The English sporting dilemma

[ballard45]

Having seen the disappointing loss by England to Croatia this morning, it just confirms for me the problems that face not only the English Football team but also other national teams.

I am convinced that the problems in England stem from the ever increasing importation of foreigners into our domestic competition. Now I know that a lot of people will say that the imports have led to a better quality domestic competition but I believe that in fact it has had an enormous detrimental effect on English sport. I think that the FA need to bite the bullet and place a restriction on the number of imports allowed to play by each club. This will no doubt cause many to say that we will suffer but conversely I think it will allow for greater development of local talent and in the end can only help our national team.

By way of example, our team today included, Beckham, Crouch and Defoe. Now I am not belittling their ability but these players either don't play in England or at this stage have had very little time playing in their respective league teams because of imports!

Look at Spain. They are in exactly the same position. They have massive amounts of imports but their national team win nothing. However look at Italy and Germany. They have imports but far less and look at the succes of their national teams compared to England and Spain.

I believe that the English FA should limit every team to 2 imports. Clubs should only be able to use players from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

There may be some pain at the start but I am sure that it will only be for the good of English football. It is ridiculous when you look at Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea etc and see these clubs playing with none or maybe 1 or 2 domestic players.

The same problem is seen in cricket...the domestic competition has loads of imports and at the end of the day, England suffers on the international stage.

I know that many will say the game will suffer but it won't. Fans will still want to see their team and hey the West Ham model of a Youth Academy has been one of the most successful in English footbal so why can't it work? We just need some people with balls to make the tough decisions and make them for the good of British football.

[blainehammer]

Well said Ballard.

I know that there would be court cases galore if there was some sort of restriction however that only encompasses European players.
Why don't we tell all the Africans, South Americans and Asians to sling their hooks? That seems like a good place to start.
Politicians get away with "proportional representation" then why can't football?

[michammer]

Fully agree. I looked at the Arsenal team a couple of weeks ago, and their was not a single Englishman in the starting XI. Sometimes, it seems that there are only half-a-dozen Englishmen on the field - including the officials!!

[west_ham]

I don't think we can pin England's problems on this one single cause, however I do agree with your suggestions Ballard. It would certainly be a positive move in the right direction.

I think the root cause to England not playing well is down to the fact that there has been no passion or integrity in the England setup for years.

There are obviously men in suits at the top controlling the whole thing and all they want for a manager is a yes man. Look back to when Cloughy was not given the job. That's how long this has been going on for.

Consequently the players are lost. They don't know how to play together, they have no real passion to win as a team and a lack of a strong willed manager makes them just play for themselves.

The good old fashioned Great British PMA has disintegrated over the years, in the England setup anyway. Just watch some footage from '66 and observe the team spirit in the players attitude and body language. It doesn't exists amongst England players anymore.

A restriction on foreign players in the domestic game won't automatically restore this but it's a good start. My only concern with it is that all our players will be snapped up by the big rich clubs.

I don't think it could happen anyway because the rich clubs would kick up such a stink because they would stand to lose £millions. The G14 influence would prevent it.

[lesliemoss]

It's usual practice to try to analyze what went wrong with the England team; but don't forget that missing from the team were; Terry, Ferdinand, Rooney, Owen and Ashley Cole.That's 5 starters, and if they'd been available, I don't think for one minute that Croatia would have scored 3 goals, and I think Crouch's efforts would have been more rewarding.
I feel sorry for Carson, and that was a Mclaren mistake to put him in such an important game. We all know who should have been in goal, and his initials are RG!
The other obvious error, of course, was starting Wright-Phillips instead of Beckham. Give a new manager a fully fit side, and England will come back.

[Gmak]

The failure of the team cnt be blamed on the foreigners. If you're good enough for say arsneal then u can and will play for arsenal. Managers look for quality not nationality. If say west ham sign a player who's gifted and english, Great. If he's Great and foreign, who cares? English men have started for other teams, they get football time! It's up to them to improve themselves. Bently gets good football at rovers. If he lost out his place at asburton groove to Hleb, can u complain. hleb is better and delivers, Bentely gets time at rovers! everybody wins!

[ballard45]

I don't think we can pin England's problems on this one single cause, however I do agree with your suggestions Ballard. It would certainly be a positive move in the right direction.

I think the root cause to England not playing well is down to the fact that there has been no passion or integrity in the England setup for years.

There are obviously men in suits at the top controlling the whole thing and all they want for a manager is a yes man. Look back to when Cloughy was not given the job. That's how long this has been going on for.

Consequently the players are lost. They don't know how to play together, they have no real passion to win as a team and a lack of a strong willed manager makes them just play for themselves.

The good old fashioned Great British PMA has disintegrated over the years, in the England setup anyway. Just watch some footage from '66 and observe the team spirit in the players attitude and body language. It doesn't exists amongst England players anymore.

A restriction on foreign players in the domestic game won't automatically restore this but it's a good start. My only concern with it is that all our players will be snapped up by the big rich clubs.

