Platini Top Ten All-Time?

[Tribune]

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13210390&postcount=32

Lanman, could you tell us whom would you put ahead of Platini ? The usual suspects are Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Garrincha or Puskas, but whom else ? (Zico would also be, but he's severely underrated because he played mostly in South-America).

[Tribune]

You must have really restraint yourself there. Only 6 Brazilians in the first team, and only 4 in the second team.

I think you suspect the man unfairly, Gregoriak. :p A bias might that be, but in favor of the 50-70s generation. If you look closely at the first team, you would notice that, if you consider it as the best between 1940 and 1975, the first list of players has almost no fault.
Can't blame him though for the subjectivity when that era produced the greatest offensive gems (with some exceptions) the world has ever seen and the 50s and early 60s (until 1962) was practically the pinnacle of the offensive football...

And, dor02, let's not call anyone stupid, in the end he did not put HIS name on the list. :D (Though can't figure out what is Jackie Charlton doing there, I would take an Elias Figueroa or Jose Santamaria ahead of him without any hesitation).

[lanman]

Lanman, could you tell us whom would you put ahead of Platini ? The usual suspects are Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Garrincha or Puskas, but whom else ? (Zico would also be, but he's severely underrated because he played mostly in South-America).

In addition to those you named, Eusebio and Zico would make my top 9. After that it really just depends on which way the wind's blowing. Some days Platini would make out my top 10, other days I would have the likes of Best, Rivera, Maldini, Finney or Muller.

[kingkong1]

I've got to say Jack Charlton is not widely considered to be among the best centre-backs England has produced, let alone the world.Present your arms, I'm presenting you mine :) :

Jack Charlton

England,Leeds, Irish Manager,World Cup winner

http://www.tobn.co.uk/assets/images/artists/jack-charlton.jpg
Profile
Football player for Leeds and England; manager of the Irish national side and World Cup winner.
Date of birth: 8th May 1935 (Ashington).
League appearances: 629 for Leeds United - a club record (70 goals).
England internationals: 35 Full caps (6 goals).
Other honours: World Cup (1966); Inter-Cities’ Fairs Cup (1968-71); League Championship (1968-69); FA Cup (1972); League Cup (1968); Footballer of the Year (1967);
Manager of the Year – Middlesborough (1974).
Managerial career: Middlesborough (1973-77); Sheffield Wednesday (1977-83); Newcastle United (1984); Republic of Ireland (1986-95).

Although Jack says he is now retired from after dinner speaking, if something special comes along we will always ask him and for other enquires we will pleased to ask him on your behalf.
Summary
Jack Charlton achieved more as a player and manager than almost any other man in the history of English Football. Certainly, few can rival his record in the World Cup. A tall, determined centre-half in the only English side to win the greatest of all the world game's competitions, Jack Charlton returned twice to the premier stage as manager of the Republic of Ireland.
Even more remarkable than Jack Charlton's achievements at the highest level was the timing of them. For both on and off the pitch, the greatest successes came the man's way just when they seemed likely to elude him.
As a player he had long lived in the shadow of his famous brother, Bobby, when at 29 years of age he joined his younger sibling in the England set-up. Already a fixture in the defence of Don Revie's emerging Leeds United, Jack Charlton's elevation to Alf Ramsey's squad heralded the onset of the most glorious of sporting twilights.
For, during this period Charlton competed successfully on two fronts. At club level, Leeds challenged relentlessly for titles and trophies, while England depended on “The Giraffe” as the team moved on from World Cup glory to the 1968 European Nations finals, finishing third. Thereafter, Jack Charlton played his part in the build-up to the 1970 World Cup Finals, helping England qualify for the tournament in Mexico.
Moving into management in 1973, his impact was immediate as Middlesborough galloped to promotion from division two. Going on to manage Sheffield Wednesday and Newcastle United, Jack Charlton next took over the reins of the Eire side. Galvanising his adopted nation's team he led it to the finals of the 1988 European Championships before confirming his status as national Irish hero by guiding the Republic to the quarter finals of the 1990 World Cup.


