Offseason Near News and Rumor Thread One - Now with meat.

[Bolivianfuego]

Pablo Escobar? ;)

[CHICO13]

Pablo Escobar? ;)

Pablo looks perfect in Black and Gold. No need to bring him here.

[BBBulldog]

Gomez has reportedly drawn interest from clubs in Asia (how vague is that?), Argentina, and Mexico.


That doesn't bother me that much. Metrostars and Dallas bothers me more. I don't want to see Gomez elsewhere in league. :)

[Zman Gunner]

8 seems like too many. Is that in addition to the guys with green cards? I'd like to see more Americans develop, not fewer.

Green card holders are not counted in the International Player counts for MLS - as other have mentioned, the low salary cap will prevent teams from loading up on expensive foreign talent - instead, I would expect to see more reasonably priced South Amercians taking those roster spots and perhaps more foreign players from US colleges making it in the league as their salaries will be low like American college players.

[JoeW]

Tmas got it right with the point that the salary cap will regulate the number of foreign talent. Look at a possible DCU side.

Assume we re-sign Gomez, sign Veron, give some kind of an increase to Emilio, keep Fred. That's 4 SI's at about $1.1 million on a 2.4 million cap. That leaves $1.3 million for 14 other players (or less than $100k per player). Assuming that we have a couple of players like Olsen, Perkins, Moreno, maybe Vanney, who would all make around $100k (plus or minus $20k--and this assumes Vanney and Moreno re-sign for less) than there really is no room for players making more than $70k. Oh, we could sign someone for $150k but then we'd have to have a bunch of players who are either Gen-Ad players OR making a bit above MLS minimum salaries for veterans.

[John L]

Tmas got it right with the point that the salary cap will regulate the number of foreign talent. Look at a possible DCU side.

Assume we re-sign Gomez, sign Veron, give some kind of an increase to Emilio, keep Fred. That's 4 SI's at about $1.1 million on a 2.4 million cap. That leaves $1.3 million for 14 other players (or less than $100k per player). Assuming that we have a couple of players like Olsen, Perkins, Moreno, maybe Vanney, who would all make around $100k (plus or minus $20k--and this assumes Vanney and Moreno re-sign for less) than there really is no room for players making more than $70k. Oh, we could sign someone for $150k but then we'd have to have a bunch of players who are either Gen-Ad players OR making a bit above MLS minimum salaries for veterans.

Yes - And the higher cost of living in the US means the lowest any foreign player (and right now thats pretty much just Caribbean and Central & South American) would need to be better off here than back home is in the $100K range

[nobletea]

Yes - And the higher cost of living in the US means the lowest any foreign player (and right now thats pretty much just Caribbean and Central & South American) would need to be better off here than back home is in the $100K range

I had a somewhat lengthy post on this yesterday, but Big Soccer ate it.

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll just say I'm not too convinced the cap will keep the foreigners out. With green cards it will be pretty easy to get close to fielding a team without a single American citizen on the field.

Eight is too many. Here England is in coniptions because the EPL has too many foreigners and their NT is almost a joke, and we look more and more like we're following their example.

I agree that our clubs need more flexibility to mine SA for talent, but I think we've gone too far with this move.

[skippy]

Green card holders are legal permanent residents of the United States. In most cases, they are only a waiting period and a test away from becoming citizens. They can serve in the military and die for this country. The vast majority of them got here initially the right way.

Consequently, even if I felt the need to count fereners v. 'Mericans, which I do not, I would not feel bad at all counting greed card holders among the 'Mericans. But all of this counting to me smacks of overzealous xenophobia better suited to other leagues (eh hem, EPL) than to the league of North America. This is a continent of immigrants, built on opportunity for people from other places, why should the soccer league not reflect that? I'm okay with a limit, because it makes business sense, but complaining that it shouldn't be X, it should by Y because we'll have too many fereners, well ....

If the argument is that young American soccer players are not getting enough opportunities to ply their trade as professionals domestically and develop our national team, I would suggest that you need to make a decision about MLS as a soccer/football league. Either you can accept that there is not enough 'Merican talent to fully populate a 16 team league at a level of truly entertaining soccer, or you can accept that MLS is a third (perhaps fourth) tier league which while giving plenty of Americans a chance to play, doesn't really challenge their ability to improve. Although I'm not big on either/ors, I think this one is for real.

