Issues with the Coach.

[AspireNatlRef]

This is a general question about what is your threshold for when a coach continues from the sidelines about calls you make.

This weekend, I had a coach (blue) that I had been getting along with well, seemed like a great guy, never complained about anything. This specific game was a final and the opposing team(red) was beating his team 2-0.

Touch line, questionable ball out of touch. Occurs right in front of the red bench. As I am putting the whistle to my mouth to award a throw-in (to the blue team no less) and the red bench/coaches say "Its out." I whistle, indicate blue throw and the blue coach goes ballistic. Screams at me, "Who is calling this game? You or that teams coaches?" then proceeds to yell at the red coach for a minute (which I didn't know till after the game, by being informed from the red coach, I thought he was just yelling at me, didn't have time to realize he was directing it at the other coach). Later in the game he says something along the lines of "Your killing me" A few other words after every call. This has never happened with this guy, but figured it was just an bad day for him.

Where do you draw the line for coaches yelling at you? I probably should have tossed him (especially if I had known that the yelling was directed at the red bench and not at me) but didn't...

Give me some examples from your own games in expelling/sending off/dismissing a coach.

ANR

[Ref Flunkie]

Did you at any point ask the coach to settle down? I've never been a big fan of going straight to the "tossing of the coach" (unless it is clearly abusive/foul language directed at me or someone else). I basically go have a chat with the coach as soon as his/her behavior starts to impact the game. This could be one, extended outburst or many short ones after every call against his team (as you ran into), but anything that starts to make the coach the center of attention will draw a warning from me that he needs to tone it down or risk dismissal. If he doesn't want to listen, or doesn't start to modify his behavior, then off he goes.

I've heard other referees go straight to dismissal for coach issues, but as with players, it is emotional for coaches so I am more willing to give them a chance to settle down once I have determined they are going too far. Even if he was yelling at the red bench, I likely would have warned him unless it was in the foul/abusive language area.

[andymoss]

First approach will be to try to placate him. Let him know you hear him. Often, that's all he wants, to be heard, esp. if he's losing in a final.

Throw him a bone. Call a few trivial things in his favour in his defensive third.

If he still won't shut up, take the opportunity at a stoppage to hold play up and wander over and advise him that he is making an ass of himself and has just cost his team 30 seconds as you've had to come over to chat. Tell him to sit down and that you don't want to hear him for the rest of the game.

I follow the three P's"

Personal - is it directed at me about me? - "Ref, you a a complete idiot" as opposed to "Ref, that was a completely terrible call."
Public - can others hear it? If the spectators can hear him, it's too much in my book.
Persistent - does he continue after he's been told to shut up?

[falcon.7]

I follow the three P's"

Personal - is it directed at me about me? - "Ref, you a a complete idiot" as opposed to "Ref, that was a completely terrible call."
Public - can others hear it? If the spectators can hear him, it's too much in my book.
Persistent - does he continue after he's been told to shut up?

Bingo. Unless it falls under these categories, it's just griping. When the intent moves from just making his thoughts known to trying to affect the game and centering the attention on himself so he can look macho, that's when there's a problem.

On a more cynical note, I believe that if something a coach/player/spectator says is true, like "that was the worst f-ing call in history", and it was, stand there and take it. Don't punish people when they're right. Punish them when they deserve to be punished.

[Rufusabc]

This is one aspect I always wrangle with...

When I was a coach I wasn't the quietest guy, but I was never vindictive. I might have mentioned that "that was a foul". You got to call that...or soemthing like that. But, I never escalated it, and if I was told to pipe down I piped down. I never bothered the AR's at all, becasue I couldn't tell if someone was offside from my position in the TA. And I could care less about possession on a throw because 100 per cent of the time, possession was going to be challanged in the next half second anyway.

The biggest dispute I ever had was with a ref who mailed it in one game. It was a day that broke warmer than the crew thought. Two young AR's and an older CR. All in long sleeved black. Man, were they suffering.

The game was a bit pushy (U13g's), but the CR never called a single foul in the whole game. Not one. And the AR's were unsure of the active play aspect of offside, so there were about 10-12 truly bad offide decisions made. I didn't say anything until the game was over and as I was signing the cards, I mentioned that I had never been involved in a game where there wasn't a single foul called. And I thought the boys were a little unsure of the active play aspect of offside.

The CR then mentioned that he has done several games that year without calling any fouls........There was no need to argue any further.

Referees do make bad calls, coaches do get upset. I think the three 'P's work very well. Keep the coach in check, and you will have a better experience. Let them vent, but don't let them explode. And if they are going to worrry about the direction of a throw, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

I had a coach complain to me (I was acting as a mentor to young officials) that my CR was allowing too much time for a player to tie his shoes and that at this level it shouldn't be done. And He was raising his voice, and I finally walked over and said the referee can do anything he wants for the safety of the players. Oh, did I mention that coach was up 5-0 and it was u8's???

[dncm]

I follow the three P's"

Personal - is it directed at me about me? - "Ref, you a a complete idiot" as opposed to "Ref, that was a completely terrible call."
Public - can others hear it? If the spectators can hear him, it's too much in my book.
Persistent - does he continue after he's been told to shut up?

