying on topic, he has been mentioned at least a dozen times since the inception of this thread so it is relevant.

My sig is indicative of someone that blindly supports their team and for a Bostero Riquelme is an idolo. I acknowledge he is currently my favorite player
This is forum for an exchange of opinions and ideas.....if you don't agree then fine, but don't behave like a little child grabbing his toys and stomping off, it's really immature. Agree to disagree, it's what many of us on here do without resorting to personal attacks. Can you do that?
You are simply pathetic, just because Messi has been mentioned doesn't make your comment about my messi posts directed to teso relevant. How you could even think these two things relate is beyond me, but then again it has become expected from you.

Your Riquelme worshipping as an idol is pure fanboyism no matter how you like to sugar-coat, get over it, you're not fooling anyone. I'm tired of dealing with your immaturity, so if you can't stay on topic, then leave and let the adults do the discussing.