Platini Top Ten All-Time?

[kingkong1]

You must have really restraint yourself there. Only 6 Brazilians in the first team, and only 4 in the second team.:cool:
I know: it was'n elegant on my part.

But it's my opinion (which, sorry, is not too far, in the majority of those cases, from the verdict of the most respected critics and experts of the planet).

However, my post is not exactly about THE BEST but about the form by which those 'Ten Best' were chosen in this thread.

First of all, only midfielders and forwards were considered (with the exception of Maldini), as if goalies, defenders and defensive midfielders were second rate players - and that in a Forum with a majority of Europeans ( :confused: ), undisputed masters of defense in football.

Yashin, Banks, Bobby Moore, Jack Charlton, Beckenbauer, Bobby Charlton and even the polivalent Cruyjff are and will ever be their supreme representatives.

But when we see players like Messi, Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten, Zico, Ronaldinho, Gullit, Platini (all great but far from being geniuses) taking the place of most of those legends simply because they played from the midfield on - or, also, because they are more recent, we do feel like 'putting the dots on the i s ".

As far as my Brazilian choices though, with the exception of Domingos da Guia*** (3rd place in 1938 WC), Leônidas (1938 World Cup MVP player), Zizinho (1950 World Cup MVP player), who nobody in this Forum saw playing (I just saw Zizinho on TV in the end of his career in 1956/57), all the others are well known through the media: Didi was the 1958 World Cup MVP (and is simply ignored in this thread) - Carlos Alberto, Djalma Santos and Nilton Santos are undisputably 3 of the 4 best left and right defenders ever - and, frankly, tell me, with whom would you replace them?...

I'd give away Marinho Chagas (a very personal preference that could be replaced by Maldini, for instance), but it's very difficult to go beyond that.

______________________________________________________________________
*** Info on Domingos da Guia (Wikipedia):

Domingos Antônio da Guia (born in Rio de Janeiro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rio_de_Janeiro), November 19 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_19), 1912 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1912) – dead in Rio, May 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_18), 2000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000)), nicknamed the "the Divine Master" was a Brazilian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil) footballer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28soccer%29). He is regarded as one of the greatest players in Flamengo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamengo) and Corinthians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthians) history, as well as the best brazilian defender.
He quickly rose to fame as one of Bangu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangu_Atl%C3%A9tico_Clube)'s key players (central defender) between 1929-1932. Despite the fact Bangu had a history of fielding black players (Francisco Carregal (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Francisco_Carregal&action=edit) was the first in 1905) Domingos witnessed racism in football as he was growing up. Seeing the brutality that some of the black players received is believed to have inspired Domingos's extraordinary ability to dribble with the ball and avoid defenders, a trait which Brazilians would become famous for around the world. After Bangu, Domingos moved to Uruguay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay)'s Nacional de Montevideo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_Nacional_de_Football) for a season, before brief periods at Vasco da Gama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_de_Regatas_Vasco_da_Gama) (Brazil), Boca Juniors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boca_Juniors) (Argentina) and then finding a home at Rio giants Flamengo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clube_de_Regatas_do_Flamengo) (1935-1943). A brief spell at Corinthians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_Club_Corinthians_Paulista) left Domingos to return to his beloved Bangu where he stay until he retired in 1948.
Domingos also enjoyed a successful international career, getting over 30 caps for Brazil. He came to the world's attention in the 1938 FIFA World Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1938_FIFA_World_Cup) finals, where he was the linchpin of Brazil's defence. Domingo's son Ademir da Guia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ademir_da_Guia) also played for Bangu 1959-1961 before becoming at idol at São Paulo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A3o_Paulo)'s Palmeiras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociedade_Esportiva_Palmeiras).
Career Titles*:

Rio Branco Cup: 1931, 1932
Uruguayan League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primera_Divisi%C3%B3n_Uruguaya): 1933
Argentinian League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primera_Divisi%C3%B3n_Argentina): 1935
Rio de Janeiro State League (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campeonato_Carioca): 1934, 1939, 1942, 1943
Roca Cup (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roca_Cup): 1945
Source taken from Sambafoot.com (http://www.sambafoot.com/en/players/222_Domingos.html)

[babaorum]

Which 'respected critics and experts' are you talking about exactly ? I would like to know. Despite your arguments your list of players is way too Brazilian-orientated to be taken seriously. Why should one consider Carlos Alberto, Nilton Santos and Djamal Santos as the only supreme right and left defenders for example ? Great players of course but I know some Italian, German or French defenders who would have something to say about it...

