Rec league - why do I bother? Am I being unreasonable?

[Father Ted]

Just finished my 4th year of coaching my kids. Coached two teams U-8 and U-10, no problem with the kids and they were absolutely great. My beef is with the league.
A few examples:

- getting the roster two days before the first game
- no instructions for first-time coaches whatsoever
- shirts for the kids were poor, not the right sizes, ripped in the wash
- no notification of schedule changes
- poor team photos (I and other parents complained, was told it was not the league's problem)
- no trophy for kids - just a crappy bag and water bottle and they were very disappointed(I ended up making Soccer goodie bags for them before the final game)
- fields not in good condition e.g. grass too long, cannot see lines on the field
- bad range of ages in some divisions e.g. my 6 year old was playing with much bigger 8 year olds etc

When I voiced my complaints, I was given an "it is what it is and if you dont like it, go join another town's league" kind of answer. I had complained in other years and was told to become a member of the Board but when I offered, noone (like everything else) got back to me. I know this is a volunteer run organization with a lot of kids playing (600 I think), I have helped out in the past distributing shirts etc but I feel it can be a whole lot better. I have no problem getting involved but I feel as if I've been tagged as a troublemaker.

What do you think?

[Crimson Ace]

- getting the roster two days before the first game
This is part of most rec leagues. Certainly not ideal and should be improved.

- no instructions for first-time coaches whatsoever
This is (by far) the worst one of the lot. This is something you should bring up with the club president or DOC. If you don't have success there, go to your state association director of education. Don't settle for this in any league or at any level.

- shirts for the kids were poor
Again, typical with a lot of rec leagues. Money is tough. You and some other parents should organize a board specifically meant to drum up sponsorships. Figure out (down to the penny), what it would cost to outfit a team for the season. Any sponsor that outfits a team gets their name on the jersey and a trophy/team photo to go in their office. Fun stuff if it's handled correctly.

- no notification of schedule changes
Another sign of a poorly run league. Inquire about getting the league "connected" on a web page. Most league pages now have a feature that will contact teams and/or team leaders by phone or email when changes are made. There are also VM services that allow league officials and/or team leaders to leave messages on a non-repliable machine. That way, parents can call in right before they're about to walk out the door and get any changes you've made... without you having to call everyone individually. It's a life changer!

- poor team photos
This is just a matter of shopping around on your own. Get some quotes from area photographers and bring them to your board. Who knows, you might be able to find better photos for a cheaper price.

- no trophy for kids
Tough one here, but it's all about the dollar. See if you can work this into the above mentioned sponsorships.

- fields not in good condition
Not much to do about this one. If your park is City run, then you're at their mercy and you're screwed. If it's a private park, simply organize some parents on an alternating schedule to come cut/line. It's a lot of elbow grease, but it's manageable. You might also find a lawn service willing to either donate their time or at least help you at a reduced rate a few times during the season.

- bad range of ages in some divisions
This is awful, but I can understand (to a point). If your league is small, some kids simply have to play out of their age bracket simply to fill a team. If that's not the case, go to your club president or DOC. If you don't get the answer you're looking for, get a hold of your state association director of player development and let them fix it.

Just my two cents in a nutshell. Keep in mind I've been out of the rec game for quite some time, but the process hasn't changed much. Hope that helps... best of luck.

[Crimson Ace]

When I voiced my complaints, I was given an "it is what it is and if you dont like it, go join another town's league" kind of answer. I had complained in other years and was told to become a member of the Board but when I offered, noone (like everything else) got back to me. I know this is a volunteer run organization with a lot of kids playing (600 I think), I have helped out in the past distributing shirts etc but I feel it can be a whole lot better. I have no problem getting involved but I feel as if I've been tagged as a troublemaker.
Just a thought after re-reading this last part... what about going to a local competitive club and asking for some help? Most competitive clubs are run pretty tight, complete with bylaws, governing bodies, treasurers, etc. Go to a DOC and ask for some consultation... not only for you as to how to voice change, but also for the league. See if that DOC will come speak at a "fireside chat" type meeting for a few hours. Come in with an agenda for change/growth... answer a few questions and see where that takes you. My problem with you going alone is the perception of credibility. Soccer leagues have been around a long time and there's no need to re-invent the wheel. By gaining the support of a local (and experienced) DOC, you're already a step ahead. And besides, that DOC should bend over backwards to help you because your "little rec kids" might one day turn up in his competitive club. It's a win-win.

