Brazil & The Beautiful Game

[kingkong1]

Brazil is generally cited as the nation that symbolizes what has been labeled (mainly under the influence of Nike and its commercials) as 'Jogo Bonito', or 'Joga Bonito'.

In those clips generally black players (Brz in their majority) are shown more as super-heroes & ballet dancers than the flesh-and-bones humans that they really are, all in order to - in a subliminar & indirect way - illustrate the extreme good Nike's soccer shoes do those mortal feet.

So the image that people end up having of them is that they are some sort of magicians, and - since they are magicians - everytime they step on a soccer field they have the obligation to act as Houdinis and perform all sort of tricks & skillful maneuvers.

If that doesn't happen all the time, the same fans who idolize them start accusing them of being 'mercenaries', fake geniuses, and, worse, as 'finnished to football'...

In this Forum, for example, there are many members who openly reveal their sadness for Brazil not be playing beautiful 'anymore'...

When in Brazil players never had the preoccupation of being, in first place, 'artists': skillful & attractive playing always came as a consequence and never as an end in itself...

Their main preoccupation has ever been - in 1st place - with winning: and in that aspect, let's be honest, they are still n°1 in the planet...

But people want more.

The recent example of unnacceptable 'ugly' football presented by Brazil in the 2006 World Cup & the 'injust' victory yesterday against Uruguay in the SA Qualifiers is emblematic: in this last case, Brazil won & the whole world (even many Brazilian spectators in Morumbi stadium or who saw the game on TV) still buried Dunga's team under a landslide of criticism.

No, for Brazil winning is not enough. It has to show that it is the circus company that the world (through Nike) elected it to be.

It doesn't serve as 'excuse' the fact that we cannot win all World Cups; or that a WC Qualifying is a long pre-tournament with 18 games and that we are still in round 4; or that the peak of the team is only to be attained within 3 years in South Africa and not within 6 months against Bolivia in La Paz or Paraguay in Asunción.

They - the 'magicians' - have to pull all the time...the rabbit from the hattop.

When that consistency can only be displayed by machines & no trait of it has ever been observed in the unstable - and precisely because of that - fascinating world of football.

Even if the homeland of that Jogo Bonito so 'artistically' idealized by Nike already has an exotic & commercially appealing six-lettered name.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2189/purcifulstoys1972783258mr5.pngB-R-A-Z-I-L

[wtf_SCOLARI!!]

NIke didn't invent the "Joga Bonito" stereotype...the Brazilians have been known to play "beautiful" football since the 60's.

[Grinners89]

In brasil...coaches are telling players (from what i know) that about 85-90% of the game is physical (eg pace, strength, power, endurance) and that about 10-15% of the game is dribbling skills...i agree completely with this. A player without any of those physical attributes will not make it in any league in any country in the world

[kingkong1]

In brasil...coaches are telling players (from what i know) that about 85-90% of the game is physical (eg pace, strength, power, endurance) and that about 10-15% of the game is dribbling skills...i agree completely with this. A player without any of those physical attributes will not make it in any league in any country in the worldBetter not to agree with that so much!...

'Strong' and 'physical' England's sad elimination yesterday from Euro 2008 by a much lighter and technical team is a flagrant proof of how wrong you are...

Besides, nothing like that is being 'said in Brazil' by any coach (at least programmatically)...

They wouldn't want to lose their jobs...

Of course physical fitness is essential but not the most important: Brazil always displayed enough of it - since Pelé times.

In the right measure.

[Grinners89]

Better not to agree with that so much!...

'Strong' and 'physical' England's sad elimination yesterday from Euro 2008 by a much lighter and technical team is a flagrant proof of how wrong you are...

Besides, nothing like that is being 'said in Brazil' by any coach (at least programmatically)...

They wouldn't want to lose their jobs...

Of course physical fitness is essential but not the most important: Brazil always displayed enough of it - since Pelé times.

In the right measure.

I never said strong and physical...i meant that in todays football...all over the world a player must be in great physical shape, have good endurance. I never said that they should play the dump and collect type of game...dont try and mix my words.

Yes every player needs to have technical skills, thats obvious, but you cant use those technical skills if you dont have strength over the ball...read my post.

If i have to explain it to you, power is the mix between speed and strength, such as acceleration of passing or shooting...dont try and kill my argument when you dont read my post

[kingkong1]

NIke didn't invent the "Joga Bonito" stereotype...the Brazilians have been known to play "beautiful" football since the 60's.No, since the 30's.

Besides, the word beautiful, in the case of Brazil, NEVER displayed those "quotation marks" of yours...

Playing beautiful (without ""..."") was always a consequence of being efficient, and that has been proved since the 1938 World Cup, when Leônidas da Silva - besides introducing to the European soccer world the never seen before 'bicycle' -

http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/3235/leonidas011dbedf7ge3.jpg
Leônidas 'bicycle' (of which he is considered the inventor): ability allied to strength

- was its main scorer & lead his country to a more than convincing 3rd place in that competition.