Jack Charlton

Position Centre back
Born 08 May 1935, Ashington (England)
Height 186 cm
Weight 82 kg
International Caps England: 35 full

A one club man - and a one man awkward squad. That was Jack Charlton - big brother of Bobby and one of the greatest central defenders to have played the game. Early on in his career, his firmly held opinions and attitude did not make for a good relationship with the management, but under Don Revie he blossomed. He finally won international recognition in 1965, going on to be a crucial part of the 1966 World Cup-winning team and picking up a total of 35 caps and the 1967 Footballer of the Year award. He recognised that he had needed a bit of a kick up the backside to spur him on - in 1967, he said: "After following in the footsteps of my uncles Jack George and Jimmy Milburn to Elland Road just after I left school in Ashington I was scarcely a model of what a young player should be... I had my own ideas and I am afraid they did not always coincide with the methods of the men in charge. Don said: 'You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Instead of playing centre-forward in the reserves with your ability you should be playing centre-half for England.' My career should be a warning to every young lad who comes into the game. With everything in my favour... I still managed to get off the rails and waste many valuable years before I got on the right track."

As a player, his longevity was impressive and he was nearly 37 when he picked up his FA Cup winners medal in 1972. Age was catching up with him, and after a further year at Leeds, he retired from the field of play.

leedsfans.org.uk

FUNNY, THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG HERE, DOR02! THAT AT LEAST PROVES THE GUY WAS NOT 'STUPID' :p...

[lanman]

Jack Charlton achieved more as a player and manager than almost any other man in the history of English Football. Certainly, few can rival his record in the World Cup. A tall, determined centre-half in the only English side to win the greatest of all the world game's competitions.

Stephane Guivarc'h, Christophe Dugarry and Alain Boghossian all won the World Cup - it does not make them great players.

Charlton was a good domestic player who performed well at times for England - nothing more.

[Gregoriak]

I kinda like the idea of having Jacky Charlton in an all-time XI. Him straightening it out with some fancy Brazilians ... golden.

[kingkong1]

Stephane Guivarc'h, Christophe Dugarry and Alain Boghossian all won the World Cup - it does not make them great players.

Charlton was a good domestic player who performed well at times for England - nothing more.Well, it's you who are saying that!...

It wasn't me though who said that he's been one of the greatest central defenders to have played the game, as you can read above.

It's your word against a specialized publication.

But I'll prefer yours though :rolleyes: ...

Anyway what's not at stake is if J.Ch. deserves or not being among the Top 11, but 'what the hell is poor Platini doing there in the seats of Di Stéfano, Pelé, Maradona, Bobby Charlton, Didi etc etc'???...

They were all 'sent to run', and the new-elected Le Roi now gives the orders! :o...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1593/reizinho023ec10dtc2.png

[lanman]

It's your word against a specialized publication.

leedsfans.org.uk ???? Not going to be biased at all, is it? And it hardly counts as a "specialized publication".


http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamHons/HonsAllTimeTmsEng.html

He is included only in the England World Cup squads, which is reasonable enough as he won the tournament. Any all-time team and he is notably absent.

[kingkong1]

leedsfans.org.uk ???? Not going to be biased at all, is it? And it hardly counts as a "specialized publication".

http://www.englandfootballonline.com/TeamHons/HonsAllTimeTmsEng.html

He is included only in the England World Cup squads, which is reasonable enough as he won the tournament. Any all-time team and he is notably absent.Now I got you, involuntarily it's true, but I got you:

I had forgotten to digit the link for the 1st part of my post (the one that says: Jack Charlton achieved more as a player and manager than almost any other man in the history of English Football. Certainly, few can rival his record in the World Cup. A tall, determined centre-half in the only English side to win the greatest of all the world game's competitions).

Here is the link:

http://www.tobn.co.uk/all-personalities/jack-charlton.php

Read about that publication: does that look 'suspicious' to you?...

Anyway: his name appears ONLY in England World Cup squads? (tell me: what else could any Englishman aspire to?)...

Besides :eek:!, how unelegant are those Brittish players, they cynically cite their own names as 'the best'.

Even worse, Bobby Charlton includes his name and doesn't even remember his own brother (mondo cane)!...

