The ultimate Eurosnob argument killer

[timotheus]

Doesn't it irk you that some eurosnobs put down the MLS because the Premiership (or Serie A or La Liga) have much better quality than this upstart
American league?

Yeah, me too.

Here's the killer thought.

If that is an eurosnob position, then I guess all those people in the UK who support Brentford are idiots. They could be watching Chelsea and they support this piddly club! Same for the Crystal Palace supporters - they could be rooting for Arsenal! Idiots! And Barnsley! And those morons from Swansea!? They could be Man Yoo fans!

The majority of UK football fans are idiots it seems, as they don't support the cool, happening teams in the Prem. How can Eurosnobs explain this phenomenon of supporting lower quality teams?

PS
Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this. Had to get this off my chest.

[Smoga]

Bad argument, and your reasoning can be easily turned against you. One of the key complaints about MLS is that it doesn't have prom/rel. By supporting a lower league team in say, the Premiership, the fan still has hope of his/her team making it at the top level.

[Gordon EF]

Doesn't it irk you that some eurosnobs put down the MLS because the Premiership (or Serie A or La Liga) have much better quality than this upstart
American league?

Yeah, me too.

Here's the killer thought.

If that is an eurosnob position, then I guess all those people in the UK who support Brentford are idiots. They could be watching Chelsea and they support this piddly club! Same for the Crystal Palace supporters - they could be rooting for Arsenal! Idiots! And Barnsley! And those morons from Swansea!? They could be Man Yoo fans!

The majority of UK football fans are idiots it seems, as they don't support the cool, happening teams in the Prem. How can Eurosnobs explain this phenomenon of supporting lower quality teams?

PS
Sorry if this is the wrong forum for this. Had to get this off my chest.

That is shockingly bad logic. People tend to support teams becasue they come from a certain area or because of who their father supports, certainly in the UK anyway. There are obviously people who just try to support the best teams to try and reflect a little of that team's glory onto themselves. Most football fans would find this pathetic.

The fact that I support a relatively (always a crucial word in these types of arguments) poor team, by Scottish standards, does not make the slightest differance how I would compare the Scottish league to any other league, why would it?

The top European leagues are obviously better than the MLS. The English Premier League has a much higher standard of player than MLS, this is plainly obvious.

[bk4realyall]

It is not putting the MLS down to say that La Liga, the Premiership, and Serie A are more entertaining, more competitive, or simply better. I have friends who do not like football at all, but will watch cl, epl, and la liga. I tried to show them an MLS match once and they got bored.

In british terms, the MLS is about on level somewhere between league 1 and Championship. These leagues serve as a platform to jump from to try and get into the premiership. And like the other smaller leagues of the world, Americans need to use the MLS as a springboard to try to get into the premiership, la liga, or serie a.

Getting americans into la liga and serie a would really be the ultimate killer for this argument.

[MNAFETSC]

Bad argument, and your reasoning can be easily turned against you. One of the key complaints about MLS is that it doesn't have prom/rel. By supporting a lower league team in say, the Premiership, the fan still has hope of his/her team making it at the top level.

Yah the biggest american eurosnobs ive seen support crap clubs. I guess it make them feel more of a "hardcore supporter' by doing this even though theyll never see the club live.

[drahnier]

In british terms, the MLS is about on level somewhere between league 1 and Championship. These leagues serve as a platform to jump from to try and get into the premiership. And like the other smaller leagues of the world, Americans need to use the MLS as a springboard to try to get into the premiership, la liga, or serie a.
Let's not overestimate how amazing low-level English football is.

Surely MLS isn't below the championship.
At least in player quality.


Getting americans into la liga and serie a would really be the ultimate killer for this argument.
Hardly, because your league would still suck as all the best native players would leave.

The Swedish league exports players to big leagues all the time, and it's still a crappy league that gets no respect from anyone.

[bk4realyall]

Let's not overestimate how amazing low-level English football is.

Surely MLS isn't below the championship.
At least in player quality.


The absolute best players in the MLS have been able to play on bottom level premier teams, and top level championship teams. Derby County is a championship team on most days and a premier league team on their best, but it is head and shoulders above the MLS even on its worst days. If an MLS team were to come and play in Championship, I believe they would be a team to bounce and forth between Championship and League 1.


Hardly, because your league would still suck as all the best native players would leave.

The Swedish league exports players to big leagues all the time, and it's still a crappy league that gets no respect from anyone.

This would be the fastest way for MLS to get the most respect. I'm not saying the MLS would be looked at like the EPL, la liga or serie a. I'm saying people would respect the league as it would prove that it is a league capable of finding/producing quality players who can play in the top leagues in the world. It would take a lot of money and time in order for the MLS to be as respected as la Liga.