Beauty and efficiency side by side in the same player.

The 'Jogo Bonito' stereotype IS Nike's; football played 'beautiful & efficiently" - at a devastating scale - is a Brazilian prototype ;) ...

[Leinad]

Brasil is a victim of its own hype, pretty simple.

[Auriaprottu]

Brazil is generally cited as the nation that symbolizes what has been labeled (mainly under the influence of Nike and its commercials) as 'Jogo Bonito', or 'Joga Bonito'.

In those clips generally black players (Brz in their majority) are shown more as super-heroes & ballet dancers than the flesh-and-bones humans that they really are, all in order to - in a subliminar & indirect way - illustrate the extreme good Nike's soccer shoes do those mortal feet.

So the image that people end up having of them is that they are some sort of magicians, and - since they are magicians - everytime they step on a soccer field they have the obligation to act as Houdinis and perform all sort of tricks & skillful maneuvers.

If that doesn't happen all the time, the same fans who idolize them start accusing them of being 'mercenaries', fake geniuses, and, worse, as 'finnished to football'...

In this Forum, for example, there are many members who openly reveal their sadness for Brazil not be playing beautiful 'anymore'...

When in Brazil players never had the preoccupation of being, in first place, 'artists': skillful & attractive playing always came as a consequence and never as an end in itself...

Their main preoccupation has ever been - in 1st place - with winning: and in that aspect, let's be honest, they are still n°1 in the planet...

But people want more.

The recent example of unnacceptable 'ugly' football presented by Brazil in the 2006 World Cup & the 'injust' victory yesterday against Uruguay in the SA Qualifiers is emblematic: in this last case, Brazil won & the whole world (even many Brazilian spectators in Morumbi stadium or who saw the game on TV) still buried Dunga's team under a landslide of criticism.

No, for Brazil winning is not enough. It has to show that it is the circus company that the world (through Nike) elected it to be.

It doesn't serve as 'excuse' the fact that we cannot win all World Cups; or that a WC Qualifying is a long pre-tournament with 18 games and that we are still in round 4; or that the peak of the team is only to be attained within 3 years in South Africa and not within 6 months against Bolivia in La Paz or Paraguay in Asunción.

They - the 'magicians' - have to pull all the time...the rabbit from the hattop.

When that consistency can only be displayed by machines & no trait of it has ever been observed in the unstable - and precisely because of that - fascinating world of football.

Even if the homeland of that Jogo Bonito so 'artistically' idealized by Nike already has an exotic & commercially appealing six-lettered name.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2189/purcifulstoys1972783258mr5.pngB-R-A-Z-I-L


I love watching Brasil as much as anyone, but

1) I think you're paranoid about Nike (not that Nike wouldn't do what you're claiming if they could, but they cannot), and even if you're right,
2) they decided to cast their lot with Nike.

[John K]

Brazil haven't played like that since about 1982.

[kingkong1]

I love watching Brasil as much as anyone, but

1) I think you're paranoid about Nike (not that Nike wouldn't do what you're claiming if they could, but they cannot), and even if you're right,
2) (...) they decided to cast their lot with Nike

Good to know you're a Brazil fan (& definitely don't have any bias against us)! :) ...

There are a few points though in that post I'd like you to clarify:

I think you're paranoid about Nike

Perhaps you're right, but why & in what way?...

(...) not that Nike wouldn't do what you're claiming if they could, but they cannot (...)

What precisely am I 'claiming Nike would do it if it could, but can't'? :confused: ...

(...) and even if you're right (...)

What precisely am I 'right about', even 'if I were'?...

(...) they decided to cast their lot with Nike

Who precisely 'decided', and what or which 'lot' you refer to?...

From what you wrote, the only thing that was clear to me (or to anyone who reads it) is that I am 'paranoy' about 'something'...

Since I frankly don't suppose your intention was to offend me, I'd beg you to answer my humble question:

Would you mind being a little more...specific? :o

[kingkong1]

Brasil is a victim of its own hype, pretty simple I love watching Brasil as much as anyone It looks like the hype we are 'victim of' doesn't come ONLY from us :D ...

[kingkong1]

Brazil haven't played like that since about 1982 That's the typical bombastic phrase: what about Brazil in the 1990 and 2006 WCs?...

Besides, it was exactly for 'playing like that' that the world 'accused' us of winning the 1994 WC :cool: ...

[GRBomber]

Brazil haven't played like that since about 1982.

We beat Argentina in the last Confederations Cup and in the last Copa America playing very well.

It's just two games, but it was beautiful.

If you're talking about playing some eye-pleasing football consistently, then maybe I'll agree.

