Bolivar and DC United

[DCUtd]

http://www.la-razon.com/versiones/20071123_006099/nota_252_510379.htm

I found this interesting:

The members (socios) of Bolivar are electing their new president, and in the press in Bolivia there is an interview between the two candidates, Lara and Dips.

"No sólo es Bolívar. ¿Por qué cree que el fútbol boliviano en general está mal?
Soy un convencido de que un equipo de fútbol debe invertir en sus divisiones inferiores, después de la Tahuichi Aguilera no hay nada. No hay un equipo de la Liga que apueste con una economía solvente a la alimentación y a la formación de nuevos valores en Bolivia. Tomé contacto con la Academia Tahuichi, con las divisiones inferiores del DC United, con el grupo Salinas Plego de México, que tienen varios equipos en el fútbol mexicano e incluso con clubes de España, ellos están dispuestos a colaborar con las divisiones inferiores de Bolívar. Ángel Meneces, desde Miami (EEUU)"

I have heard other Bolivians lament the same woes - that outside of Tahuichi, player development isn't significant. But I thought it interesting that Lara says he has had contact with the youth teams at DC United. I presume that means he talks to Etcheverry.

BTW - did anyone see Gardner's article about Tahuichi in SA? I just read it. The guy is an idiot - I can't figure out why I waste my time reading his garbage.

[CHICO13]

Bolivar and DC United? I think my head's going to explode. :o

[Allan Quatermain]

BTW - did anyone see Gardner's article about Tahuichi in SA? I just read it. The guy is an idiot - I can't figure out why I waste my time reading his garbage.


I read it. I thought Gardner was absolutely spot on. If I recall correctly (I read it about a month or so ago), if anyone came across badly in that piece, it was Sunil Gulati and some of the MLS leadership.

Gardner's point was that MLS, which had institutionalized a relationship with Tahuichi in the early years of the league, has in more recent times completely ignored Tahuichi. The school has generated some good prospects in recent years, but it appears that MLS is completely shut off to them.

Anyway, that was the gist of it, and Gardner seemed to me to have a very good point -- namely, that MLS needs to really go after top Tahuichi talent. I have wondered for years why MLS wasn't doing this. Other than Marco, Jaime, and Vaca, has the league had any other grads?

I'd be curious to know why you thought that particular Gardner column was idiotic.


UPDATE -- After discussing this with a friend, he pointed out that Gulati was instrumental in MLS signing a right-of-first-refusal agreement with Tahuichi, but that when he left the MLS front office years ago (to go to Kraft? can't remember), his MLS successors let the agreement die. So my mistake for remembering the Gardner piece incorrectly on this point. As I said, it was over a month ago that I read the piece.

[Eastern Bear]

Mark Lisi actually went to Tahuichi, but I think it was only for a summer.

[BigWave]

Does DC United still send scouts to Tahuichi???

[Bolivianfuego]

Bolivar and DC United? I think my head's going to explode. :o

Haha.


Does anyone got that link of the tahuichi article being talked about above?



And right now a guy i would love to see in the MLS is a bolivian forward by the name of Gustavo Pinedo, hes fast, strong, but lacks experience and playing time from whati have read. He went to Cadiz in the 2nd div. in spain, but then was transfered to Xerez(about to drop to 3rd division) i believe of spain, he was going to go to River Plate before but decided to sign in spain instead. He would be great fit for MLS cause of his speed, and his natural strength. Before becoming pro he was one of tahuichi's top prospects as he had a great showing at i believe the tournament they hold called the Mudialito.

He'd be a great fit for the MLS, i'd love to see him in DC. As fast as Walker, better skill and young at 20 or 19yrs old.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v130/bolivianfuego/Pindeo.jpg

[McOwen]

Does DC United still send scouts to Tahuichi???

Does DC United even have official, paid "scouts?"

I am not kidding. From what I have seen, every player we get comes from a video tape, a coach, or other top level front office person going on recruiting trips.

I have never heard of ANY pro' scouts being paid by DC United to search out talent and have always wondered why not.