At this time, it is a crappy league and very few players have moved to better leagues. So it is not respected because it is crappy, and is further disrespected because it hasn't produced high quality players.

Swedish league gets respect in this manner. It doesn't get the attention worldwide that these leagues get because it is not as competitive nor does it have the funding or world wide television attention; but everyone knows that there are quality players coming from that league. Everyone knows stars come from AIK. How many times do you hear, "there's this awesome player playing for the Colorado Rapids/... he's going to be HUGE in Serie A!"

[solost22]

the original arguement is essentially saying that English fans should support the best teams instead of the smaller clubs and is basically supporting the idea of being a "frontrunner" and liking the best team b/c at the moment they are on top

[gmonn]

the original arguement is essentially saying that English fans should support the best teams instead of the smaller clubs and is basically supporting the idea of being a "frontrunner" and liking the best team b/c at the moment they are on top

I think it's just the opposite. He's championing supporting teams that are poor by global comparison. He's a little mixed up somewhere in there, because there's a difference between supporting a team and wanting to watch high quality footie.

[timotheus]

Mixed up?

OK to clarify:

I am postulating that many eurosnobs put down MLS because it is a crappy league with little talent, unlike big european leagues in which a single player makes more money than an entire MLS team combined with coaches, physios, etc.

My argument is that if that is what eurosnobs think, then how do you explain most european fans supporting their local teams and not going to support the big teams? For example, people in Atalanta do not support Inter or AC Milan....

The answer is that a true fan supports the sport locally.

A fan supports his/her local league, because it is THEIR team, their city, their region. Their local/country pride. They can easily go to watch a match of their local team. It is somewhat harder for an eurosnob in the USA to go watch a Man Yoo match than it is to watch their city's local soccer club...

Hope that clarifies my (complicated?) argument...

PS - more clarifying...
Which does not prevent a fan from watching the Serie A, la Liga or EPL also. I am just sick of MLS being put down because of lack of quality. If that is the main argument to put down the league, why don't we abolish Polish, Romanian, Hungarian leagues and bus their fans to Old Trafford... And also destroy all the teams below the UK Championship, and liquidate organizations such as Swansea, Brentford and the like - after all, their fans support an inferior product...

[gmonn]

Mixed up?

OK to clarify:

I am postulating that many eurosnobs put down MLS because it is a crappy league with little talent, unlike big european leagues in which a single player makes more money than an entire MLS team combined with coaches, physios, etc.

My argument is that if that is what eurosnobs think, then how do you explain most european fans supporting their local teams and not going to support the big teams? For example, people in Atalanta do not support Inter or AC Milan....

The answer is that a true fan supports the sport locally.

A fan supports his/her local league, because it is THEIR team, their city, their region. Their local/country pride. They can easily go to watch a match of their local team. It is somewhat harder for an eurosnob in the USA to go watch a Man Yoo match than it is to watch their city's local soccer club...

Hope that clarifies my (complicated?) argument...

PS - more clarifying...
Which does not prevent a fan from watching the Serie A, la Liga or EPL also. I am just sick of MLS being put down because of lack of quality. If that is the main argument to put down the league, why don't we abolish Polish, Romanian, Hungarian leagues and bus their fans to Old Trafford... And also destroy all the teams below the UK Championship, and liquidate organizations such as Swansea, Brentford and the like - after all, their fans support an inferior product...

People can say they'd rather watch something higher quality without calling for MLS to be abolished. Saying your club's play sucks and saying you shouldn't support it are two different things. I guess you're hearing the second from somebody...

[krudmonk]

Bad argument, and your reasoning can be easily turned against you. One of the key complaints about MLS is that it doesn't have prom/rel. By supporting a lower league team in say, the Premiership, the fan still has hope of his/her team making it at the top level.
That would have been an okay rebuttal before the Premier League broke away and horded the money.

[sidis]

ahaha, and how is the argument to an american who support the cubs?

[bk4realyall]

Here's a way to once again counter your argument:
One of the biggest differences between the MLS and British soccer is in the structure. MLS is structured like other american sports which do not allow for such affiliation with their local teams.
Brits support their local club in hopes that it will one day make it to the premiership. If I am from Ipswitch and support the Ipswitch team, it is perfectly possible for Ipswitch to one day be battling it out at old trafford or at emirates stadium. Where in the US if you are from Charlotte and the only team there plays in the USL or some other smaller level team... that team will never play in the MLS unless there is some sort of restructuring. thus.. why would you want to see a second rate team that has no hope of going anywhere? American soccer does not allow for that local connection to happen. Americans cling to teams that are hundreds of miles away from them as their "local" club. half of the midwestern US is Chicago fans, and the other half is fans of Kansas city or Colorado. There aren't any guys who are supporting the "Springfield Shifters" from Springfield, Kansas not because no one knows who they are (because I made it up), but because the team will never be in the MLS or even the USL. People have to feel a connection to a club to be a true supporter.

