Balancing Travel Team and JV School Team

[lewp]

Our U14 travel team is facing a dilemma. A large number of the girls on our team want to eventually play on the (same) high-school varsity team, and this spring they have to make a decision about whether to play on the Jr Varsity team (most are 8th graders, and they can play JV, but not varsity), or on the Travel Team, or to attempt to balance both.

We don't want to shut the team down in the spring (the girls not playing JV would lose out, our professional coach would be unhappy, etc.,.. and it's just JV, after all), but we don't want to prevent girls from playing JV either, because it might put them in better stead for varsity. Ideally we might like some accomodation from the JV coach to allow our JV girls to practice with the Travel team once per week. The fallback, I suppose, is to have the JV girls just show up at games and miss Travel practices.

So this must be a common dilemma. My question is, how have other people dealt with this balancing act, and how has it worked out? Should this be an either-or choice? Is it too much to expect some of our girls to do both? Is it too much to expect any accomodation from the JV coach (we have certainly done much to develop her players, and will continue to do so)?

Thanks for any feedback...

[Val1]

I can't help you much there, because it is a battle that I'm fighting and my girls have only been together for one season part-time and they will have only one full season under their belt before they go off to play scholastically. And this is for middle school teams. Regardless of your skill and passion as a coach, I think most travel teams and rec leagues will "lose" to the middle school and high school. Unless you really are developing Div I talent, the allure of playing for your school is too great because school is where there the peers are: your girls are at school 6-7 hours a day, and there are boys there. No matter how much you've developed them, for most kids, playing high school ball is what they feel they've been developed for.

I don't have a very good relationship with the MS coach in my town, he's trying to grow "his" program (which I have to respect, as I'm trying to grow my program), but he doesn't know soccer and he NEVER returns phone calls, so I can't talk to him. I like the HS coach in my area, but he told me once that he was looking to take over the boys program (which has me as an advocate of girls programs in general steamed). I've deciced that I'm going to apply for the position of the girls coach at the parochial school (and while smaller than the public school, half of my girls go there, so I'll have real talent if I get the job).

Ultimately, I think you'll need to make some accomodation, because if your situation is like mine, you'll lose.

[KevTheGooner]

I don't have a very good relationship with the MS coach in my town, he's trying to grow "his" program (which I have to respect, as I'm trying to grow my program), but he doesn't know soccer and he NEVER returns phone calls, so I can't talk to him. I like the HS coach in my area, but he told me once that he was looking to take over the boys program (which has me as an advocate of girls programs in general steamed). I've deciced that I'm going to apply for the position of the girls coach at the parochial school (and while smaller than the public school, half of my girls go there, so I'll have real talent if I get the job).

Ultimately, I think you'll need to make some accomodation, because if your situation is like mine, you'll lose.


I think that's probably the best solution to this problem everywhere. Plus that way you'd actually get paid to coach...what a concept!

Do most schools require coaches to have some sort of teaching certification as well?

[Val1]

Used to be schools required that coaches be under-contract teachers, not just certified to teach, but as the number of schools increased in the late 80s, every school district at some point had serious shortages and got used to granting exemptions. And as scholastic sports have become bigger and bigger business, lots of school districts have just deleted this requirement. For me, in this case, the school is a private school and can do whatever it wants. No teacher has wanted to be the girls coach for over a decade, so I am pleasantly optimistic, but we'll see. My 6th graders all go to public school and it is my 5th graders who mostly go to this school, so time is on my side.

[Kevin8833]

Highschool is a huge deal to kids, in travel soccer you get to play year round and high school is only a few months, if they are practicing anyways with their high school team at least they are playing just have them go to games, this way they are still a part of both teams and it is not to much of a demanding schedule, this is how my travel coach worked things back when I played.

[loghyr]

How is this different from any other multi-sport question?

I.e., if the kids were playing basketball right now and could make it to both
practices, would you encourage them to do so?

My son did cross-country this way - he practiced 5 times a week right after school and then twice a week, he practiced on his competitive team. Sometimes he would be dead after a cross-country practice, but he still went to all of his practices.

I would expect the same for him with MS soccer.

[saabrian]

It's really unfortunate. Here in NY, the scholastic season is in the fall and the club season is most of the rest of the year. There is not really any overlap.

I don't know how often the club team trains, but most school teams have either games or practices at least 5 days a week. So it would be pretty unreasonable to ask, let alone expect, the girls to do both.

[saabrian]

How is this different from any other multi-sport question?

I.e., if the kids were playing basketball right now and could make it to both
practices, would you encourage them to do so?