[kingkong1]

Which 'respected critics and experts' are you talking about exactly ? I would like to know. Despite your arguments your list of players is way too Brazilian-orientated to be taken seriously. Why should one consider Carlos Alberto, Nilton Santos and Djalma Santos as the only supreme right and left defenders for example ? Great players of course but I know some Italian, German or French defenders who would have something to say about it...As far as C. Alberto, N. Santos and D. Santos I suppose I'm pretty well defended here: they ARE the best 'left and right defenders' in the opinion of the most internationally 'respected critics', as I had said before.

And that's to be taken seriously.

Platini is there too in the 'overall' list. I disagree: there is no way he could be above Bobby Charlton, Didi, Zizinho, Gérson, Tostão, or even Zico.

The end-result (in spite of the justice about the 3 above mentioned Brz defenders) is still too European-oriented in terms of midfielders.

No wonder: of the 9 polls below, 7 are European-based (2 Brz: Placar & A Tarde).

Anyway I'm pretty well backed with those data:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/wrldallt.html

World All-Time Teams

Placar Magazine (1983) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Puskas

Italian FA (1988) Banks - Leandro Andrade, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Meazza - Garrincha, Pelé, Maradona, Puskas

FIFA World Cup All-Time Team (1993/94) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas

Planete Foot Magazine (1996) Yashin - Baresi, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten - Gerd Müller, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

100 Magnifici (Venerdì Magazine) (1997)[/URL] Yashin - Djalma Santos, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Meazza, Schiaffino - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

FIFA Century Selection (1998) Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

Voetbal International (1999)[/URL] Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard, Paolo Maldini - Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Pelé, Gento

FIFA World Cup Dream Team (2002)[/URL] Yashin - Paolo Maldini, Beckenbauer, Roberto Carlos - Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini - Roberto Baggio, Pelé, Romário

A Tarde Newspaper (2004) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Di Stefano, Pelé, Puskas

"Overall Team" - Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

About this document

Prepared and maintained by Marcelo Leme de Arruda for the Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/../nersssf.html)

Author: Marcelo Leme de Arruda (mlarruda@terra.com.br)
Last updated: 15 May 2004


(C) Copyright Marcelo Leme de Arruda and RSSSF 1999/2004
You are free to copy this document in whole or part provided that proper acknowledgement is given to the author. All rights reserved.

[dor02]

As I stated somewhere in this Forum, my 1st and 2nd best teams of all times would be (distributed in a 4-2-4, to make justice to both defense and attack):

First:

Yashin; Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Domingos Da Guia, Nilton Santos; Didi, Di Stéfano; Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas, Cruyjff***.

***That wasn't Cruyjff's 'position' I know, but who told you he cared for 'positions'? :cool:...

Second:

Banks; Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Jack Charlton, Marinho Chagas; Zizinho, Bobby Charlton; Stanley Matthews, Leônidas da Silva, Eusébio, Maradona.

How terrible not to have, Best, Rivelino, Passarela, Gérson, Jairzinho, Tostão etc among them though...

Feel tempted to choose a third 'best team'! :rolleyes: ...

And you see, I'm being impartial: Zico, Romário & Ronaldo aren't there (nor runner-ups Platini and Van Basten): they'd still have something to learn with those 22...No respect for the Italian players! :mad: To consider J Charlton and Domingos da Guia before Baresi and Maldini is stupid. Da Guia was a great player but was he as good as any of the great Milan duo? No.

[kingkong1]

No respect for the Italian players! :mad: To consider J Charlton and Domingos da Guia before Baresi and Maldini is stupid. Da Guia was a great player but was he as good as any of the great Milan duo? No.(...)Fratelli d'Italia
L'Italia s'è desta
Dell'elmo di Scipio
S'è cinta la testa.(...)

Maldini & Baresi?...

Great players too!....

But, better than Charlton and Da Guia?...