As far as quality in the leagues go.... as I said before... no one can say anything about these other european leagues because talent pops up in them all the time before being snatched up and taken to the "big leagues." This is not the case with the MLS. Few brightspots come up and end up playing for relegation and bottom table teams. If there were more Americans stepping up to the level of play in Europe, the MLS would be getting much more respect. I'm not saying that the next Ronaldinho has to come from the U.S., just that more Americans have to get their names onto the rosters of teams like Portsmouth, Manchester City. Think about it... how many Americans are playing in the EPL? 5 or 6? Hell, how many Americans are even in the Serie A or La Liga? 0? How many Americans are in the Champion's League? 1? these are competitive environments that the U.S. must tap into in order to keep up with the footballing world. Once the U.S. gets respect... the MLS will get respect.

[Boloni86]

Timotheus. For your information ... Europe is full of Eurosnobs. I remember a few years ago I went to an Ajax Champions League match in Amsterdam, and going through the station I saw thousands of Ajax supporters coming in from the countryside. I guarantee you that most of these people probably have a 2nd or 3rd division club closer to home they could support.

Another example is when I went to an Ujpest - Debrecen match in Budapest a few years ago. That's one of the biggest fixtures of the year by local standards and there were less than 10,000 people there in a city of 2 million. After the match I passed through a few pubs and in each one there were groups of men watching Bundesliga on TV ... I think it was a key Berlin - Bayern match. I bet there were 20 times more people in Budapest that day watching this game on TV than the supposed big local fixture.

As you can see these people are everywhere. It's a natural tendency for people to latch on to the mega spectacle of top level football with full stadiums and world class players. Hell even I watch games from top Euro leagues for those reasons.

Where I draw the line though is actual support. I enjoy watching the best, but only as a neutral. When it comes to club colors there can only be one, and it has to be something real and tangible ... at least for me. I was raised in the stands watching 2nd rate football in Romania with no more than a few hundred supporters on any given day. We watched crap football, sometimes in blistering cold on a muddy pitch where the ball couldn't roll two yards without sinking. But for us it was bonding with the community, in my case bonding with my grandfather who took me, and watching the beautiful game live which is the best way to watch. Hell when I was a little kid we used to wake up early on Saturday just so we could go out and watch the local amateur leagues.

[RichardL]

Brits support their local club in hopes that it will one day make it to the premiership. If I am from Ipswitch and support the Ipswitch team, it is perfectly possible for Ipswitch to one day be battling it out at old trafford or at emirates stadium.back in the day it would actually have been the dream of an Ipswich fan to look down on both Man Utd and Arsenal, win the UEFA Cup, the FA Cup, and who knows, even win the league title. It used to be possible, as Ipswich achieved all of those.

[drahnier]

Let's be serious, if British fans support their clubs in the hope of being able to win big trophies, most of them are completely self-delusional.

Of course hardcore football fans in general are self-delusional, in the way they put exaggerated importance and meaning in the success of a sports team...but still.

[JumpinJackFlash]

Deep inside every rest of the worldian, there is a love for the eurosnob, come on admit it.
abolish Polish, Romanian, Hungarian leagues and bus their fans to Old Trafford.

The Polish are already two steps ahead of you on that, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5376602.stm

[Gordon EF]

Let's be serious, if British fans support their clubs in the hope of being able to win big trophies, most of them are completely self-delusional.

Of course hardcore football fans in general are self-delusional, in the way they put exaggerated importance and meaning in the success of a sports team...but still.

I doubt many supporters of crap British team support because they dream of seeing them win major trophies. What some people seem unable to grasp is that winning the 3rd division title in Scotland, for an East Fife supporter, means as much (if not more) than it does to a Rangers or Celtic supporter to win the SPL.

It's the same in England. It would bring more joy to Shrewsbury Town supporters if they were to win League 2 than Man Utd supporters would get from winning the Premiership.

[marrypirlo]

You are quite wrong about seria a support of teams, lots of people that live in a different city support another team, you will find very few fans of Juventus in torino, you will find many in Calabria or Sicily or Prato, although it is alot easier to support a team that you live close to in respect of how things work in the US(for one thing people don't move around as much here, the majority are born and raised and die in the same city or within the radius of the city) the MLS just seems to lack everything its just quite boring to watch I'm afraid, it has nothing to do with being eurosnobs, there are lots of good basketball teams here in Italy with quite a few young americans who get sent here for experience by the nba teams but I would much rather watch the NBA.