Am I missing some department of the team here? Can anyone name an honest to goodness "scout" by name?

[gocaps]

Does DC United even have official, paid "scouts?"
We don't.

I actually asked about this the other day. The scouting budget is basically nothing - it pays for Dave and Tommy to go to South America a couple of times a year and there's nothing left after that.

[ATLGunner]

I'm curious as to whether MLS teams can't come to some sort of agreement with clubs like Arsenal, or Bordeaux/Lyon, and other teams with great scouting networks. Surely their network of scouts come across tons of talent that is not quite good enough for their teams but still very good. We could pay them for their insight, and also give them first refusal rights.

[BigWave]

Does DC United even have official, paid "scouts?"

I am not kidding. From what I have seen, every player we get comes from a video tape, a coach, or other top level front office person going on recruiting trips.

I have never heard of ANY pro' scouts being paid by DC United to search out talent and have always wondered why not.

Am I missing some department of the team here? Can anyone name an honest to goodness "scout" by name?

OK, I'll rephrase. Has DC United sent any "top level front office people" on a recruiting trip to Tahuichi recently? Are they planning to? Do you all think it's a good idea???

[DCUtd]

Does anyone got that link of the tahuichi article being talked about above?


Someone at Tahuichi scanned it and posted it here (http://www.tahuichi.com/pdf/media_sa_0710.pdf).

But there is this blog article (http://5050ball.blogspot.com/2007/11/myth-of-tahuichi-gold-mine.html)that takes exception to it.

[DCUtd]

I'd be curious to know why you thought that particular Gardner column was idiotic.

I have a few minutes, so let me highlight specific things that got my goat.

Even amid the recent sudden, and much belated, interest in signing Latin American players, I have yet to hear anyone mention Tahuichi.

Maybe not, but how many kids coming out of Tahuichi are ready to step into a teams first 11. And if they aren't, aren't MLS reserve teams intended to develop American players? MLS is not a cash cow as is the big European clubs he refers to that bring in kids from all over the world to develop them. Maybe one day they will be, but for now if MLS is going to spend money on bringing foreign players in, the focus is going to be either to improve the product on the field or increase sales. I wish United were in a position where they could bring kids in from all over the world to develop them into the future starting 11, but for now it's not the case.

...we are asked to believe that Etcheverry and MOreno were the only two players of any note that the club has ever produced.

Gardner says this after noting MLS drafted Vaca, now a Bolivian national team player. Plus, I don't remember anyone ever saying Tahuichi sucks. I think at the end of they day MLS was forced to make a budget decision and determine if they were getting the most out of the investment.

As it happens, Tahuichi - which has been in existence since 1978 - has sonehow managed to be more successful at what it doesn than any other program that I'm aware of.

First of all, Garnder has a long relationship with this school, and his bias is well-noted, so for him to say this as if he is an impartial journalist is ridiculous. Secondly, it's ridiculous. In the last 20 years, how many noteworthy players has it produced? Let's just stay on the same continent and ask how many has River, Boca and Palmieras produced in the same timeframe?

Now, let's be fair (unlike Gardner) - the stated purpose of Tahuichi are:

Promote and stimulate youth soccer as healthy recreation and preventive action against drugs, alcoholism and other negative influences on youths.
Provide complimentary health, nutritional and educational services for the children.
Provide for the further development of those children with innate ability and talent to become professional soccer players.
Obtain college scholarships in the USA and other countries for those who aspire and have the vocation to study.
Cultivate unity and peace among nations through soccer and the successful integration of children of the world.

In that sense, it could be the best in the world at that, as I don't think there are many other programs in the world with the same goals to keep kids away from drugs, and prepare them for a pro career or a college scholarship in the US.

Gardner then goes on to note five alums who are playing internationally, but the truth is Bolivia's national team is suffering, and its prospects for the future are not that bright, because for whatever reason the talent pool isn't there.

He then goes on to cite Vaca's MLS experience and all of its negative aspects. I think Vaca's experience goes to highlight how continuing the efforts to bring in kids who weren't ready in a league that doesn't have the means to give these kids the development they need would have been a bad idea.