More 'biased' than that, impossible!...

Anyway, you always forget the 2nd part of my post when it convenes to you.But I'll prefer yours though...

Anyway what's not at stake is if J.Ch. deserves or not being among the Top 11, but 'what the hell is poor Platini doing there in the seats of Di Stéfano, Pelé, Maradona, Bobby Charlton, Didi etc etc'???...

They were all 'sent to run', and the new-elected Le Roi now gives the orders! :o...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1593/reizinho023ec10dtc2.png It looks like some of you desperately clinged to the 'extremely important' J.Charlton issue just in order to evade the main question..

[UEFA]

I think alot of people underrate dutch Legends

Is Carlos Alberto really any better than Wim Suurbier?

Is Jack Charlton better than BArry Hulshoff or Israel?

What about wim van hanegem or Johan Neeskens, why aren't they in any World XI

[babaorum]

Anyway what's not at stake is if J.Ch. deserves or not being among the Top 11, but 'what the hell is poor Platini doing there in the seats of Di Stéfano, Pelé, Maradona, Bobby Charlton, Didi etc etc'???...

They were all 'sent to run', and the new-elected Le Roi now gives the orders! :o...

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1593/reizinho023ec10dtc2.png

See the arguments already exposed in that threat...

Considering most football fans and 'respected experts' generally agree to pick Platini in their top 10 list or very close to it you must have some very solid arguments to claim that players like Didi, Gerson, Tostao (!), Bobby Charlton to name a few are ahead of him. Unfortunately we've not seen any of these arguments yet... Unless you consider that being born Brazilian give these players (except Charlton of course) an automatic right to be considered an all-time great ? :rolleyes:

[kingkong1]

See the arguments already exposed in that threat...

Considering most football fans and 'respected experts' generally agree to pick Platini in their top 10 list or very close to it you must have some very solid arguments to claim that players like Didi, Gerson, Tostao (!), Bobby Charlton to name a few are ahead of him. Unfortunately we've not seen any of these arguments yet... Unless you consider that being born Brazilian give these players (except Charlton of course) an automatic right to be considered an all-time great ? :rolleyes:
Oops, a correction there!...

'Most European fans and respected critics"...

Evaded the question once more: you conveniently avoided Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Puskas, all of them by essence playmakers (two of them Argentinians, one Hungarian and only one Brazilian)...

And I insist (I know you won't respond though: you'll end up saying as before 'Don't bug me, look in the thread for the answer'...):

What is your Petit Roi doing in those guys' immortal seats, would you be kind enough to tell me?...

But if you want him to be among the 'Top Ten', so be it: he could polish their shoes, before and after the games, and what an honour wouldn't that be :D...

But Didi (MVP Player of the World in 1958), Gérson (scored the decisive goal against Italy in the 1970 WC final), Bobby Charlton, Tostão (if you don't know, the genius that once thrust a ball under Bobby Moore's legs, before allowing Pelé to donate to Jairzinho the most thrilling goal of all cups: all in a matter of seconds), and even Zico (1981 Club's World champion) would be more than enough.

On the contrary of Platini - who won nothing - they were all world champions, Didi even twice (Di Stéfano and Puskas even got jealous of him in Real Madrid)...

If that's not evidence, what else will be?...

You know why Platini is there in that midfield: European pride speaking louder...

How come to vote in a South American (be it Pelé, 'El Pibe', Di Stéfano or Didi) to COMMAND an All-Time World 'Top 11'?...

Let's vote in 'them' for defenders (C. Alberto, N. & D. Santos), 'send' Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona etc to the 'front' & let that crucial midfield to us!...

Besides Cruyjff - an undisputabe genius - Platini will be useful (good player, intelligent &...has everything to be the future UEFA president! ;) ...)

PS: If you come back to the Jack Charlton issue
you'll be a little better off!...