Remember... this is free advice and you get what you pay for! Good luck.

[cleansheetbsc]

What do you think?

Make noise. The more you do, the more likely you are to make change. Show up at board meetings. Sound like a broken record. I run a rec league of 1200 in fall, 800 in spring. It is important that the kids have a positive experience.

For the record, we:

1. are not good at getting our info out timely. Would love to do it 4 weeks in advance, but usually are around 2 weeks before the season we get the rosters out.

2. We offer training courses for new coaches, and will pay for a rec coach to get an 'f' license. A bad coach is about the most harmful thing you can do in rec soccer. No room for Buttermaker's.

3. Shirts - There are a zillion shirt people in your area. Keep looking around. You will find one, unless the current one is a board member or friend of a board member. As a league administrator, It is hard to know which team the fat kid or giant kid will end up on.

4. I am constantly emailing our coaches with updates regarding schedules and other reminders. Your league should do the same.

5. Each year we give out a trophy in the fall and a chachki in the spring. Nice water bottles and backpacks are cool, but I learned a couple of seasons ago to order simple .99 cent medals for the 4, 5, and 6 year-olds as well since often this is their first "trophy."
I highly recommend size 1 soccer balls.

6. Fields - if you pay someone to rent the fields or to mow, you have every right to bitch.

7. We will adjust play formats to allow for proper groups of kids to be together.

[Father Ted]

Thanks for the replies, they made me feel that I am not going insane. Re the field, yes they are town owned and I suppose the league is at the will of the town maintenance crew.

I have offered my opinions before about shirt sponsorships, age groupings, offered web site help, coaching ideas, correct age brackets. I have offered to become more involved but I feel it is pretty much a closed club as regards the board of this league. I was pretty shocked though when I was told this weekend if I didnt like it, that maybe I should look to surrounding town's leagues.

[LJSoccer]

Dude, it sounds like the people that run your association got their lunch money stolen when they were a kid. That's a tough break.

I hate to bring this up because it's probable not the case where you live but here goes. I coach and work with the soccer club in my town and have worked with the kids for years, so I have run into a lot of volunteers. One of them told me about a situation that sounds a lot like what you are going through, except it was a different sport. This thing was a disorganized mess. She was told, like you, if she didn't like it she could take her kid and try some place else or another sport. Eventually, because of rising fees and poor service, the books got opened. The fields weren't getting mowed for a reason. The company that was supposed to take care of it was just a bank account for one of the board members. 3-4 of the members of the board, the same people that basically told her to jump in the lake, were on the take. The same thing happened in an area little league as well. Same disorganized situation, same lack of accountability, with the same thieving results. Being disorganized and uncaring is not a crime, but it sure does make it easier to be a criminal if someone is so inclined. When you offered to be on the board in a position of awareness and openness and didn't receive a call back, that to me, throws up a red flag.

WE have open positions on our board right now. If I want the responsibility they would love to give it to me. Volunteers that will actually work, are hard to come by. We have plenty of thoroughbreds and not enough mules, if you know what I mean. Sadly with the 2 teams that I am coaching, I am doing all I can right now. Just be careful and keep your eyes and your ears open. Like I said in the beginning, I'm probable wrong about your situation, they are probable folks who just want a position and aren't willing to do the work. My wifes a school teacher and she says the PTA can get to be the same way, a bunch of queen bees and not enough workers. Fight the good fight.

P.S. If they are criminals send'em down here to Texas, we still have the death penalty and ain't afraid to use it. Just Kidding.