[kingkong1]

Brazil haven't played like that since about 1982.

This thread is not about Brazil under Dunga (which if played lousy against Uruguay, did it superbly against Argentina in Confed's Cup and Copa América - for the disappointment of many).

Or any other coach.

As a matter of fact, the 'Brazilian way of playing' never depended much on coaches as it happens in Europe, where tactical aspects are more stressed.

While Brazil dismounted Sweden in the 1958 WC final, it's said Feola peacefully...dozed in the bench.

Its 'way of playing' is already embedded in the personal style of each of its players and not necessarilly of the coach and that's why is so supple and adaptable to any type of adversary or situation.

Brazil dances according to the music: not following the exact melodic pattern presented to it but filling the spaces in between.

Reading between the lines.

If it's tango, it'll dance a quasi-tango, if waltz, a quasi-waltz, if a mazurka, a quasi-mazurca.

A specialty is playing dead.

If given a chance though will dance real samba and will install a carnival.

But the adversaries, besides having been getting better technically, also grew stronger physically nowadays.

That's why we have sometimes to adopt the jiu-jitsu anaconda tactics of immobilizing the adversary, and, even with him on top of you clobbering your head with punches, there'll be a moment in which he'll open the guard and - totally exhaust - will see the final and unexpected ring close around his throat.

That's precisely what happened for instance in 1958 against Wales, in 1962 against Spain, in 1970 against England, in 1989 against Argentina, in 1994 against hosts US & Holland, in 2002 against England & Germany, in 2007 against Uruguay (all those games with different degrees of brilliancy, of course).

So if you think Brazil at a determinate historical moment is done, better start worrying...

The rest is Nike talk :cool: ...

[celito]

Kingkong1,

The problem we as fans (and the analysts) have with the current team is that it doesn't win games convincingly. The people who cite not playing beatifull as the reason for their discontent with the team are not very inteligent fans. I agree there should no be pressure to put on a show, but there should be pressure to play well. Playing well (offensively speaking) means effective passing and creating goal scoring opportunities.

It looks like today, the team is mostly relying on imporvisation. We can't see a tactical standard in the games. It seems like we are playing a big pick up game. And it's very frustrating to watch.

[Antonio81]

Brazil is generally cited as the nation that symbolizes what has been labeled (mainly under the influence of Nike and its commercials) as 'Jogo Bonito', or 'Joga Bonito'.

In those clips generally black players (Brz in their majority) are shown more as super-heroes & ballet dancers than the flesh-and-bones humans that they really are, all in order to - in a subliminar & indirect way - illustrate the extreme good Nike's soccer shoes do those mortal feet.

So the image that people end up having of them is that they are some sort of magicians, and - since they are magicians - everytime they step on a soccer field they have the obligation to act as Houdinis and perform all sort of tricks & skillful maneuvers.

If that doesn't happen all the time, the same fans who idolize them start accusing them of being 'mercenaries', fake geniuses, and, worse, as 'finnished to football'...

In this Forum, for example, there are many members who openly reveal their sadness for Brazil not be playing beautiful 'anymore'...

When in Brazil players never had the preoccupation of being, in first place, 'artists': skillful & attractive playing always came as a consequence and never as an end in itself...

Their main preoccupation has ever been - in 1st place - with winning: and in that aspect, let's be honest, they are still n°1 in the planet...

But people want more.

The recent example of unnacceptable 'ugly' football presented by Brazil in the 2006 World Cup & the 'injust' victory yesterday against Uruguay in the SA Qualifiers is emblematic: in this last case, Brazil won & the whole world (even many Brazilian spectators in Morumbi stadium or who saw the game on TV) still buried Dunga's team under a landslide of criticism.

No, for Brazil winning is not enough. It has to show that it is the circus company that the world (through Nike) elected it to be.

It doesn't serve as 'excuse' the fact that we cannot win all World Cups; or that a WC Qualifying is a long pre-tournament with 18 games and that we are still in round 4; or that the peak of the team is only to be attained within 3 years in South Africa and not within 6 months against Bolivia in La Paz or Paraguay in Asunción.

They - the 'magicians' - have to pull all the time...the rabbit from the hattop.

When that consistency can only be displayed by machines & no trait of it has ever been observed in the unstable - and precisely because of that - fascinating world of football.

Even if the homeland of that Jogo Bonito so 'artistically' idealized by Nike already has an exotic & commercially appealing six-lettered name.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/2189/purcifulstoys1972783258mr5.pngB-R-A-Z-I-LA quick question, why then, is Tele Santana's 1982 WC Squad referred to as the greatest ever after the 1970 one(even though they couldn't make it past the Quarterfinals,) why did the Brazilian media call for Coutinho's head when Brazil played boring football at the start of the 1978 World Cup, and why did many Brazilians lament the way Parreira won USA '94?

