Invasion of the Card Snatchers

[USSF REF]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIiaXWq1KHY

Good clip to learn from, or at least to watch for the memory banks.

Good decisions by the referee to send both off.

But did he miss something first that also deserved a sending off? I'm not going to comment. Anymore than that.

[Nesto]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIiaXWq1KHY

Good clip to learn from, or at least to watch for the memory banks.

Good decisions by the referee to send both off.

But did he miss something first that also deserved a sending off? I'm not going to comment. Anymore than that.

Wow, how crazy! Even before the player snatched the card, #11 had a grip on the referee's wrist to try to prevent him from showing red.

[campton]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIiaXWq1KHY

Good clip to learn from, or at least to watch for the memory banks.

Good decisions by the referee to send both off.

But did he miss something first that also deserved a sending off? I'm not going to comment. Anymore than that.


After looking at the numbers of the players it is clear it should haveen reduced to 8 men. #11 was fouled, then attempted to strike an opponent. After the referee failed to see it, then the player grabbed him to stop the send off of his teammte. (IMO two send off offenses in a 50 second spurt. 18 hit the player. 19 grabbed the card. I suspect there to be suspensions for all of these players. at the beggining he made an attempt to slap the oppononent. In my oppinoin, that match should have been reduced to eight men. gold star to the referee though. HE handled it well.

I have seen the card snatched 3 times before. Once a player whom i knew very well stole my yellow as i was booking him. But it was all in good fun.

#11 (fouled) then attempts to strike opponent.
#18 the striking.
#19

[Colin (Ref - NH)]

Here is the order of misconduct as I saw it:

1) White player on the ground looks like he's trying to pull his opponent down. (Caution) 00:05

2) White player comes over and pushes red to the ground. (Send Off - looks to me more than a shove; if only for game control he needs to go) 00:07

3) 2 White players physically stop referee from issuing card by holding his arm down. (Send Off)* 00:16

4) White player grabs red card. (Send Off) 00:20

5) White? goal keeper comes half way across the field to engage in debate, eventually pushes red player.** 00:23

* In this situation I would only have shown red to one of the players, let the other one stay.

** I think that with all the cards being issued it isn't necessary to caution the goal keeper for this.

In all I would have sent off 3 players; Mano(#18) for hit to face, Guedes(#19) for physical contact with the referee, and Zequinha(#9) for grabbing the card.

I couldn't beleive he didn't send off Guedes for holding his arm. This is completely unacceptable, and I hope FIFA sanctioned him afterwards.

Curious as to what other people think of this.

Edit:I see campton and Nesto posted at the same time as me. I am glad to see a similar response.

- Colin

[OhRef]

Quite an interesting event.
White 11 fouled by 13 Red. As White 11 was lying on the ground he struck out at a Red player. Why would he do this?
It appears as if 14 Red may have made contact (kick) while he was on the ground which was followed by more contact by Red 8 ( I think I have this # correct, it may be 6) Red 14 continues to walk away even after the skirmish begins. The 2 players sent off for White were very well deserved and you could make a case for White 11 as well. I wonder why the referee and AR did not confer as to whether there was any involvement by Red 14 & 8 which led to the retaliation by White 18

[Chubbywubby]

Am I the only one seeing Chile #13 give a forearm to the back of the head of Portugal #11 as they're getting up from the initial foul? -- which for my money is what started the whole melee.

Wasn't this from the U20 WC?

Edit: U20 WC round of 16, 7/12/07.

[Kebbie Gazauzkas]

5) White? goal keeper comes half way across the field to engage in debate, eventually pushes red player.** 00:23

That's the Chilean goalkeeper, he is trying to restrain his own teammate, so that he does not involve himself in the melee.

A very bizarre situation, I guess the ref did not want to reduce the Portuguese to 8 men, because it would have led to additional arguments. However, he was certainly being manhandled by Guedes.
Arturo Vidal (Chile) was also ejected (second yellow) for time wasting 4 minutes after these events.

What led to the fracas - one of the Chilean players may have attempted to slap the fallen Portuguese footballer, which could have triggered Mano's reaction, but I am not completely sure....

[hefftheref]

i wouldnt send off 11, i see stuff like this all the time at this level.

i agree with 18 and 9 (obviously!)

[Tarheel Ref]

Agreeing with an earlier poster: WOW!!!

On another thread a couple of months ago I addressed these types of situations but it was kind of off-topic for that thread but I was clearly out front on this issue.

Here's the link to that post but I'll also just copy/paste my words as well below.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12870975#post12870975

Re: USA:BRA WWC Semifinal [R] posted30 Sep 2007, 07:55 AM BigSoccer Member

Join Date: May 2007
Club: Washington Redskins
Location: Chapel Hill, NC

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufusabc http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/images/bigsoccer/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12869227#post12869227)
I guess you didnt see the Man U-Chelsea match where the Chelsea players attempted to prevent the referee from pulling the red out of his back pocket by holding his arm down!!! That's one way to prevent the card from coming out!!R

I tell you what......

If I'm moving in any direction at any time for any reason and ANY PLAYER makes deliberate contact with me and tries to or succeeds at preventing me from doing whatever it is at the time I'm trying to do...I will only succeed at completing the task at hand and then directly and immediately turn and deal with the second issue that tried to prevent me from doing whatever the first issue needed to be done.