I'm not really an advocate of this either. School sports are so time intensive (5-6 days a week, 1-2 hours a day... more on game days) that it dominates kids' free time.

The thing with them playing both club and school soccer at the same time is that it's practically begging for repetitive use injuries. If they're playing a different sport, then at least they're stressing different muscles to some extent.

A lot depends on what the other sport is. If it's a low impact other sport like bowling or golf, then it's less of a big deal. If they're doing track, it might be tough but if they're doing field events, it might be more feasible. If the other sport is, say, basketball or hockey, you're going to kill the kid. Everyone needs recovery time, especially kids who are still growing.

[loghyr]

Everyone needs recovery time, especially kids who are still growing.

The school sports are considered to be PE. They have 3 seasons and have to pick a sport for each one. He doesn't like football, basketball, or baseball - which really limits his options. But he is learning to love running.

They go an hour, which includes stretching to warm up - it appears they share the same stretching in at least all of the sports my son had tried. They will hit a weight room once a week. (I think they focus on small weights and proper form/technique. I wasn't too happy about this at first.)

With soccer, they seem to focus more on scrimmages. His club team focuses more on skills.

[KevTheGooner]

How is this different from any other multi-sport question?

I.e., if the kids were playing basketball right now and could make it to both
practices, would you encourage them to do so?

My son did cross-country this way - he practiced 5 times a week right after school and then twice a week, he practiced on his competitive team. Sometimes he would be dead after a cross-country practice, but he still went to all of his practices.

I would expect the same for him with MS soccer.

I think its very different from the multi-sport question because the chances of getting a quality basketball coach are much higher than getting a quality soccer coach, especially for middle school and especially for girls. Our middle school girls soccer coach knows next to nothing about the game whereas the girls basketball coach played some JuCo ball.

[NHRef]

the vast majority of the local travel teams, from U14 up don't exist here in the fall. There are some U14 teams, but not many and U15+ simply don't exist in the local league. In the spring they do, in fact we have 5 divisions of U15+ in the spring.

Our school, and most in this area, have a rule that says if a school athelete misses a school practice/game or other team event due to a schedule conflict with a non-school team, they are removed from the school team.

It's simple, school teams take precedence.

[newsocdad]

I think this is something to communicate at tryouts for the travel team. It is really at that point in time when you want parents, players and the club to reach an understanding on what will happen in terms of playing for a school team versus playing on the club team. Obviously that decision can go either way, but everyone should know upfront.

At U14 in my area most clubs with competitive teams require that the players commit to a full year schedule. At U15 and up, the club teams break for the school season. It is possible that a specific teams might decide to play full year, but that is pretty rare, and they would have to be pretty high level to make it worthwhile (regional league and tournaments) as there really are no local leagues playing during the school season. I have heard some clubs in larger population areas are starting to require full-year play (does Eclipse in IL do that?), but no one is doing that yet in my area.

[uniteo]

Unless you're at a very high level with the club team I would expect you'll want the girls to play j.v. soccer. In my experience the strides they make in thier commitment to and understanding of the game (mostly because of the high level of commitment) more than make up for the drawbacks (I'll get into that in a bit). I had no problem fielding a club team while my girls were playing j.v. but once they hit junior year, when they're playing varsity, which requires a greater commitment, in addition to reaching the age where they're working and driving...well I tried that but will not be fielding a team during the school season (you may want to do a tournament or two post-season).

You'll find in the next year you'll transition (in terms of players) to the group that is really into the sport...and it's wonderful from a practice standpoint. The girls will be fit and sharp from practicing every day. I did the math one time and figured that over the course of 1 season they practice more than in their entire lifetime of playing to that point. It makes a big difference.

Plus having played school sports, there's a great deal of pride from pulling on that jersey and representing something more than just your group of 15 or 20. And as a coach, I've been fortunate enough to go to games where I have 5 or 6 players on the field, showing as the more dangerous ones, and can take a lot of pride in that (though when they're going against one another it's like 'please nobody get hurt').

There are drawbacks of course, the main one for me is that the high school teams my players are on tend to be very basic tactically, much more run and gun than I would like. And I do not expect the HS girls to practice during their season because I think the physical strain is too much...they're basically going to be playing or practicing 6 days a week for 10 to 12 weeks...I think an extra 30 hours of practice over that time would lead to injuries...I can't say I'm right, but I can say I've avoided serious injuries on my team (knock on wood).

Anyway, I've found that Fall season (when HS soccer is played here) is about keeping the team together, and in spring I have to re-train them in how we play, but I think the group stayed more committed and cohesive for having played fall ball, at least the first 2 years.

