Greatest Modern Player ??

[babaorum]

So in responding to a post that spoke about influence which doesn't show up on the stat sheet, I made a point not based on facts?

And that is meant to be a criticism?

If you want to call on supposed merits which cannot be measured (or at least which we do not have available statistics for) then you should expect that many people will not share that point of view.

I'm not the one who wants to talk about things that cannot be measured - see my previous posts in which I've constantly tried to prove my point with facts. Actually I think influence can be measured, at least to a certain extent, by stats. That's what I tried to do with Zidane playing with NT and it appeared that he was the player most involved in the team's goals. It doesn't mean that all the game went through him but simply that he was by a large margin the most influencual player on the field. So if all the game goes through Riquelme in NT as you implied it necessarily means his figures should be much higher than Zidanes' ones. I don't think they are. The same goes for Veron at club level.

[comme]

I'm not the one who wants to talk about things that cannot be measured - see my previous posts in which I've constantly tried to prove my point with facts. Actually I think influence can be measured, at least to a certain extent, by stats. That's what I tried to do with Zidane playing with NT and it appeared that he was the player most involved in the team's goals. It doesn't mean that all the game went through him but simply that he was by a large margin the most influencual player on the field. So if all the game goes through Riquelme in NT as you implied it necessarily means his figures should be much higher than Zidanes' ones. I don't think they are. The same goes for Veron at club level.

Was I responding to your post?

I don't have the statistics available for either Riquelme or Veron for assists, as it is not a commonly measured statistic.

If I'm responding to a point which is using subjective criteria then I cannot be expected to use hard data which is not even available.

[Jr Galaxy]

concur with babaorum. Opposing teams worried about Zidane's potential effect on each game and thus didnt allow Zidane to always get all the touches necessary in terms of being a prolific goal scorer or assist machine. With all the stars he played with, its amazing how much he actually accomplished. Yes he was in great teams, but was also facing quality defenders. At age 34, he almost led his country to the world cup title. How many have the others led their country to even a final appearance? He wasnt always the best in the world(3 years he was), but when it mattered most Zidane seemed to rise to the occasion multiple times for a good decade. Zidane was a great player, one of the best in his generation, I dont know what more can be said to prove he was a top notch player.

[erick]

zidane is the greatest modern player :D he helped france win a WC and was close to winning a second one and he also helped real madrid a lot

[kingkong1]

With all the stars he played with, its amazing how much he actually accomplished.I agree.

But I cannot let that pass without remarking that that's ironically the same argument used by Pelé's opositors when trying to downgrade his accomplishments ('no wonder Pelé was 'that' good: even I would be a genius with all those great players around me')he (Zidane) was in great teams, but was also facing quality defendersTo what consequently follows the fallacy that Pelé didn't face 'quality defenders' (as if any 'modern' defenders could quality wise match Yashin, Banks, B. Moore, Breitner, Beckenbauer, C. Aberto, D. Santos, N. Santos, Trapattoni, Facchetti etc etc) :cool: ...

Just a bit off-topic, but thought it'd be a useful remark.

[lionmessi]

zidane is overrated, all he did in wc98 was to score two headers in one match, he was invisible in all other matches.

[phil80]

zidane is overrated, all he did in wc98 was to score two headers in one match, he was invisible in all other matches.
and what about all the european cup games and wc2006?

[lionmessi]

and what about all the european cup games and wc2006?
im not saying he wasnt a good player, but there have been players far better than him, the only reason he gets much praise is cuz of his one perfomance in wc final.

[phil80]

the only reason he gets much praise is cuz of his one perfomance in wc final.

That one performance is the only thing people rate him on? :rolleyes:

[kingkong1]

The 5 best modern players of the last 15 years - Zidane, Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Riquelme.

The one best modern player of the last 50 years - Pelé.

Modern football started in 1958 :cool: .

[Teso Dos Bichos]

No Rivaldo equals joke list.