Like this approach very much


Throw him a bone. Call a few trivial things in his favour in his defensive third.

Do NOT like this approach at all. I am sure I am totally mis-reading that you are suggesting to fabricate some calls for his benefit. Maybe you could explain what you meant by that.

[andymoss]

Do NOT like this approach at all. I am sure I am totally mis-reading that you are suggesting to fabricate some calls for his benefit. Maybe you could explain what you meant by that.

Not fabricate, just call stuff that you might not've otherwise have called. A little shove here, the slightest hint of handling there.

Nothing that will have any real outcome, but something that will help get the coach back on your side.

And as an addition, if I totally miss something, I'll own up to it, tell the coach I missed it, but will catch it next time.

[refereejoe]

Referees should call the game as they see it with consistency, not change what they deem a foul to appease a coach that can't behave properly. Coaches need to behave responsibly even when referees don't give them ticky tack calls in the defensive third. If it is too much for them to handle, they should be dismissed. I never let a coach influence how I call the game unless I feel his concerns are valid and require a change in my approach for the good of the game.

[campbed]

Tell him to sit down and that you don't want to hear him for the rest of the game.

I follow the three P's"

Personal - is it directed at me about me? - "Ref, you a a complete idiot" as opposed to "Ref, that was a completely terrible call."
Public - can others hear it? If the spectators can hear him, it's too much in my book.
Persistent - does he continue after he's been told to shut up?

Bad advice: to tell a (any) coach to sit down, or anything else he does not have to do. It is inflammatory, not helpful to take this tone. Try this in a men's Latin league and see what happens when you've called the coaches honor and manhood into question in front of everyone. Very bad things are about to happen.

Good advice: the 3 P's.

Strike-1 - Coach what are you seeing that I'm not? Lets keep the decent down, I hear you. Lets get the teams playing. (coach keeps his public dignity, and feels heard)

Strike-2 - Coach I've had enough. No more. You're not acting in a responsible manner. If this continues you will be dismissed. Please change your behavior, your team needs you to be here. (everyone knows that coach is in trouble now, all expect coach to be gone next visit)

Strike-3 - You're dismissed, outside the fence past the trash cans, out of sight and sound. Which assistant coach is taking over? (no one is surprised, including the coach)

I'm lucky that I've only been to Strike-2 once, and never to Strike-3. Of course, you can skip right to Strike-2 if P #1 comes into play.

[dncm]

Not fabricate, just call stuff that you might not've otherwise have called. A little shove here, the slightest hint of handling there.

Nothing that will have any real outcome, but something that will help get the coach back on your side.

Although I understand where you are coming from, I do not agree with this approach.

You should call the calls as you see it - not what you "might" call in order to influence the game then based on coach's reactions. A push is a push, not a push is a push only when the coach has been yelling at you. Is this considered unethical behavior?

Would be interested to hear what others have to say on your comment.

[Rufusabc]

Honestly, I have no idea how to even it up, which is what the poster is suggesting. It is sometimes hard enough to stay within the flow of the game and now you are asking me to give a little on a couple of calls.

I had a game with a loud coach last spring. He was un real polite in the pre-game, having his players address me as sir and everything. then the game started! He was on me for every call. I was on him about halfway through the first half. He quieted down a bit, but his team was playing very poorly. And he turned his venom to the players, his OWN players. I have never heard a coach get on a 'keeper for missing one, but that's what he did and the game went downhill after that. His team got beat 4-2, and his boys got a free very late in the game in a primo spot from which they scored their second, and he was all over me about "now..you call it."

I think giving a foul back is dangerous. I would never do it, never recommend it, and would lobby hard against its use. Way too many pitfalls. Especially if the coach (who really does hate you no matter what you do) smells a rat.

Call the game in front of you. It's like telling your kids not to lie. It's fareasier to tell the truth because then you only have to remember one story.

[andymoss]

At the end of the day, it's all about game management.

Is a foul at U8 the same as a foul at U19? Sure it is, but the big boys can and do play though a tap to the ankle that would have a U8 player on the floor.

If a game is getting out of control, you tighten it up, calling everything until the players decide they want to play again. You are still calling fouls, just smaller, less significant stuff that you'd've let go, or the players would've expected to be allowed as trifling or insignificant.

A coach can't very well continue to say I'm not calling anything, particularly not calling anything his way if I've just given him three calls. Three calls to relieve the pressure his defence is under. When they a 4-0 down.

And to the point of trying it with a Hispanic coach, no, I wouldn't. Nor would I do it with a female coach necessarily. Nor would I do it with any coach if I thought the situation was such that it would backfire. But I would do it quietly, so only he heard, so as not to insult him or undermine his authority.

It's all about reading the game, knowing what will work, when and with whom. I wasn't generalizing saying that I'd do this every single time.

It also depends on you and your personality and your mood.

Do what works for you. Agree with me or don't. Your approach may not be right for me. That's what makes this such a fantasic, fascinating sport.