[nymetrobulls]

Or you could just make the travel practices later in the afternoons and on weekends. That is what my team did. I didn't have a problem balancing both travel and varsity teams.

[DoctorK]

Tremendous amount of tension between scholastic and club soccer in my neck of the woods. Club soccer is at least 9-10 months a year here. For the most competitive players it is year-round. When I coached high school varsity, I was often frustrated by club coaches telling their players to sit out (often key) varsity matches. The "college showcase" is especially compelling, as parents are shelling out sometimes thousands to the club in hopes of securing scholarships. My institutional memory argument worked sometimes ("No one will remember your club win, but a school championship gets a banner on the gym wall," etc.).

The schools made it much more complicated this fall by scheduling many more matches on Saturdays, hurting not just clubs but even youth soccer programs in the process (making scheduling field usage a nightmare!).

Now that I'm coaching men's DII, in terms of recruits we don't favor club over scholastic success. Either one can impress, though certain clubs do have a certain pedigree.

As a teen in upstate NY, my high school didn't have a boys varsity program and refused to let us play for any rival schools. So club was the only option. Back then (the early 80s) it was scholastic success that seemed to most impress college coaches. But now there's at the very least a shift in perception amongst parents that the club game is what is most important.

As for training and certs, in NY at least, certified teachers have first pick of all coaching positions in public schools. Private schools, though, pay much better and more often than not just want the best coach available. The public school coaching positions are much more visible, though, in terms of the community. I've coached at both public and private high schools, and though the pay and institutional support was better at the private school, the thrill of coaching the team that represents the village is special.

[saabrian]

Or you could just make the travel practices later in the afternoons and on weekends. That is what my team did. I didn't have a problem balancing both travel and varsity teams.

It's a lot to ask of a teenager to spend 1.5-2 hours practicing with their school team and then ask them to do the same about of training with the club team. Then after spending 3-4 hours on the soccer field (plus travel time), they have to eat dinner and do their homework. You're not going to improve a player by killing them physically.

[nymetrobulls]

It's a lot to ask of a teenager to spend 1.5-2 hours practicing with their school team and then ask them to do the same about of training with the club team. Then after spending 3-4 hours on the soccer field (plus travel time), they have to eat dinner and do their homework. You're not going to improve a player by killing them physically.

I've been doing it for the past two years and it wasn't that bad. Club practicae isn't every day. And you will only be balancing both only for about two months since the HS season is pretty short.

[saabrian]

I've been doing it for the past two years and it wasn't that bad. Club practicae isn't every day. And you will only be balancing both only for about two months since the HS season is pretty short.

Well you're a Red Bulls fan so it's obvious you don't know much about soccer anyways. :)

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it's a lot to ask. To have a kid spend two hours training with his school team and then two more hours with his club after a full day of school doesn't leave much time for homework or, heaven forbid, relaxation (recovery). I'm not sure what the club game schedule is like but most HS teams play 2-3 games a week. All this gives a player precious little time for recovery (totally leaving aside anything else in their life). I'm not saying it can't be done but you're absolutely begging for a repetitive stress injury this way. Especially since many players never take even a month or two break from soccer... something even top professionals must do.

The only mitigating factors might be if the club team had practices on Sunday, when presumably the HS team doesn't practice. And if the club team's training is fairly light on days when it follows the HS's team.

[nymetrobulls]

Well you're a Red Bulls fan so it's obvious you don't know much about soccer anyways. :)

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it's a lot to ask. To have a kid spend two hours training with his school team and then two more hours with his club after a full day of school doesn't leave much time for homework or, heaven forbid, relaxation (recovery). I'm not sure what the club game schedule is like but most HS teams play 2-3 games a week. All this gives a player precious little time for recovery (totally leaving aside anything else in their life). I'm not saying it can't be done but you're absolutely begging for a repetitive stress injury this way. Especially since many players never take even a month or two break from soccer... something even top professionals must do.

The only mitigating factors might be if the club team had practices on Sunday, when presumably the HS team doesn't practice. And if the club team's training is fairly light on days when it follows the HS's team.

That last paragraph is what I meant. I had my club practice on the weekends during HS season. Not that I would know what I'm talking about though because I'm a Red Bulls fan.:)

[DoctorK]

Well you're a Red Bulls fan so it's obvious you don't know much about soccer anyways. :)

I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm just saying it's a lot to ask. To have a kid spend two hours training with his school team and then two more hours with his club after a full day of school doesn't leave much time for homework or, heaven forbid, relaxation (recovery).

I'm just a Red Bulls fan, too, so take this with a grain of salt, but two hours is too long of a training session. Two of them in a day? Too much!