[Val1]

I have offered my opinions before about shirt sponsorships, age groupings, offered web site help, coaching ideas, correct age brackets. I have offered to become more involved but I feel it is pretty much a closed club as regards the board of this league. I was pretty shocked though when I was told this weekend if I didnt like it, that maybe I should look to surrounding town's leagues.
Well, if your board is that incompetent and want to remain that way, then continue being the oasis in the wasteland. The kids you coach need you more than ever. My club has had some of the problems you've had, just because we're small and parents treat rec soccer like it's their God-given right to have Johnnie and Susie play. So we are always flooded with late registrations (baseball and lacrosse cut off registrations so early they create a sense of scarcity and people clamber to get in on the first day of registration), which means we are late getting coaches, schedules, etc. We had to fire the guy who did photos for us last year (and he'd done them for 5 years) because of screwups and non-responsiveness after the sale, and our fields are pretty poor, esp in comparison to the baseball and lacrosse fields. We're not a closed shop, but I'm the only fresh blood on the board in 3 years, and some of our volunteers are moving onto other things. We can't find new members, and I've been looking...

As for jerseys, I highly recommend Score for decent, cheapo jerseys. Not the best by a long shot, but they certainly last for a full season, there's tons of colors, a decent selection of styles, and their prices are good.

As to where to go, only you can decide when enough is enough and you start looking elsewhere. But I suppose the same is true for church affiliation, social or service club membership, etc.

As far as coaching certifications, I'm not really sure they are necessary. Good coaching is really more about youth work than it is about soccer. I looked closely at the best coaches in our rec leagues this season, and of the top 15 (we had 43 or 44 coaches) only 3 had any licenses at all, and only 10 of them were soccer players. The very best we had to offer were caring parents who wanted their kids to have positive, rewarding experiences (not that those with licenses don't, of course). I'm not aware of any lacrosse or baseball or basketball coaching licenses like we have in the US and the UK.

I hope, from my very non-involved perspective, that you stay where you are. Coaching two teams, that takes some serious effort and dedication. Thanks for doing that.

[Crimson Ace]

As far as coaching certifications, I'm not really sure they are necessary. Good coaching is really more about youth work than it is about soccer. I looked closely at the best coaches in our rec leagues this season, and of the top 15 (we had 43 or 44 coaches) only 3 had any licenses at all, and only 10 of them were soccer players. The very best we had to offer were caring parents who wanted their kids to have positive, rewarding experiences (not that those with licenses don't, of course).Let me be perfectly clear... I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this... but I'm sure it's going to come out that way. Based on your above comments, am I safe to assume you don't have a coaching license? I ask because the youth modules are more about how to nurture the needs of children than they are about player development. This is exactly why I believe every youth soccer coach in the US should be required to be licensed. I actually encourage the parents of my players to go through the youth courses just to get a better understanding of what we're attempting to accomplish. With that said, find a course and have some fun.

I'm not aware of any lacrosse or baseball or basketball coaching licenses like we have in the US and the UK.This is what separates soccer from all the "others." It's worth taking pride in the coaching education system currently in place for soccer coaches of all levels and abilities.

[Val1]

Let me be perfectly clear... I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this... but I'm sure it's going to come out that way. Based on your above comments, am I safe to assume you don't have a coaching license? I ask because the youth modules are more about how to nurture the needs of children than they are about player development. This is exactly why I believe every youth soccer coach in the US should be required to be licensed. I actually encourage the parents of my players to go through the youth courses just to get a better understanding of what we're attempting to accomplish. With that said, find a course and have some fun.
Actually, I have the USSF D, the NSCAA Advanced Regional Diploma, the NSCAA State Goalkeeping Certificate, and I have taken the FA Level 2 Badge (though I wasn't in England long enough to take the practicals.)

I am aware that the E and F courses are more about child development, and that's probably a good thing.

Having taken the courses, I remain skeptical of their usefulness. I think this whole licensure track is actually part of the problem of youth soccer. The more gangs of adults go to school and overanalyze and get credentialed, the less likely it is that kids are going to be able to play free from adult-directed needs to win and perform.

The courses have helped, I am a better coach, but I'm also better because I deal more effectively with parents, I have more experience, and I moderate a coaching forum where we talk about this stuff all day. The license was just a small part of this progression.

[Crimson Ace]

The license was just a small part of this progression.
Awesome. Like I said... just askin'.