[dor02]

Jack Charlton

England,Leeds, Irish Manager,World Cup winner

Profile
Football player for Leeds and England; manager of the Irish national side and World Cup winner.
Date of birth: 8th May 1935 (Ashington).
League appearances: 629 for Leeds United - a club record (70 goals).
England internationals: 35 Full caps (6 goals).
Other honours: World Cup (1966); Inter-Cities’ Fairs Cup (1968-71); League Championship (1968-69); FA Cup (1972); League Cup (1968); Footballer of the Year (1967);
Manager of the Year – Middlesborough (1974).
Managerial career: Middlesborough (1973-77); Sheffield Wednesday (1977-83); Newcastle United (1984); Republic of Ireland (1986-95).

Although Jack says he is now retired from after dinner speaking, if something special comes along we will always ask him and for other enquires we will pleased to ask him on your behalf.
Summary
Jack Charlton achieved more as a player and manager than almost any other man in the history of English Football. Certainly, few can rival his record in the World Cup. A tall, determined centre-half in the only English side to win the greatest of all the world game's competitions, Jack Charlton returned twice to the premier stage as manager of the Republic of Ireland.
Even more remarkable than Jack Charlton's achievements at the highest level was the timing of them. For both on and off the pitch, the greatest successes came the man's way just when they seemed likely to elude him.
As a player he had long lived in the shadow of his famous brother, Bobby, when at 29 years of age he joined his younger sibling in the England set-up. Already a fixture in the defence of Don Revie's emerging Leeds United, Jack Charlton's elevation to Alf Ramsey's squad heralded the onset of the most glorious of sporting twilights.
For, during this period Charlton competed successfully on two fronts. At club level, Leeds challenged relentlessly for titles and trophies, while England depended on “The Giraffe” as the team moved on from World Cup glory to the 1968 European Nations finals, finishing third. Thereafter, Jack Charlton played his part in the build-up to the 1970 World Cup Finals, helping England qualify for the tournament in Mexico.
Moving into management in 1973, his impact was immediate as Middlesborough galloped to promotion from division two. Going on to manage Sheffield Wednesday and Newcastle United, Jack Charlton next took over the reins of the Eire side. Galvanising his adopted nation's team he led it to the finals of the 1988 European Championships before confirming his status as national Irish hero by guiding the Republic to the quarter finals of the 1990 World Cup.


Jack Charlton

Position Centre back
Born 08 May 1935, Ashington (England)
Height 186 cm
Weight 82 kg
International Caps England: 35 full

A one club man - and a one man awkward squad. That was Jack Charlton - big brother of Bobby and one of the greatest central defenders to have played the game. Early on in his career, his firmly held opinions and attitude did not make for a good relationship with the management, but under Don Revie he blossomed. He finally won international recognition in 1965, going on to be a crucial part of the 1966 World Cup-winning team and picking up a total of 35 caps and the 1967 Footballer of the Year award. He recognised that he had needed a bit of a kick up the backside to spur him on - in 1967, he said: "After following in the footsteps of my uncles Jack George and Jimmy Milburn to Elland Road just after I left school in Ashington I was scarcely a model of what a young player should be... I had my own ideas and I am afraid they did not always coincide with the methods of the men in charge. Don said: 'You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Instead of playing centre-forward in the reserves with your ability you should be playing centre-half for England.' My career should be a warning to every young lad who comes into the game. With everything in my favour... I still managed to get off the rails and waste many valuable years before I got on the right track."

As a player, his longevity was impressive and he was nearly 37 when he picked up his FA Cup winners medal in 1972. Age was catching up with him, and after a further year at Leeds, he retired from the field of play.

leedsfans.org.uk

FUNNY, THERE MUST BE SOMETHING WRONG HERE, DOR02! THAT AT LEAST PROVES THE GUY WAS NOT 'STUPID' You got that off a Leeds website. They are going to show some bias.

I'm not saying that J Charlton is crap but it is totally absurd to rate him higher than a guy like Baresi. I wouldn't rate Moore higher than Baresi and Moore is the best CB that England has produced.

By the way, I stated that your opinion was stupid.

And, dor02, let's not call anyone stupid, in the end he did not put HIS name on the list. :D (Though can't figure out what is Jackie Charlton doing there, I would take an Elias Figueroa or Jose Santamaria ahead of him without any hesitation).That's true. I would have been better off using a word like ludicrous instead of stupid though.