Also, this is not 1996. When a guy like Needham can make an informed and probably intelligent decision to go to the A-League and get better so that he gets paid more, or American players can get jobs in Norway, and second division Holland, etc. etc. etc., it isn't as though a player with a real game and real desire flat out can't find a job. Seriously, if someone isn't willing or able to do what it takes to grow his game (even if it means moving overseas) will he really be able to make the National team? If he can, will we really ever be impressed with him (LD anyone?)?

[JoeW]

I had a somewhat lengthy post on this yesterday, but Big Soccer ate it.

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll just say I'm not too convinced the cap will keep the foreigners out. With green cards it will be pretty easy to get close to fielding a team without a single American citizen on the field.

Eight is too many. Here England is in coniptions because the EPL has too many foreigners and their NT is almost a joke, and we look more and more like we're following their example.

I agree that our clubs need more flexibility to mine SA for talent, but I think we've gone too far with this move.

I agree that I don't want teams that field 11 players, none of whom are American by birth (not just citizenship b/c Georgio Chinaglia is now an American citizen).

Where I think this helps MLS though in the short terms is for those guys like Cancela and Llamosa who are from other countries, living in the USA and they initially fill out your bench. They basically expand the pool of talent.

Now....someone who doesn't buy DP's or MLS maximum salary players (Houston might be such a team) could use this to acquire a bunch of savvy foreign players. But what LAG fans don't see (their eyesight and perception blinded by the glitter of being a supper club) is that when you spend 1/3rd or half of your cap on 2-3 players, than you aren't signing Mendienta or Fowler as a 4th or 5th or 6th player. Instead, you're signing Pete Vagenas and Gordon and Kirk.

[seahawkdad]

...At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll just say I'm not too convinced the cap will keep the foreigners out. With green cards it will be pretty easy to get close to fielding a team without a single American citizen on the field.

Eight is too many. Here England is in coniptions because the EPL has too many foreigners and their NT is almost a joke, and we look more and more like we're following their example.

I agree that our clubs need more flexibility to mine SA for talent, but I think we've gone too far with this move.I share your concern.

I wonder, though, whether the parallel is complete here. Our better players tend to get snatched up by foreign teams, sometimes even directly out of the USSF developmental programs or from college, thereby often playing and learning at a higher level than they could here.

What I don't know is how many English players that don't catch on with the Premiership go abroad...or just sink down to the lower FA leagues.

That doesn't happen to our best. They don't drop down to the USL and they don't stay here.

So the impact on our national team may be different...assuming there will be room in our leagues to develop and pass on the Clint Dempsey type players.

[Sundevil9]

I had a somewhat lengthy post on this yesterday, but Big Soccer ate it.

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll just say I'm not too convinced the cap will keep the foreigners out. With green cards it will be pretty easy to get close to fielding a team without a single American citizen on the field.

Eight is too many. Here England is in coniptions because the EPL has too many foreigners and their NT is almost a joke, and we look more and more like we're following their example.

I agree that our clubs need more flexibility to mine SA for talent, but I think we've gone too far with this move.

You realize that any MLS team can have up to 7 now, right? This new rule is taking away the Youth International, Transitional International, and any other goofy monikers they've used for some of the spots. They're just adding one more spot.

[Atouk]

I had a somewhat lengthy post on this yesterday, but Big Soccer ate it.

At the risk of sounding xenophobic, I'll just say I'm not too convinced the cap will keep the foreigners out. With green cards it will be pretty easy to get close to fielding a team without a single American citizen on the field.

Eight is too many. Here England is in coniptions because the EPL has too many foreigners and their NT is almost a joke, and we look more and more like we're following their example.

I agree that our clubs need more flexibility to mine SA for talent, but I think we've gone too far with this move.They're just adding one to the total. We can have 4 SIs and 3 YIs now and, while teams can trade the YI spots, teams could still average 7 interntional players now (see here (http://web.mlsnet.com/about/league.jsp?section=regulations&content=overview)).

So it seems like this change would just a) add one international spot and b) remove the age distinction (they move from YI to SI the year they turn 25).

[skippy]

I wonder, though, whether the parallel is complete here.

It isn't, and for exactly the reasons you state.

So the impact on our national team may be different...assuming there will be room in our leagues to develop and pass on the Clint Dempsey type players.

And with a 16 team MLS and an Umpteen team A-league and the regional subleagues and the PDL ... there will be.