You mentioned that the courses were a small part of how you've progressed as a coach. But you're also much more involved than most - I am too. I've been emersed in this sport most of my life. But what about the lowest common denominator? I just think that if youth coaches were required to take an E/F course, the kids would benefit. Who knows, by being exposed to those courses, maybe a few of those parents starts to become as crazy as us about this sport... take more courses... buy more books/videos... attend more seminars, etc.!

[newsocdad]

I would suggest you start by checking out the league organization documents. When entrenched folks are challenged you may well find that they start arguing procedure. You should know what you are getting into. If the league has been around for awhile, you may well find that the league rules have not been followed, and that can give you an in to require "change" in the sense of requiring folks to comply with the league rules. You would be surprised how often folks have no idea what the organization's rules are.

If the league is formally organized as an entity you should be able to get a copy of its Articles of Incorporation or Organization from your state. Those are often available for free on line through your state's website. More importantly though you will need a copy of the league bylaws. Those should provide details on how board members are elected, and what positions are required to be filled. Who is entitled to vote? How often must a vote be taken? How do you call for a vote? All of those things may be spelled out in the bylaws, and if not, typically then your state's laws would apply to fill in gaps. Hopefully it is not the case, but if money is not being handled appropriately, you should anticipate a fight for information. It would be helpful if you had someone currently in the organization on your side who could give you information without making a big deal out of it.

Some of the issues you are addressing are fairly basic things. Our league does not do trophies, instead those are done team by team. Field maintenance is always a problem, but we solved the field lining problem by supplementing lining. Our fields were done 3 times a season by the schools, and we arranged to do lining a few more times, if needed, by soliciting volunteers and buying a couple of line painting machines and paint. Although our league does photos I confess the last couple of years we have done the basic team photo that is included with the fee, and then had parents take team photos. The post-muddy practice non-posed shots are always the best.

[loghyr]

- fields not in good condition e.g. grass too long, cannot see lines on the field


Paint/chalk costs money. Next to Ref fees, these are probably the single highest cost during the season.

Go out to your field the night before and mow. If you use the same set of fields, form a mowing collective to distribute this across everyone who uses the fields.

As for the shirts, it sounds like your club has a deal with someone to provide them. Check to see if your team has to take those uniforms or if you can take that part of your fee back and buy your own.

For about $5 a kid, you can make your own t-shirts. You can either use spray paint to stencil the numbers on (can get messy) or you can buy iron on paper for a printer attached to your PC (remember to reverse the image before you print it). We did both this summer for 6 kids and the jerseys still look nice.

You can get cotton t-shirts in Hobby Lobby. You can find the paper most places.

And if you have to get the league supplied shirts, do the above anyway and use the league ones as your backups in case of color clash.

If you are able to go the iron on paper route, you can probably also have a parent take digital pictures and do your own printing. This allows you to have many images to chose from and you don't get stuck with a bad shot. The downside might be the quality - but that washes out with the quantity.

The moral is that you can get away with getting good value and not paying too much money. You just have to be willing to do some of the work yourselves.

[loghyr]

Having taken the courses, I remain skeptical of their usefulness. I think this whole licensure track is actually part of the problem of youth soccer. The more gangs of adults go to school and overanalyze and get credentialed, the less likely it is that kids are going to be able to play free from adult-directed needs to win and perform.

Agreed - I came away from the D License very skeptical - very little training occurs at those courses.

Youth Module I and II - Lines, laps, and lectures are bad.

E License - A taste of how to do a technical evaluation.

D License - A technical and tactical evaluation.

If you don't already know how to coach (or play) soccer, you will not learn it in these courses.

[ranova]

Not having a license doesn't mean you are ignorant. Having a license is no guarentee against ignorance either. What concerns me is the number of licensed coaches that I see not following best practices and modeling their training presumeably after their high school football coach. I agree that with young kids basic coaching (teaching) skills are more important than soccer expertise. My biggest concern about the dumbed down approach to coaching education is that the non-player coach not getting any information about team tactics makes up his own inappropriate team tactics based on American football, starting with a basic misunderstanding of "formations" in soccer, not realizing that they are systems of play rather than physical locations on the field.