[Perú FC]

We'd have to have at least 22 players, distributed in 2 complete teams, 1st and 2nd team (with goalies, defenders, defensive midfielders) to include players, for instance, like Best, Eusébio, Matthews, Banks, Gérson, Charlton, Rivelino, Moore, and in my opinion even Maradona (a 2nd best team player for me, under that concept)
1st Team

- Lev Yashin (Soviet Union)
- Franco Baresi (Italy)
- Bobby Moore (England)
- Carlos Alberto (Brazil)
- Roberto Carlos (Brazil)
- Franz Beckenbauer (Germany)
- Zinedine Zidane (France)
- Diego Maradona (Argentina)
- Johan Cruyff (Holland)
- Pelé (Brazil)
- Alfredo Di Stéfano (Argentina / Spain)

------------------ Yashin -------------------
-------------- Baresi -- Moore --------------
Carlos Alberto --------------- Roberto Carlos
---------------- Beckenbauer ----------------
----- Cruyff ----- Zidane ----- Maradona ----
------------ Pelé ------ Di Stéfano ---------

2nd Team

- Peter Schmeichel (Denmark)
- Domingos Da Guía (Brazil)
- Daniel Passarella (Argentina)
- Djalma Santos (Brazil)
- Paolo Maldini (Italy)
- Frank Rijkaard (Holland)
- Michel Platini (France)
- George Best (Northern Ireland)
- Garrincha (Brazil)
- Eusebio (Portugal)
- Marco van Basten (Holland)

------------------ Schmeichel ------------------
------------ Passarella -- Da Guía -------------
Djalma Santos -------------------------- Maldini
------------------- Rijkaard -------------------
-- Garrincha ------ Platini ----------- Best ---
----------- van Basten --- Eusebio -------------

3rd Team

- Sepp Maier (Germany)
- Ruud Krol (Holland)
- Mózer (Brazil)
- Javier Zanetti (Argentina)
- Nilton Santos (Brazil)
- Lothar Matthäus (Germany)
- Bobby Charlton (England)
- Zico (Brazil)
- Stanley Matthews (England)
- Férenc Puskas (Hungary)
- Ronaldo (Brazil)

------------------ Maier --------------------
-------------- Krol ---- Mózer --------------
Zanetti ----------------------- Nilton Santos
----------------- Matthäus ------------------
---- Matthews ---- Zico ------- Charlton ----
----------- Ronaldo ---- Puskas -------------

[Bauser]

On the contrary of Platini - who won nothing

Platini won plenty. He won more or less every desirable trophy a European player could possibly win except for the World Cup:

- European Nations Championships (topscorer of the tournament, goalscorer in final)
- World Club Cup (Toyota cup) (goalscorer in final)
- European Champions Cup (matchwinner in the final)
- European Cupwinners Cup
- European Super Cup
- Multiple Italian league championships
- Italian cup
- French league and cup

Not to mention a number of heavy personal awards. Among them "European player of the Year" three times. A record shared with Cruijff and later Van Basten.

Many other all-time legends have had plenty of quality support up front during their fruitful World Cup tournaments which has somehow helped in elevating their status for a global audience. Platini didn't have that luxury. Bellone, Six and Stopyra weren't downright poor, but not exactly top notch forwards either. One can make a possible exception for Jean-Pierre Papin who featured on and off in the 1986 WC, but he was at the time far away from the great player he would turn out to be some years later. Platini's World Cup career ended with two painful semifinal losses. Questions on what could have been with strikers remotely close to Fontaine-Henry-Trezeguet caliber will forever be unanswered.

Platini is not at the level of Pele, Maradona or Cruijff, but certainly more than worthy enough to sit alongside guys like Charlton, Gerson and Tostao in my opinion.

[lanman]

Oops, a correction there!...

'Most European fans and respected critics"...

Which country is Placar from? There was me thinking it was Brazil when I must be mistaken.

Evaded the question once more: you conveniently avoided Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Puskas, all of them by essence playmakers (two of them Argentinians, one Hungarian and only one Brazilian)...