[kingkong1]

The 5 best modern players of the last 15 years - Zidane, Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Riquelme.

The one best modern player of the last 50 years - Pelé.

Modern football started in 1958 :cool: .To reinforce what I stated above, listen to what Pelé said today:

"Antes daquele título, os jornalistas europeus perguntavam se o Brasil era na Argentina, se aqui havia índios andando nas ruas. Depois, passamos a ser conhecidos no mundo todo. Outra coisa que me chamava atenção era que não tinha nenhum negro nas outras seleções", recordou Pelé, para quem a seleção de 1958 contava com mais craques que a de 1970, tricampeã mundial.

"Before that title, European periodists asked if Brazil was in Argentina, if there were indians walking in the streets. Afterwards we got known in the whole world. Another thing that attracted my attention was that there were no black players in the other NTs", remembered Pelé, for whom the 1958 NT had more extraclass players than the tri-champ 1970 one.

http://esportes.terra.com.br/futebol/copadobrasil/interna/0,,OI2923727-EI1950,00-Pele+nao+arrisca+palpite+na+final+entre+Corinthians+e+Vitoria.html

The constant presence of black players in all contemporary world's NTs - from 1958 on, a trade mark of modern football.

[Fußball ist König]

im not saying he wasnt a good player, but there have been players far better than him, the only reason he gets much praise is cuz of his one perfomance in wc final.

So he came up big on the biggest stage of them all. I could think of worse things to get praised for.

IMO off the top of my head some of the top players over the past 15 years
Zidane, Ronaldo, van Nistelrooy, Bergkamp, Totti, Baggio, Maldini, Zanetti, Rivaldo, Kahn, Schmeichel

[Perú FC]

The 5 best modern players of the last 15 years - Zidane, Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Riquelme.
I think Riquelme couldn't be by far in that list. I'd replace him for Rivaldo definitely and Roberto Carlos for Ronaldinho.

[shalom82]

The best player of the past 15 years is Maldini.
Then you have Zidane, Ronaldo, Baggio, Rivaldo, Totti and Giggs. Definitely Giggs in there. I guess Figo, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldinho sort of deserve honourable mentions.

[Antonio81]

Maldini and Zidane are totally different players, there really isn´t any way to determine which is better.

[kingkong1]

The best player of the past 15 years is Maldini.
Then you have Zidane, Ronaldo, Baggio, Rivaldo, Totti and Giggs. Definitely Giggs in there. I guess Figo, Roberto Carlos and Ronaldinho sort of deserve honourable mentions.Way more impotant than the 'best player of the past 15 years', whichever way you shuffle them (Maldini, Zidane, Romário etc as the best), is the fact (in any list of 6 or 8 players like that) of the constant and ever growing presence of black players in contemporary European football.

In Shalom82 list, out of 8, 4 are black and 1 is of African origin.

That (Eusébio for Portugal, Gullit and Rijkjaard for Holland, Barnes for UK, Henry for France, Anderson for MU, Drogba for Chelsea, even Ballotelli for Italy! :p), would be unthinkable before Pelé.

In 1958, the King officially opened the gates for 'modern football'.

He is still (and keeps being more and more) the greatest modern player ever.

Unless an Asian Pelé steps in :cool: ...

[AussieLFCfan]

zidane is overrated, all he did in wc98 was to score two headers in one match, he was invisible in all other matches.

Two headers...is that all...? :rolleyes:

The 5 best modern players of the last 15 years - Zidane, Romário, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Riquelme.




How does Riquelme get a start? :eek:

How about Raul?

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Riquelme > Zidane

Far more consistent, more influential for club/country and did not go missing as much.

[Perú FC]

Riquelme > Zidane
Far more consistent, more influential for club/country and did not go missing as much.
I know anyone can have a different idea to compare players, but I can't avoid thinking that the matter of Teso Dos Bichos with Zidane is personal :D.