Prus - Yellow (As Given) or Red?

[jclepp]

I am surprised that there was nothing up here on the decision to ignore/downplay the headbutt. The players responded well to his decision to let them play today, but I am interested in some other takes on what could have been a critical decision in the match.

In your esteemed opinions, should he have shown red?

[redraslo]

yep, zidane all over again

[seanT]

Was at RFK today. I thought Weibel should have gotten yellow for provoking and Smith red for the headbutt. Even worse was when Houston was subbing out Nyguyna he was walking off and Smith was pushing him from behind to hurry him along.

I thought is was embarrasing that a player with a yellow card thought he could get away with that. But I guess he figured, "this guy is not gonna show me a red or he would have already"

I thought his decisions on at what point to blow a whistle for pushing were all over the place, but he mostly had a decent match.

[Claymore]

If you're going to show Smith any card in that situation, it has to be red (IMO). Prus was staring right at it, so I don't see how he could claim it was anything other than an intentional head-butt.

Alas, this was the MLS final, so you have to keep the players on the field. Remember Cobi Jones getting clothes-lined by Joey Franchino a few years back?

Prus had a great game otherwise, but that one had me scratching my head.

[Ref Flunkie]

If you're going to show Smith any card in that situation, it has to be red (IMO). Prus was staring right at it, so I don't see how he could claim it was anything other than an intentional head-butt.

Alas, this was the MLS final, so you have to keep the players on the field. Remember Cobi Jones getting clothes-lined by Joey Franchino a few years back?

Prus had a great game otherwise, but that one had me scratching my head.

I think it being a final was a big part of it. I also think that had the Houston player had blood anywhere, it would have been a red. I think Prus was looking for proof that there was contact made by the headbutt. I don't know, I think if I was doing the match and saw that, I would have went straight red, but Prus is obviously more of a referee then I ever will be, so I will defer to him in this one. I thought he had a really good game, even with the f-ugly uniforms trying to hold him down.

[PVancouver]

YGTBK.

Comparisons to Zidane are idiotic.

Excessive force or brutality? Get real.

[nsa]

Prus had a great game otherwise, but that one had me scratching my head.

The incident happened in the quadrant of the field nearest to where I was sittingmaybe 40 yards away. I thought that Smith used his chest to aggressively bump Weibel's shoulder. I didn't see any head to head contact and haven't gone back to look at the tape (and may never :rolleyes: ).




That said, I was really unhappy with two aspects of Prus' game. My biggest complaint is the dismissive manner with which he gestures for players to get up. This was a very physical game and players were knocked and dragged to the ground (by both teams). To decide not to call something is one thing, but to peremptorily accuse a player of repeatedly diving or milking a call does not help with game management. In general, Prus let an awful lot go, starting with the forearm by Jacqua in the second minute, with no card.

My second complaint is a bit more partisan. I was disappointed that Prus blew the whistle for full time at the stroke of 3 minutes despite the blatant time wasting done by Houston during the added time.

[Claymore]

I can tell you that the replay clearly showed Smith head-butting Weibel, although somewhat weakly. Still, it was an obvious case of striking, and Prus was staring right at them from less than 10 yards away.

If that had happened in a mid-season match in Columbus, Smith would have been watching the game from the locker room.

[Steve Long]

I interviewed both players in their locker rooms.

Smith explained that he had hit Waibel with his shoulder and added that he wasn't so stupid as to head butt in front of 30,000 people. Waibel also blew off the contact as normal and even enjoyable in a spirit of strong competition.

Steve Long, www.americansoccernews.net

[MassachusettsRef]

I've always rejected the premise--put forth by many--that all striking is worthy of a red card. Striking can be careless or reckless, just like the other first six penal fouls. Still, to me, this was a completely unnecessary head to head contact. Was it "brutality?" No. But the force was certainly excessive (since no intentional head-to-head contact is ever necessary) and I personally felt it was more violent conduct than unsporting behavior.