[seahawkdad]

I almost was going to argue that a virtuous cycle might be set up in that by bringing in better players the increased level of play would increase the interest in the game...thereby increasing the attractiveness of landing a franchise for a new team...thus expanding the league and the opportunity for American players to develop.

So I will now make that argument.

[JoeW]

You realize that any MLS team can have up to 7 now, right? This new rule is taking away the Youth International, Transitional International, and any other goofy monikers they've used for some of the spots. They're just adding one more spot.


Yep. But one modest change is the increase in the cap by $200k. Before, only someone like the Metrostars would have tried to sign 7-8 foreigners with a cap of $2.1 million. But someone like Houston (especially if they have no-one at MLS max salary) could pull it off. That's about $130k per player on the senior roster. Throw in a Gen-Ad player or two like Ashe who's cap exempt and a few guys like Ianni who don't make close to six digits and they might be the first team in MLS to have a bunch of foreign players like Ngwenya on their roster (ie: talent from small budget countries who aren't stars but can play key roles).

One other point is that some team's YI weren't ready for prime-time contributions. Some of them ended up on the development side of the house. But overall you're right: I don't expect MLS to suddenly find teams have only 1-2 Americans in the starting lineup. Frankly, I bet the team impacted the most by this is TFC--b/c Americans didn't qualify as YI and now they don't have to focus as much about having pedestrian, high-priced talent like Pozniak and Roda on their roster when they can sign a better but cheaper American like Grabavoy or Larentowicz or Talley.

[AlecW81]

I wouldn't mind if they kept the SI's limited to say 5 or 6, which wouldn't include a DP, and have an individual player salary cap at say 500k which wouldn't be counted against the teams salary cap. This would allow teams to pay developmental players a good bit more, as well as raising the salary for guys like Bryan Namoff. I'd go more into this, but I haven't slept for more than 3 hours a night in about 3 weeks, and really can't think straight.

[nobletea]

Thanks for all the reactions. You should have seen the longer original post. ;)

I know that Green card holders are citizens in all terms, but many of them would be questionable USNT players, IMO. Call me a traditionalist, but I'm not fond of the David Regis' of the world. I have absolutely ZERO problem with international players in MLS, so far as it does not impact the NT.

I do realize it's only adding 1 more international to the previous 7.

And I do realize the comparison to England is not precise.

And I'm not running around screaming that the sky is falling.

What I'm saying is that I see the slippery slope ahead.

We have 1 DP now. Soon we may have 2 per team.

We had 7 internationals, 3 of which were younger players not always likely to crack the starting lineup.

We had a smaller cap.

Each of those has shifted.

Like I said, I'm concerned because it would be very easy at some point to field a starting team composed of 1, 2, or no American born players likely to be used in the USNT pool.

I agree that because of our peculiar league structure there's no guarantee it will have a detrimental impact on the National teams.

I mentioned in one of these threads that I thought the league's plan for expansion was going to outpace the talent pool in this country. I think that's the real problem they are addressing, I'm just not sure I agree with their fix.

I'd rather be a second-rate league with fewer teams for now than risk diluting the national talent pool.

We'll see how it plays out.

[Atouk]

We had 7 internationals, 3 of which were younger players not always likely to crack the starting lineup.

<snip>

Like I said, I'm concerned because it would be very easy at some point to field a starting team composed of 1, 2, or no American born players likely to be used in the USNT pool.

<snip>

I mentioned in one of these threads that I thought the league's plan for expansion was going to outpace the talent pool in this country. I think that's the real problem they are addressing, I'm just not sure I agree with their fix.Of course, two or three clubs already field teams with 8 or 9 American players, but none "likely to be used in the USNT pool." ;)

And, I agree it seems that part of the reason for this move is to make sure that an expanded MLS doesn't mean a worse product. I'm not worried that this change will have a negative impact because I do think the cap will keep it in check and some of the imports will still be "younger players not always likely to crack the starting lineup."

[Sachin]

Competition is good. If American players want jobs, they will just have to get better.

[tmas]

Like I said, I'm concerned because it would be very easy at some point to field a starting team composed of 1, 2, or no American born players likely to be used in the USNT pool.


But how would that be possible if you're only allowed 8 international players? Unless DP's are outside of the International player rule too?

Personally, I think very little will change, except making the league better by... seahawkdad already said it. We need the help with the league expanding. There are a whole lot more American spots opening up then International spots with the expansion.