Anyway, gotta run, there is more that annoyed me that I will try to get to later.

[Bolivianfuego]

Just so you guys know also, Tahuichi financially, lately has been in trouble. Last i heard since the owner's son died, they have been close to closing down.


Right now the biggest school to produce good bolivian players is ex super star, Milton "maravilla" Melgar's soccer school.

IMO the reason why not many kids have flourished in our system in bolivia, is corruption. Guys get old, have crappy agents who dont get them anywhere.

I think a tahuichi/mls pact is needed for the good of bolivia more than US. Bolivian football produces talented players with skill and touch, which i think the MLS lacks. Instead of those kids being fed into the bolivian league, where they will not flourish, and lack money due to not getting paid on time, why not loan out the up and coming superstar recently turned 18 or 19 to a MLS club, if he stinks he gets sent back.


O yea and also to say that bolivia doesnt have a vast talent pool is wrong. We have plenty of talent, the problem is that corruption doesnt let it get cultivated and for it to grow.


Etcheverry and Moreno were lucky,because they grew up in a bolivian Soccer system that wasnt as corrupt as today, They constantly were traveling abroad earning a name for themselves when 14-17. Hell marco won the MVP of the Youth WC for U17, which other great names like del piero joined him as that honor.

Right now theres no money in tahuichi, no money for player development, tehir equipment is poor, hell alot of their all star coaches came here state side to get money, and keep on teaching. I was coached by 2 former Tahuchi coaches(Profesor Cajeta, and Profesor Justiniano). when i was 16-18 when they came states side.


Bottom line, kids will always be good, if you go to bolivia theres constantly poor kids playing street ball doing incredible tricks and moves, because to them thats their life, but to bring that skill and idea to a real grass field and to tame these type of players is the difficult part.

[BigWave]

Just so you guys know also, Tahuichi financially, lately has been in trouble. Last i heard since the owner's son died, they have been close to closing down.


Right now the biggest school to produce good bolivian players is ex super star, Milton "maravilla" Melgar's soccer school.

IMO the reason why not many kids have flourished in our system in bolivia, is corruption. Guys get old, have crappy agents who dont get them anywhere.

I think a tahuichi/mls pact is needed for the good of bolivia more than US. Bolivian football produces talented players with skill and touch, which i think the MLS lacks. Instead of those kids being fed into the bolivian league, where they will not flourish, and lack money due to not getting paid on time, why not loan out the up and coming superstar recently turned 18 or 19 to a MLS club, if he stinks he gets sent back.


I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. This would be especially advisable in the coming years, since MLS may face a dwindling talent pool provided they expand to 18 teams by 2010/11.

[Bolivianfuego]

Yea, We Bolivia need help. The uncorruct US soccer league, MLS would greatly help develop players, and the way this league is growing could be a decent place for a player to stay for his whole career, look at moreno? If not MLS makes bank off a good bolivian talent like as if they were US bred talent if ever a big mexican or decent sized euro' club comes a knockin'

[seahawkdad]

One could believe that, at its heart, DC United has had a Bolivian core.

How does that continue?

On the field? United seems to be looking on the Eastern side of the continent.

Coaching? What role will Marco and, eventually, Jaime, have with United?

[DCUtd]

Right now the biggest school to produce good bolivian players is ex super star, Milton "maravilla" Melgar's soccer school.


Funny you should say that / at the Bolivian consulate here in Buenos Aires they have a huge poster/ad for Melgars school, and there is a picture of Etcheverry in it.

[Bolivianfuego]

Yep. A kid from their acadamy got picked up by real madrid a couple years back. He got a full scholarship for school and board to play for their youth team. This was a couple years back, he was like 14 back then.

[DCUtd]

Yep. A kid from their acadamy got picked up by real madrid a couple years back. He got a full scholarship for school and board to play for their youth team. This was a couple years back, he was like 14 back then.

Is he still there?

[Bolivianfuego]

I havent heard much from bolivian media, i would love to find that out also. I made a thread about it in the bolivia forum, but no one ever responded.


Might have to do some google searching.