Those four are recognised throughout football as four of the very best players ever - certainly far more so than Tostoa or Gerson.

And Puskas was definitely not a playmaker.



But Didi (MVP Player of the World in 1958), Gérson (scored the decisive goal against Italy in the 1970 WC final), Bobby Charlton, Tostão (if you don't know, the genius that once thrust a ball under Bobby Moore's legs, before allowing Pelé to donate to Jairzinho the most thrilling goal of all cups: all in a matter of seconds), and even Zico (1981 Club's World champion) would be more than enough.

As has been said before, Guivarc'h, Dugarry and Boghossian are all world champions. A simple trophy haul does nothing to determine the quality of a player.

On the contrary of Platini - who won nothing - they were all world champions, Didi even twice (Di Stéfano and Puskas even got jealous of him in Real Madrid)...

I'm sure they were jealous and you're not just making things up now.

If that's not evidence, what else will be?...

So evidence supporting Gerson is that he scored a decisive goal in a final. Go and look at Euro 1984 (where Platini scored the winning goal in every game) or the 1985 European Cup final.


You know why Platini is there in that midfield: European pride speaking louder...

He's there because his record speaks for itself and he is held in high regard throughout the world. It can't be helped if some people have a chip on their shoulder over him

How come to vote in a South American (be it Pelé, 'El Pibe', Di Stéfano or Didi) to COMMAND an All-Time World 'Top 11'?...

Let's vote in 'them' for defenders (C. Alberto, N. & D. Santos), 'send' Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona etc to the 'front' & let that crucial midfield to us!...

Didi is a moot point as he featured in precisely zero of the teams you linked to. The other 3 regularly played as forwards throughout their career, but why let facts get in the way of a rant?

[babaorum]

Oops, a correction there!...

'Most European fans and respected critics"...

Evaded the question once more: you conveniently avoided Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Puskas, all of them by essence playmakers (two of them Argentinians, one Hungarian and only one Brazilian)...

And I insist (I know you won't respond though: you'll end up saying as before 'Don't bug me, look in the thread for the answer'...):

What is your Petit Roi doing in those guys' immortal seats, would you be kind enough to tell me?...

But if you want him to be among the 'Top Ten', so be it: he could polish their shoes, before and after the games, and what an honour wouldn't that be :D...

But Didi (MVP Player of the World in 1958), Gérson (scored the decisive goal against Italy in the 1970 WC final), Bobby Charlton, Tostão (if you don't know, the genius that once thrust a ball under Bobby Moore's legs, before allowing Pelé to donate to Jairzinho the most thrilling goal of all cups: all in a matter of seconds), and even Zico (1981 Club's World champion) would be more than enough.

On the contrary of Platini - who won nothing - they were all world champions, Didi even twice (Di Stéfano and Puskas even got jealous of him in Real Madrid)...

If that's not evidence, what else will be?...

You know why Platini is there in that midfield: European pride speaking louder...

How come to vote in a South American (be it Pelé, 'El Pibe', Di Stéfano or Didi) to COMMAND an All-Time World 'Top 11'?...

Let's vote in 'them' for defenders (C. Alberto, N. & D. Santos), 'send' Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona etc to the 'front' & let that crucial midfield to us!...

Besides Cruyjff - an undisputabe genius - Platini will be useful (good player, intelligent &...has everything to be the future UEFA president! ;) ...)

PS: If you come back to the Jack Charlton issue
you'll be a little better off!...

:confused:I did not avoid Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Puskas. In fact I've neversaid Platini was at their level -I 've even said quite the opposite- so why do you suddenly talk about them ? Your argument is -again- quite fallacious.
About the other players you mentioned, winning a WC is obviously not enough to be considered an all-time great... I don't care about Gerson scoring the decisive ball bla bla bla... or Tostao having a nice move vs England... or Didi being MVP in 58 (so what ? Kopa won the Ballon d'Or that year and eclipsed him later in Real Madrid. As for Platini, he was also MVP of the world in 84 and won the Ballon d'Or back to back to back).
Have any of these players -except Zico as I've already pointed out earlier in this thread- ever reached Platini's 82-85 level combining, goalscoring and playmaking ? No they have not. Have they ever done something as brilliant as Platini's Euro 84 including in the WC you mentioned ? The answer is clear yet again : they have not... and I don't care about your Europe vs South America stuff it's bullsh!t. It only shows your arrogance and ignorance like claiming Platini never won anything.