[refereejoe]

It's one thing to adjust your foul threshold when the players start getting out of hand, but it's a totally different thing to do the same against one team solely to try and appease a misbehaving coach. You, in essence, are advocating that we punish the other team because their opponent's coach is unable to control himself. Personally, I'd rather you punish the coach and leave the other team alone. It actually makes me a bit sick to think there are referees out there who feel this is somehow appropriate.

[Rufusabc]

I think Refjoe has a solid point. Say Red is up 4-0 on Blue, and Red's behavior the entire game has been exemplary. Blue's coach is beside himself with the way his team has played, the color of your shirt, the cloud cover, whatever....he's taking it out on you. Red hasn't done anything wrong except play the game the way it is supposed to be played. Don't give in to Blue. Call the game that presents itself not the game that's in your mind. The game is in front of you on the pitch. It isnt in the TA or on the parents sideline or in the crowd. It is the 22 on the field. Keep it there and you will minimize your problems.

[ctreferee]

for me 2 things will get a coach immediatly ejected.
1) Fould language directed at myself, AR's, or opposing teams officials/players
2)Questioning my integrity(ex. your a complete homer, or how much extra they paying you)

besides that i will usually ignore the 1nd outburst, have a chat on the 2nd one, and eject on the 3rd.

Only have had to go to 3 once, and that was during a state final when a team was being totally outplayed and was loosing badly with about 5 min to go, the coach decided to go on a tyrade over a midfield foul and refused to leave after being ejected, causing me to also have my first ever termination.

[refereejoe]

Not to pick on you, ctreferee, but I've seen/heard a few referees take your approach. It sounds fine, except you are letting the coach off the hook on his first outburst. Why? The very second a coach starts to cross the line I'm on him like a pile of bricks. Nip the dissent in the bud the second it crosses that threshold, that way you never let it escalate to a second or third occurance. Not recommending the referee be nasty or mean, but at least address the situation.

First outburst: "Coach, I have no problem with you disagreeing with a call, but let's try to keep things positive."

Second outburst: "Alright coach, that's about enough. If I have to come over here again it won't be to chat." (Also a fun time to try the line, "Hey coach, you got an assistant? Start warming him up.)

Third outburst: "Pack your things coach, you're dismissed."

Still give them the 3 strikes and your out routine (unless any one occurance deserves more, of course), but be proactive in each instance. Never let the coaches or players "get away with one" in hopes it doesn't escalate. Seize control from the very start and your life becomes much easier!

[CDM76]

I had a match a few weeks ago where there was lots of controversy.

Calls occurred in the following order:

Offside where my AR deemed an attacker in an offside position distracted the keeper on a screaming strike from about 20 yards. Had to wave off goal for Red.

PK to Red for a charge to the back on a player facing away from the goal. Red converted PK.

Keeper had a hand -> ball -> ground situation where an attacker knocked the ball away and scored. I was screened and had to confer with the AR. Again, had to wave off Red goal.

Guess who I had the problem with? The Blue coach!

After the PK call, he complained. I understood and ignored him.

After the PK, he complained. I made eye contact and nodded to him.

Just prior to the KO, he complained. I walked halfway to the touch so I was about 10 yards away and announced, "Coach, I heard you the first two times. If I hear you a fourth time, I will have to ask you to leave the area. Are we clear, sir?" He nodded and we went on with the game.

After the match, he explained that everyone knows calls in the box are held to a different standard than calls in other parts of the field. I told him I didn't referee that way and we agreed to disagree.

BTW: The match ended in a draw and both coaches agreed it was a fair result but neither was satisfied with the way I called the match. Blue was upset over the PK. Red claimed that the keeper had to have both hands on the ball to be in control of the ball.

[pasoccerdave]

As I am putting the whistle to my mouth to award a throw-in (to the blue team no less) and the red bench/coaches say "Its out." I whistle, indicate blue throw and the blue coach goes ballistic.

The blue coach goes ballistic when he is awarded a throw in?

Maybe he should switch to decaf?

[CanadaFTW]

Not fabricate, just call stuff that you might not've otherwise have called. A little shove here, the slightest hint of handling there.

Nothing that will have any real outcome, but something that will help get the coach back on your side.

And as an addition, if I totally miss something, I'll own up to it, tell the coach I missed it, but will catch it next time.

By adopting this approach you are rewarding the coach for abusing you, which in turn makes it more likely that he will go on the same way in future matches. Not to mention, if the opposing coach feels you are being cowed by the other coach freaking out, he is likely to freak out at the next call that doesn't go his way. This solution may work for a match, and in turn may work for a while, but it will blow up in your face at some point.

[GKbenji]

I follow the three P's"

Personal - is it directed at me about me? - "Ref, you a a complete idiot" as opposed to "Ref, that was a completely terrible call."
Public - can others hear it? If the spectators can hear him, it's too much in my book.
Persistent - does he continue after he's been told to shut up?

I add two more P's (one already mentioned):
Profane - is it vulgar? Not rising to the level of straight FOAL, but worse than normal? - "That's a bad call" vs "That's a bull$4i+ call".
Partner - I have a lower bar of tolerance if they are on my AR's.


Coach what are you seeing that I'm not?


Careful with anything that invites the coach to respond. If you say this, you might just be opening yourself up for a real barrage.