Run-on sentence and sorry for that but...if I'm dealing with an action that causes me to go for my red card (and everybody knows that when a ref reaches for his back right pocket something serious has either happened or is about to happen) it will most definitely come out. Grabbing me as I'm pulling it out only means that more ink will be committed to paper in the same column of the match report. Don't touch me!

Allowing players to make physical contact while dissenting with referees is something everybody sees during a lot of international matches (at least I do when I'm watching them). The fact that the behavior of players (and coaches and spectators sometimes) is threatening and aggressive is generally ignored in favor of speculation as to the reasons for disagreement with the original call; eventually these actions trickle down to the youth, HS and local adult-leagues and that behavior is then emulated by some percentage of all players and coaches (not 100 percent or anything close to that...I'm not generalizing!). It is preventable but not being prevented (or even at least aggressively combated).

Check out these stories of violence during sporting events of all types...almost all of us have probably either seen a link to this site or are members....

http://www.naso.org/sportsmanship/badsports.html

[Tarheel Ref]

...and upon further review...

I would also SERIOUSLY consider filing assault charges (probably to be dropped later) in a situation like this...not to be an A$$ but to make my point CRYSTAL clear that that behavior such as we saw is dangerous and will NOT happen again on MY field. Again: Don't touch me!

I believe Alberto might back me up on this strategy....

[Tarheel Ref]

Quite an interesting event.

"Interesting" you say?

Awfully mellow POV there...:rolleyes:

Although my ex-girlfriend only attended a very few of my matches, at the moment the player was GRABBING the ref...per my pre-game instructions to her...she would have been getting the car started and lookin' for me to be heading her way...QUICKLY!

Anytime one of my friends or family goes with me to a match I remind them that...although it is EXTREMELY unlikely...something really really bad might happen and I might need to make like a bunch of birds and get the flock outta there. They need to remember that they're with the least popular team on the field. Plus I don't need to give that warning very often...who wants to watch the only guy on the field who DOESN'T want to play the ball...or have the ball play him?

It can be a very lonely feeling out there sometimes...

If y'all can't tell this subject matter has apparently struck a big-time nerve in me somewhere...

[campton]

My league (NISL) takes very good disciplinary actions towards anything witht he referee. In my 2nd year, a kid was sent off for his second caution. After the red, he took it and threw it.

3 games for his 2nd red of season.
+5 for the referfee abuse.

[Tarheel Ref]

My league (NISL) takes very good disciplinary actions towards anything witht he referee. In my 2nd year, a kid was sent off for his second caution. After the red, he took it and threw it.

What an idiot!!! And I'm REALLY confident in speculating that that dude got a seriously unimpressive distance on that little flat piece of plastic!:D

[campton]

What an idiot!!! And I'm REALLY confident in speculating that that dude got a seriously unimpressive distance on that little flat piece of plastic!:D


Actually, i remember it well. It was very windy. It flew pretty far. I chased it down for him though :).

[Tarheel Ref]

Actually, i remember it well. It was very windy. It flew pretty far. I chased it down for him though :).

Watching that video sequence unfold my first impression was that after that ref's red card was snatched he was not impressed and whipped out a backup red card. Not sure if that's what actually happened but from now on I'll be carrying BOTH sets of my cards...

[campton]

Watching that video sequence unfold my first impression was that after that ref's red card was snatched he was not impressed and whipped out a backup red card. Not sure if that's what actually happened but from now on I'll be carrying BOTH sets of my cards...

That would be the most epic thing... ever

[Tarheel Ref]

That would be the most epic thing... ever

MOST??? EVER??? :confused:

Just givin' ya a hard time LOL:D

[blech]

Watching that video sequence unfold my first impression was that after that ref's red card was snatched he was not impressed and whipped out a backup red card. Not sure if that's what actually happened but from now on I'll be carrying BOTH sets of my cards...

I thought that as well the first time I saw it, but was pretty certain on a second viewing that he succeeded in quickly snatching back his original card. I had the same reaction - wow, he got that second card out first. I supppose a reason to carry a second, but I wouldn't let a player having swiped my card stop me from pointing him to the parking lot!!!

[HeadHunter]

I always have two sets of cards on me (the pair in my shorts - yellow in front right and red in back right - and a pair in my left shirt pocket) not for this issue- though I can see how it would come in handy, but because I was really taken by something a poster on here said several years ago about the distiction between needing to pull a quick card, and the times when you would want to make more of a show out of it to slow things down and cool people off and how having cards in different places could enable this.

[andymoss]

I always have two sets of cards on me (the pair in my shorts - yellow in front right and red in back right - and a pair in my left shirt pocket) not for this issue- though I can see how it would come in handy, but because I was really taken by something a poster on here said several years ago about the distiction between needing to pull a quick card, and the times when you would want to make more of a show out of it to slow things down and cool people off and how having cards in different places could enable this.

I carry my cards and notebook in the same places and always two sets - just in case a player wants the card card that I "just gave him" - although I don't give cards, players earn them - and also for those situations where a quick-draw yellow is appropriate to defuse a situation.

That said, don't forget that the displaying of the card is purely ceremonial and is not actually required (same as the use of a whistle).

Sequence:

- Player does something daft.
- I talk to player about doing something daft and caution him as to his future conduct. Or dismiss him from the match.
- Show player card.

Although I will admit the showing of the card is expected from all, particularly the muppet parents who can't even take the time to read the laws....

Yes, I did a JAR yesterday, and yes, I'm still annoyed at the morons who show their abject lack of sportsmanship, class and knowledge and pass these things on to their little darlings who then beleive that dissent and abuse is acceptable.