[LJSoccer]

Let me be perfectly clear... I'm not trying to be a jerk when I say this... but I'm sure it's going to come out that way. Based on your above comments, am I safe to assume you don't have a coaching license? I ask because the youth modules are more about how to nurture the needs of children than they are about player development. This is exactly why I believe every youth soccer coach in the US should be required to be licensed. I actually encourage the parents of my players to go through the youth courses just to get a better understanding of what we're attempting to accomplish. With that said, find a course and have some fun.

This is what separates soccer from all the "others." It's worth taking pride in the coaching education system currently in place for soccer coaches of all levels and abilities.

Making parents pay to volunteer with their kids is the worse possible thing that we can do. If you think that you are going to coach the next Mia Hamm or PELE you are very mistaken. I am all for education, don't get me wrong, but in the final analysis we need to spend time with our kids. When I went to take my "D" license class, I did an informal poll. Of the 25 persons in the class, 20 were going to work with boys and 5 of us were going to work with girls. By requiring licenses, you are by sheer math, going to do the little girls a grave disservice. As we say down here in Texas "old ugly is better than old nothin". A bad volunteer is better than no volunteer at all.

Next is the matter of cost. Not everyone has the money to pay for these classes. Youth sports are expensive enough, believe me I am the father of 4 and I know. Let these parents do their best and if they want more education make it voluntary, not mandatory.

Next is the matter of creating a privileged class. By requiring licenses you are going to make a privileged class out of those individuals that have them. Here in South Texas we are governed by the South Texas Youth Soccer Association. They have mandated that all coaches at all levels have a license. Well it's playoff time and many of the coaches of the teams that have made it to the playoffs don't have licenses. They are going to allow these coaches to coach if they apply for a waiver, oh and by the way pay for it. How asinine is this. The best teams in the state with non-licensed coaches, are having to get a waiver, while plenty of licensed coaches are sitting at home, polishing their diplomas. Believe me, the next step is requiring a certified trainer to be with the competitive teams. Of course a STYSA approved trainer. The circle will be complete. The average parent is out of the loop. The average parent may not can afford the game any more. Hello, softball and basketball, goodbye soccer.

Finally there is the problem with an institutional bigotry. Living here in South Texas has made something very clear to me. Licenses are ethnically cleansing the game. The immigrant parents that I am so lucky to work with are down right afraid of governing bodies. They are poor, hard working, with limited English in some cases and have forgotten more about the game of soccer than you or I will ever know. We will lose coaches because of this. No we have lost coaches because of this. I have 2 black players on my team. When I talked to their parents or grandparents in this case, about how complicated it was getting to coach the kids, they said that their kids could just play another sport and not worry with the player cards, tryouts, rules and regulations about who they could play for and where they could play. They said 40 dollars and a birth certificate is all they need to play basketball with out any hassles. Or as they put it "I smell a white man making this hard". Many of the girls from single parent homes will never have that single parent involved now.

Lastly licensing is an attempt to make an under achieving ODP system do better. Or as it was put to me "beat California". Well in this rush to "beat California" and make a state ODP coaching staff look good, the average player may be with out a coach. I am absolutely positive that we are not going to have enough coaches in our local club next year. Not enough rec. team coaches! Why, because people don't care about beating California and having to be licensed, they want to spend time with a bunch of 6 year olds little boys and girls who chase a ball around in a little pack. I am sure that STYSA will make up the difference in the number of coaches that we need when monkeys fly out of my butt.

[NHRef]

I've been down this road, went from a parent, to a coach, to a board member, now back to a parent who helps out the local refs, and my kids now coach!

couple of comments embedded below....

Just finished my 4th year of coaching my kids. Coached two teams U-8 and U-10, no problem with the kids and they were absolutely great. My beef is with the league.
A few examples:

- getting the roster two days before the first game


standard stuff, in our rec program this was done for two reasons: 1) the sign up deadline is based on school calendar to get the apps out, give them time to get em in and do the organization. 2) We could usually build a new team with the after deadline signups, so we waited. We did try and get them out to coaches 1 week before so they had time to call the players, but it was standard to hit the first rec game without a practice.


- no instructions for first-time coaches whatsoever


Terrible idea, but common. We ran coaches clinics at first, nobody showed. We then required E licenses for coaches, even paid for it for those who didn't have it. This helped.