I don't think it could happen anyway because the rich clubs would kick up such a stink because they would stand to lose £millions. The G14 influence would prevent it.


I agree that the cause of England's problems is not just this but I think that we need to change the culture in English Football. sacking the Manager is just a knee jerk reaction which is what seems to be the norm nowadays. (I'm not a McClaren fan either and I don't think he was the right choice). All I am saying is that until we have the people with the gumption to force the culture change then I think we can expect more of the same. I noted Lesliemoss comments about players missing but I don't think this is the issue. The players representing England are all quality players but our system is stifling our players and we need to fix it.

Sadly I can't see it happening.

[claret50]

From thegoalposts.com


Are there any excuses? Some mild ones maybe.

McClaren had almost a third-choice back four out there, plus a second-choice front two. But I knew he'd go 4-5-1!

I knew Lamps'd be back in. I knew the players, Englishmen with all the flexibility of polystyrene, would snap under the pressure of a new formation!

You know what? I withdraw comments about too many foreigners in the Premier League. There's just too few Englishmen in Serie A and La Liga.

Becks, unfit, ponderous and playing Mickey Mouse footie in the most artificial place on God's green earth, was the only bloke to deliver a geunine pass in the whole game (Croats aside).

I'm not going to batter Carson. Robinson should have been replaced games ago, then the lad wouldn't have had to be given a Bonetti of a job to do on Wednesday night. As for Peter Crouch, well by gum, lad, you're the first name in the next squad.

At half-time I felt, well, relieved. The wife's head is on me shoulder and she's saying: "So, can we go somewhere warm for our summer holidays now, then?"

And I'm saying: "I still want to watch all the games, pet." And she's saying: "I know, but you won't mind those funny foreign commentators if there's no Brits involved."

And suddenly I'm free! Free from the tyranny of supporting a bunch of pampered, overpaid plonkers who couldn't successfully make a pass at a speed-dating session for 40-year old virgins.

But then comes the comeback, dammit. And we're back believing again, until the lad Petric, closely marked by the Ghosts of England Past but left alone by the clueless pillocks on the pitch, finishes it once and for all...

We're off to Crete, apparently.


'FA' just about sums up what these blokes know about footballDerek 'Robbo' Robson
But before I scare the infant population of Teesside by throwing toys out of every pram in Middlesbrough, let's just take a deep breath and count to ten... four, four, two.

Cos you know what, I don't really want to talk about the game. I want to talk about the academy of asses who arranged an extraordinary meeting on Thursday morning.

Extraordinary is right. It's extraordinary how these blokes think they should still be in a position to sack someone else. If McClaren can be fired (from a cannon, preferably) for putting the wrong personnel in the wrong places, then how come Barwick's still got his ample backside wedged into a swivel-chair?

'FA' just about sums up what these blokes know about football. The 2006 World Cup effort was dismal, so you select a bloke who was intimately associated with it to carry on.

He's a pleasant, feeble coach and Barwick says he was always his number one. Right, Bri, that'll explain why you were shuffling around Portugal after Big Phil like some spotty teenager after a holiday romance.

But it's worse than that, isn't it? Wembley stadium was a pretty good allegory for the FA. A sodden mudbath of self-interest, ploughed up by money-spinning and downright bloody pointless flirtations with American football.

To still see gridiron markings on the surface of our national game just indicates how important football is next to the cash-wallpapered offices of the FA. The friendly versus Austria, too. Why? Ridiculous.

The arrogance of these people beggars belief. McClaren has said he takes responsibility for the failure (yeah and 2.5 million quid! Do we have to make failure such an attractive option?)

And so the search begins for a successor and we've got the same people looking. The people who missed O'Neill and hacked off Scolari, and who haplessly played ringmaster to a disastrous media circus.

A new manager'll be harder to find than Steve Harmison's boots. Mourinho's your man and maybe he's perverse enough to take it on.

But enough of the (g)olden generation. There are young players who, given time, a good coach, and the permission of an absurdly deluded press pack, might be the future of the national team.

Agbonlahor, Walcott, Young, Richards, Foster... If we don't get to the finals in South Africa, so bloody what? Give 'em a chance.

But please, please, please can the current FA FO?

[ballard45]

From thegoalposts.com



You know what? I withdraw comments about too many foreigners in the Premier League. There's just too few Englishmen in Serie A and La Liga.



This is precisely the problem summed up in reverse. We need to take advantage of other leagues rather then them use us!!

[west_ham]

The failure of the team cnt be blamed on the foreigners. If you're good enough for say arsneal then u can and will play for arsenal. Managers look for quality not nationality. If say west ham sign a player who's gifted and english, Great. If he's Great and foreign, who cares? English men have started for other teams, they get football time! It's up to them to improve themselves. Bently gets good football at rovers. If he lost out his place at asburton groove to Hleb, can u complain. hleb is better and delivers, Bentely gets time at rovers! everybody wins!
I think there is more to it than that. When it comes to nationality some managers are of a certain persuasion. Wenger is your classic example. If you are not African or French then your chances of playing for Arsenal are alot slimmer. They have even admitted that French is the first language spoken in training.