[Real Ray]

The idea that Platini represents some kind of European bias, I think is silly. But I do think he does represent an ideal and romantic view about football that does shape our opinions.

The manner in which he both won and lost, makes him a very sympathetic figure-I'm guilty of this in a way; I have a strong affection for that French side. A wonderful midfield, the "Green Angel," Rocheteau ...a very charismatic side. It was a side for the football purist and romantics.

And if you look at his key moments-the '82 & 86 semi-finals vs W. Germany; the master class he gave at Euro '84 (to a home crowd as well); Heysel-that's the stuff motion pictures, really.

[kingkong1]

Platini won plenty. He won more or less every desirable trophy a European player could possibly win except for the World Cup:

- European Nations Championships (topscorer of the tournament, goalscorer in final)
- World Club Cup (Toyota cup) (goalscorer in final)
- European Champions Cup (matchwinner in the final)
- European Cupwinners Cup
- European Super Cup
- Multiple Italian league championships
- Italian cup
- French league and cup

Not to mention a number of heavy personal awards. Among them "European player of the Year" three times. A record shared with Cruijff and later Van Basten.

Many other all-time legends have had plenty of quality support up front during their fruitful World Cup tournaments which has somehow helped in elevating their status for a global audience. Platini didn't have that luxury. Bellone, Six and Stopyra weren't downright poor, but not exactly top notch forwards either. One can make a possible exception for Jean-Pierre Papin who featured on and off in the 1986 WC, but he was at the time far away from the great player he would turn out to be some years later. Platini's World Cup career ended with two painful semifinal losses. Questions on what could have been with strikers remotely close to Fontaine-Henry-Trezeguet caliber will forever be unanswered.

Platini is not at the level of Pele, Maradona or Cruijff, but certainly more than worthy enough to sit alongside guys like Charlton, Gerson and Tostao in my opinion.OK,- World Club Cup (Toyota cup) (goalscorer in final)There he ties with Zico, but has no further World (NT) titles in his curriculum (on the contrary of the above cited Charlton, Gérson or Tostão) - although in my opinion that's not totally decisive; nevertheless nobody can deny it's an important asset. Platini's World Cup career ended with two painful semifinal losses.Zico's quarterfinal losses to Italy and France hurt the same (or even more...).

In that aspect they are definitely brothers in 'tears' :( ...

My point is that Platini in the midfield in a Top 11 is a 'little' too much when the above mentioned Didi, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Pelé are/were the masters of the position (and none of them was contemplated at the critics' overall All-Time team displayed some posts before)

There is an interesting predisposition for overrating players (Maradona, Platini) who were in the 80's/90's Italian League, under the assumption that it was the 'hardest' in the world. Funny that that trend of thought though was never valid to Brazilian players who undoubtedly succeeded in the same league at that epoch (Falcão, Zico, Romário, Ronaldo...)

How not to talk of prejudice (or, better, of a little bit of...jealousy)?

[kingkong1]

You got that off a Leeds website. They are going to show some bias.

I'm not saying that J Charlton is crap but it is totally absurd to rate him higher than a guy like Baresi. I wouldn't rate Moore higher than Baresi and Moore is the best CB that England has produced.

By the way, I stated that your opinion was stupid.

That's true. I would have been better off using a word like ludicrous instead of stupid though.Congratulations!...

Sincere apologies are always wellcome :) ...

I shouldn't have posteriorly quoted either the Italian anthem: that was stupid on my part.

I apologize, too!...

Anyway, I'm also terribly sorry if my estimated Jack Charlton...

(him, Baresi, Domingos, as a matter of fact, are all great players and a matter of personal preference)

...served as a 'smoke curtain' to deviate the discussion from the main theme:

'What is our no more than charismatic Platini doing there in the All-Time midfield 11 team?' :(...