- shirts for the kids were poor, not the right sizes, ripped in the wash


standard again, two issues: quality == $$ and sizes. Shirts have to be pre-ordered so you guess at sizes, results in a few kids wearing shirts to their knees and a few kids with shirts to small.


- no notification of schedule changes
- poor team photos (I and other parents complained, was told it was not the league's problem)


Both of these are poor communications on the board. Why change a rec schedule at all?


- no trophy for kids - just a crappy bag and water bottle and they were very disappointed(I ended up making Soccer goodie bags for them before the final game)


Ahhh, pet peeve of mine. We ran the gauntlet of options. Trophies, people complained about "dust collectors", medals, soccer balls, anythign we could think of. People always complained. Again, trophies cost money and they are actually a HUGE headache to the board (organizational thing, see comments below).


- fields not in good condition e.g. grass too long, cannot see lines on the field


If fields are not owned by the soccer program they are either school or town owned, best you can do at that point is donate time/money for fertilizer etc.


- bad range of ages in some divisions e.g. my 6 year old was playing with much bigger 8 year olds etc


Depends on the body count. You need enough in each division to make enough teams to make it fun. Our rec progam runs U6, U8, U11, high school age.

In general soccer programs at the town level are run by volunteers. Get involved, they should have by-laws and be registered with the state or town. Find out when the elections are, pool up 10 parents and go get your self elected. Trust me, if you have 10 votes you will win.

Here's what you will find:
- the board is just like you, a parent who wanted to help
- they are all tired and burnt out because nobody volunteers to help, but everyone complains.
- Even on the 5-10 person board, 2-3 will be doing all the work.

Hopefully you can step in and help and make some progress. It's alot of work.

[Mr Martin]

NHRef -- very nice post! Your experience is showing. :D Repp'ed.

[loghyr]

My biggest concern about the dumbed down approach to coaching education is that the non-player coach not getting any information about team tactics makes up his own inappropriate team tactics based on American football, starting with a basic misunderstanding of "formations" in soccer, not realizing that they are systems of play rather than physical locations on the field.

Or focusing too much on set pieces.

This is really bad at the early levels, with parent coaching spending minutes trying to position their players just right.

And if they do have practices at these ages, putting too much time into set pieces.

It isn't just the high school football coach mentality - if the fluid nature of the game is too hard to grasp, if the fundamentals are too hard to teach properly, then the parent coach focuses on what they perceive that they can fix in the kids.

Been there, done that. :eek:

[loghyr]

standard stuff, in our rec program this was done for two reasons: 1) the sign up deadline is based on school calendar to get the apps out, give them time to get em in and do the organization. 2) We could usually build a new team with the after deadline signups, so we waited. We did try and get them out to coaches 1 week before so they had time to call the players, but it was standard to hit the first rec game without a practice.


Or we are too busy fielding calls from parents wanting to know when their coaches are going to call.

Or we have to put Johnny with his brother and Johnny's mom forgot either the birth certificate or the play up form.

By the way, we have coaches for 10 of the U6 teams, but we need 6 more. We've called all of the parents up and they think that they are paying us to get them coaches. And they are too busy.

Or in the U16 girls, we have enough for 3 teams, but 1/2 of them won't play for Coach A, 1/3rd of them won't play for Coach B, and 2/3rds of them won't play for Coach C. Unless of course their best friend plays for Coach C, in which case it is okay. Hmm, is that last month's, this month's, or next month's best friend?

There are a lot of factors that go into team formation. And sometimes if there are several clubs which league teams together (common above U10 here), it just gets worse. You have to schedule for coaches doing multiple teams, tournaments at a complex, clubs having different start times, etc.

And sometimes the BOD gets into a rut, knowing from past experience that they can get the job done. They get too used to counting on themselves, that they forget new blood can be reliable.

[KevTheGooner]

Great stuff on here as usual.

As someone whose worked a lot with non-profits, I give you this bit of advice:

Sometimes a board needs to be shaken up. If you feel you can give the program better direction and organization, then talk to some of the parents who would support you and get on that board. And get some "allies" to come with you.

Our board had a shake-up last season and the difference in our travel program (in particular) is noticable. We're much more organized and supported by the club. :)