Also the price of foreign players needs to be considered as they are usually cheaper. Again I am sure Wenger has capitalised on this as much as anyone. I am not entirely critical of foreign players in the domestic game I just think it needs to be kept in proportion.

When we talk about a culture change within the England camp, which I agree is needed, I can't help but think of the fickle attitude I witness particularly around England games.

I watched most of the game the other night and the commentators really make me laugh, but on the other hand perhaps illustrate the tragic side of the English game.

During the first half Motson (I think) and Mark Lawrenson (...yes I know he's a pratt) were slagging off the team none stop whilst at the same time trying to make excuses for them. In the second half once it was 2-2 they were singing England's praises no end. Then it was 3-2 and they were back to slagging them off again.

We all know the idiosyncratic nature of England's football. It sometimes reminds me of how West Ham play!! But the attitudes are so fickle that, as a neutral supporter, it's sometimes cringe worthy to watch. But I accept that most of this could be down to Lawrenson's bad puns!! :rolleyes:

The serious side of this, though, is that this is perhaps part of the bad culture. It comes from setting unrealistic expectations of the team and an unfounded assumption that they will steamroll past anyone in their path.

On the whole though everyone is agreed that a serious overhaul from top to bottom is required if England are going to start playing to their full potential. I think that this time round their already seems to be more people rallying for change and questioning what the FA are going to do about England's deep rooted problems. Replacing the manager yet again is not enough.

http://www.skysports.com/video/0,20285,12606_2899598,00.html

I saw this interview this morning and thought that Johnson is spot on here. But he voices the opinions of the masses here and, needless to say, many people wrote into SSN to voice their agreement.

The frustrating part of the situation, as I see it, is that the fans can see what's required and they pay the wages of the footballing professionals (on and off the pitch) to implement it. But they don't. Instead they make promises which are never kept and only seem to aim to keep the England team's head above water so that everyone can collect their cheque at the end of the week.

I do get a slight sense that the substance may hit the device soon as there are many professionals voicing up about the state of the FA including David Davis and our very own Sir Trevor.

[Hammerette 1]

I don't have any problem with top quality foreign players being in the PL but there are far too many who in reality are no better than a home grown player and it's these types of players who need to be severly limited. As already mentioned, they are bought because they are cheap.

[Birminghammer]

When I think of the great players I think of humble origins. From Pele juggling melons in a Brazilian market to Tevez being dragged through the back streets of Buenos Aires, even our own Bobby Moore learning to play as a lad in the cobbled streets of the East End.

What was lacking in facilities was made up for in aspiration, desire and a passion for the game.

What was disappointing about England's exit compared to Scotland and Norn Iron was the manner of it. The Scots and Irish battled impossible odds, worked their socks off and achieved results that nobody expected them to get but themselves. Northern Ireland beating Spain, Scotland doing the double over France. The aspiration was there, the passion, even if they were outclassed on paper they held a good team spirit, played their own game and did it well.

As an indicator of what the fans want, Scotland received a standing ovation after the Italy match when they were scandalously knocked out. England were booed off the pitch by their own fans.

[Footstomper]

Why are we crap? I have some ideas

Most kids play football on a computer, not a pitch.
We have the fattest population in Europe.
Forget the foreigners in the premier league why are there so many in the lower leagues? Where are the opportunities for the young talent to come through?
Where are the English managers?
Owners buy success now. They cannot afford to develop teams.
No English development = No English success for the national team
I dont think its rocket science.


PS Forget the cap on Johnny Foreigner; it wont fly legally or morally

[west_ham]

Why are we crap? I have some ideas

Most kids play football on a computer, not a pitch.
We have the fattest population in Europe.
Forget the foreigners in the premier league why are there so many in the lower leagues? Where are the opportunities for the young talent to come through?
Where are the English managers?
Owners buy success now. They cannot afford to develop teams.
No English development = No English success for the national team
I dont think its rocket science.
What is the root cause of all these things though?

Quality of upbringing? Standard of living? Lack of work ethic?

All these things and maybe a few more lead to a lack of what used to be known as a British positive mentality and it used to be common place with alot of people in Britain.

It encouraged people to be go getters, achievers and survivors. Consequently medals were won, communities were built, hard times were endured and oppression was conquered.

The cushy lifestyle that many people have had all their lives nowadays has meant that they have never developed the qualities required to endure hard times and work and fight to achieve their goals.

Plus there are many distractions from hard work today that didn't exist 30+ years ago. (...and yes. One of them is posting your views on an online forum!! :D ).

But can anyone here see this country being willing to go back to basics with football and start telling kids that it takes hard work and non stop practice to become a professional footballer? Some parents may have a problem with this, whilst their kids work harder on their goal celebrations than their goal scoring.

So IMV it starts at a family level with a quality upbringing and correct nurturing in order to infuse a good work ethic into young kids before they even run onto the pitch.