[celito]

A quick question, why then, is Tele Santana's 1982 WC Squad referred to as the greatest ever after the 1970 one(even though they couldn't make it past the Quarterfinals,) why did the Brazilian media call for Coutinho's head when Brazil played boring football at the start of the 1978 World Cup, and why did many Brazilians lament the way Parreira won USA '94?

Because people are being romantic and not realistic. 82 will always live in the hearts of Brazilians because of their offensive style and the beautifull goals they scored. But if you think about it, that team had terrible defense and they paid the price for it. You just can't play that style of game today and win tournments.

The first problem with the 94 team was that they had trouble qualifying for the WC. We lost our first WCQ game ever to Bolivia and we had to wait until the last game to qualify. The team had no creative players in the midfield. Rai was our only hope and he never played well in the Selecao. Plus, it carried the stigma of the '90 team that was a complete failure (with Dunga in the midfield as well).

[Antonio81]

I completely agree(particularly with the 1982 team, which lacked both true defenders and fowards) but what I was getting at was this thing that Brazilians are only concerned about winning, I've always been under the impression that the beautiful game was the most important thing to them, and that a win playing dull futebol was really a loss.

[kingkong1]

Kingkong1,

The problem we as fans (and the analysts) have with the current team is that it doesn't win games convincingly. The people who cite not playing beatifull as the reason for their discontent with the team are not very inteligent fans. I agree there should no be pressure to put on a show, but there should be pressure to play well. Playing well (offensively speaking) means effective passing and creating goal scoring opportunities.

It looks like today, the team is mostly relying on imporvisation. We can't see a tactical standard in the games. It seems like we are playing a big pick up game. And it's very frustrating to watch.Agreed in 'gênero, número e gráu'!...

Pressure from fans and critics for Brazil to play well will always exist though...

And that happens in any country! What to say then in Brazil, who commited in the past (since 1958) the capital sin of having displayed the best football ever seen in the history of the game...

Remember that Brazil left Rio towards Mexico in 1970 under terrible whistling of its 'fanatic' fans in most of its last preparation games in Maracanã Stadium!...

All that with that team (the best NT of all times!)....

And the reason was precisely the same: 'it didn't win games convincingly'...

How come only 1 x 0 against Paraguay in the last & decisive game of the 1970 Qualifyings?...

And (detail)...AT HOME & WITH WORLD RECORD PUBLIC!!!

I'm not saying that Dunga is as good a coach as João Saldanha or Zagalo (very far from that!), or that the present team is at the level of what a Brz NT deserves...

I just said: we don't traditionally rely so much on coaches to win!...

'Tactical standards' in Brazil are not so much imposed from top to bottom, but they in general spontaneously blossom from situations the players individually face...

And that only Brazilian players are historically capable to do: the others play with the Pro Soccer Tactics Handbook in the pocket.

Sure, we are a fantastic people!...

But, let's concede: be them presidents, TV narrators, street neighbors, or football coaches - we love to criticize!...

It's a right we have, never mind!...

('Deputado baiano, eu quero falar...' - letra de marchinha de Carnaval dos anos 50)

[kingkong1]

I completely agree(particularly with the 1982 team, which lacked both true defenders and fowards) but what I was getting at was this thing that Brazilians are only concerned about winning, I've always been under the impression that the beautiful game was the most important thing to them, and that a win playing dull futebol was really a loss.Lacked true defenders - right.

Lacked true forwards - wrong: Zico, a MF who was also a fantastic striker (career 700 goals) and Éder (wing) would be more than enough.

Zico, from MF to the box:

br.youtube.com/watch?v=hid80MyFJcs&feature=related

Eder kick, Zico completes, Fillol just watches:

br.youtube.com/watch?v=o5xH-wiyxPI

Besides Sócrates and Falcão also were quite offensive mids.

Sócrates vs Russia, 82:

br.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga5EEdyCFfs

Falcão, also from MF to the box (Brz Chmpshp):

http://br.youtube.com/watch?v=BHTE0uK8JIw

'Jogo bonito' or the ridiculous 'Joga Bonito' are expressions that never existed in Brazilian vocabulary (the 2nd one is even grammatically wrong),

The jogo is already bonito in its own essence.

In Brazil it's a noun that doesn't need any adjective.

It's beautiful even when it just wins: what a sweet and marvelous victory in 2002 was that against Turkey with a decisive and dull 'bico' by Ronaldo!...

'Jogo Bonita'! :p...

That awkward expression had to 'derive' from a Nike executive! :rolleyes: ...

Brazil did play dull footbal in the 1984 agst US, Sweden & Italy, but for sure not against Russia (8ths), Cameroon (4rs) and Holland (semis): and the players (including Dunga) were received enthusiastically in all Brz airports...

In short...played dull when it had to play dull...

And leave Joga Bonita to Nika :eek: ...