That being said, I think that it can safely be said that Alex Prus is the only US FIFA Referee that would give that as a yellow card--and, more importantly, people that follow Prus and the other MLS refs would expect him to give it as a yellow. Vaughn, Marrufo, Salazar, Toledo, Stott and guys before them like Valenzuela, Hall, Kennedy, etc. would have all--I believe--sent Smith off there.

So for Prus, I think this is consistent with how he's called his games over time. But it's inconsistent with the way referees in the rest of the league probably would have called it. Whether that's good or bad is, of course, up to individual opinion.

[Ref Flunkie]

That said, I was really unhappy with two aspects of Prus' game. My biggest complaint is the dismissive manner with which he gestures for players to get up. This was a very physical game and players were knocked and dragged to the ground (by both teams). To decide not to call something is one thing, but to peremptorily accuse a player of repeatedly diving or milking a call does not help with game management. In general, Prus let an awful lot go, starting with the forearm by Jacqua in the second minute, with no card.

My second complaint is a bit more partisan. I was disappointed that Prus blew the whistle for full time at the stroke of 3 minutes despite the blatant time wasting done by Houston during the added time.


I'll admit, I don't recall much time wasting by Houston while watching the game...at least nothing that would cause additional time to be added.

As for the gesturing to "get up", IMO there was WAYYY too much diving going on in that much. Yes it was physical, but players were falling down at every opportunity to try and draw a foul. My guess is that Prus was just sick of this. To be honest, I only recall him doing the "wave up" 3-4 times, and I think most of them were in the 2nd half. I did notice that he started to incorporate the "Stott safe sign" on no calls.

A total non-secquitur here but the more I watch these guys over and over, the more I wish I could be at their level just to be able to sit down and chat with them about all their experiences. That is one thing I LOVE about refereeing is the comradery between referees we know and how you almost feel like you DO know people that you've never met because you are both referees.

[gildarkevin]

I interviewed both players in their locker rooms.

Smith explained that he had hit Waibel with his shoulder and added that he wasn't so stupid as to head butt in front of 30,000 people. Waibel also blew off the contact as normal and even enjoyable in a spirit of strong competition.

Steve Long, www.americansoccernews.net

Interesting that Waibel claims to have blown off the contact, given that he went down appearing to grab his face and then was saying something to Prus indicating he was hit in the face (or maybe he talked Prus out of giving a red by saying it was nothing).

When I saw it, both live and on replay, I thought that Smith was off for an intentional headbutt. When I saw the yellow, I figured he either hadn't made contact (though I still surmised that it should have been a red for the intent to strike) or that he didn't really get him with his head which left me thinking that, perhaps, Prus should have cautioned Waibel for simulating (making the contact appear worse than it was).

[lmorin]

I was rather astonished that there was no red card, but upon reconsideration, a yellow seems reasonable. My reaction was pure reflex built upon the fact that, as MassachusettsRef suggested, nearly all refs are going to give a red. Here, there was clearly a strike, but it did not rise to the seriousness warranting an ejection. Good for Prus. I liked his game.

I did not like Kano Smith. He, IMHO, was the reason New England lost. Smith is the only weak player on the Revs, contributing virtually nothing to their attack. To me, it was clear that the Dynamo gave him a lot of space and time on the ball because they could. They knew he would do nothing productive with it. One less guy to really worry about.

[Pierre Head]

I've always rejected the premise--put forth by many--that all striking is worthy of a red card. Striking can be careless or reckless, just like the other first six penal fouls. Still, to me, this was a completely unnecessary head to head contact. Was it "brutality?" No. But the force was certainly excessive (since no intentional head-to-head contact is ever necessary) and I personally felt it was more violent conduct than unsporting behavior.

That being said, I think that it can safely be said that Alex Prus is the only US FIFA Referee that would give that as a yellow card--and, more importantly, people that follow Prus and the other MLS refs would expect him to give it as a yellow. Vaughn, Marrufo, Salazar, Toledo, Stott and guys before them like Valenzuela, Hall, Kennedy, etc. would have all--I believe--sent Smith off there.

So for Prus, I think this is consistent with how he's called his games over time. But it's inconsistent with the way referees in the rest of the league probably would have called it. Whether that's good or bad is, of course, up to individual opinion.

Another black eye for MLS officiating (no pun intended!). A really easy decision to give, and Prus blew it. If what is stated above is true, that Prus would be expected to give a yellow, what does it take for him to give a red? This is a blatant disregard for TLOG, and someone who refs like this
consistently should not be at the MLS level, let alone on the FIFA list. How many incidents like this will we see now in other games, and the ref gives only a yellow, because watching the biggest game in the US pro soccer calendar, that is what the ref did? No, it was simply a disgrace, and an embarrassment to the entire referee program. But not entirely unexpected based on what has has been the standard in MLS for years. I am not sure I totally agree with the above post. Although I expect those other referees might have sent Smith off in a regular season game, it seems that the standards and rules change for the post-season games, and they might not have sent him off in the Final either. There is a message in this to the players and coaches: you can get away with SFP or VC in Finals, so go to it!

[Ref Flunkie]

Another black eye for MLS officiating (no pun intended!). A really easy decision to give, and Prus blew it. If what is stated above is true, that Prus would be expected to give a yellow, what does it take for him to give a red? This is a blatant disregard for TLOG, and someone who refs like this
consistently should not be at the MLS level, let alone on the FIFA list. How many incidents like this will we see now in other games, and the ref gives only a yellow, because watching the biggest game in the US pro soccer calendar, that is what the ref did? No, it was simply a disgrace, and an embarrassment to the entire referee program. But not entirely unexpected based on what has has been the standard in MLS for years. I am not sure I totally agree with the above post. Although I expect those other referees might have sent Smith off in a regular season game, it seems that the standards and rules change for the post-season games, and they might not have sent him off in the Final either. There is a message in this to the players and coaches: you can get away with SFP or VC in Finals, so go to it!


Wow, can one be any more melodramatic? Yeah I bet next year's opening match will have headbutt after headbutt occur due to this injustice of epic proportions.

[uniteo]

Another black eye for MLS officiating (no pun intended!).


I'm more disappointed that he refused to award a clear penalty kick to Houston about 10 minutes into the game. I don't get the hesitance to call a pk in a big game...it sets the tone for the whole game that it won't be a festival of fouls and if anything is likely to make for a better game. But mostly a foul in the box is a foul in the box.

[oldmanreferee]

A total non-secquitur here but the more I watch these guys over and over, the more I wish I could be at their level just to be able to sit down and chat with them about all their experiences. That is one thing I LOVE about refereeing is the comradery between referees we know and how you almost feel like you DO know people that you've never met because you are both referees.[/QUOTE]
Where are you located and havef you alll not had a advanced referee clinic with one of them at the clinic? Maybe ask you SRA to bring one in.

[Ref Flunkie]

Where are you located and havef you alll not had a advanced referee clinic with one of them at the clinic? Maybe ask you SRA to bring one in.

Oh yeah we have these and I attend the state clinic where we have them. However, those are rarely "war story/what I learned" type discussions and more "USSF recert" stuff. I'm guessing you hear a lot more interesting stuff when you are out to dinner with these guys vs. a classroom setting.

[andymoss]

Oh yeah we have these and I attend the state clinic where we have them. However, those are rarely "war story/what I learned" type discussions and more "USSF recert" stuff. I'm guessing you hear a lot more interesting stuff when you are out to dinner with these guys vs. a classroom setting.

Our Advanced Clinic this year was run by Jason Krnac. It was very, very beneficial. Yes, we covered all the required material, but a lot of it was supported with personal experiences by both Jason and other senior referees attending.

Jeff Hink runs our Intermediate Clinic which is also enormously valuable.

Both bring a lot to the meetings in terms of personal memories and "One time, this thing happened..." type stories.

[oldmanreferee]

Oh yeah we have these and I attend the state clinic where we have them. However, those are rarely "war story/what I learned" type discussions and more "USSF recert" stuff. I'm guessing you hear a lot more interesting stuff when you are out to dinner with these guys vs. a classroom setting.

yeah that is true they have to be careful in the classroom setting. Maybe at the next one you say to the instructor. Hey when your done maybe lunch or dinner or can i email you sometime and talk more with you