No way, man! :cool: ...

[dor02]

(...)Fratelli d'Italia
L'Italia s'è desta
Dell'elmo di Scipio
S'è cinta la testa.(...)

Maldini & Baresi?...

Great players too!....

But, better than Charlton and Da Guia?...

No way, man! :cool: ...OK, now I can't take you seriously.

[kingkong1]

To consider J Charlton and Domingos da Guia before Baresi and Maldini is stupid.

OK, now I can't take you seriously.Look, if in the first time you address someone you say his opinions are 'stupid', it's just not 'me' or 'now' that you 'don't take seriously'.

You obviously don't take anybody seriously.

Ever.

:cool:

[dor02]

Look, if in the first time you address someone you say his opinions are 'stupid', it's just not 'me' or 'now' that you 'don't take seriously'.

You obviously don't take anybody seriously.

Ever.

:cool:Does the truth hurt? Nobody in their right mind would rate J Charlton or Da Guia higher than Baresi and Maldini. I'm not the only person who rates Baresi and Maldini higher than J Charlton and Da Guia. You can even create a thread to even prove the point.

[comme]

I've got to say Jack Charlton is not widely considered to be among the best centre-backs England has produced, let alone the world.

[dor02]

Exactly. If you really needed to include an Englishman in defence, Moore would be the first choice.

[babaorum]

As far as C. Alberto, N. Santos and D. Santos I suppose I'm pretty well defended here: they ARE the best 'left and right defenders' in the opinion of the most internationally 'respected critics', as I had said before.

And that's to be taken seriously.

Platini is there too in the 'overall' list. I disagree: there is no way he could be above Bobby Charlton, Didi, Zizinho, Gérson, Tostão, or even Zico.

The end-result (in spite of the justice about the 3 above mentioned Brz defenders) is still too European-oriented in terms of midfielders.

No wonder: of the 9 polls below, 7 are European-based (2 Brz: Placar & A Tarde).

Anyway I'm pretty well backed with those data:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/wrldallt.html

World All-Time Teams

Placar Magazine (1983) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Puskas

Italian FA (1988) Banks - Leandro Andrade, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Meazza - Garrincha, Pelé, Maradona, Puskas

FIFA World Cup All-Time Team (1993/94) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas

Planete Foot Magazine (1996) Yashin - Baresi, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten - Gerd Müller, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

100 Magnifici (Venerdì Magazine) (1997)[/URL] Yashin - Djalma Santos, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Meazza, Schiaffino - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

FIFA Century Selection (1998) Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

Voetbal International (1999)[/URL] Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard, Paolo Maldini - Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Pelé, Gento

FIFA World Cup Dream Team (2002)[/URL] Yashin - Paolo Maldini, Beckenbauer, Roberto Carlos - Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini - Roberto Baggio, Pelé, Romário

A Tarde Newspaper (2004) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Di Stefano, Pelé, Puskas

"Overall Team" - Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

About this document

Prepared and maintained by Marcelo Leme de Arruda for the Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/../nersssf.html)

Author: Marcelo Leme de Arruda (mlarruda@terra.com.br)
Last updated: 15 May 2004


(C) Copyright Marcelo Leme de Arruda and RSSSF 1999/2004
You are free to copy this document in whole or part provided that proper acknowledgement is given to the author. All rights reserved.

When most 'international respected critics' pick three Brazilians - ie Djamal Santos, Nilton Santos and Carlos Alberto- in their all-time teams, it can't even be discussed according to you. As if it was an eternal, unquestionable truth.
When most 'international respected critics' pick a non-Brazilian -ie Michel Platini- in their all-time teams you say it's questionable... I'd say you're a bit biased my friend.

[gmonn]

As far as C. Alberto, N. Santos and D. Santos I suppose I'm pretty well defended here: they ARE the best 'left and right defenders' in the opinion of the most internationally 'respected critics', as I had said before.

And that's to be taken seriously.

Platini is there too in the 'overall' list. I disagree: there is no way he could be above Bobby Charlton, Didi, Zizinho, Gérson, Tostão, or even Zico.

The end-result (in spite of the justice about the 3 above mentioned Brz defenders) is still too European-oriented in terms of midfielders.

No wonder: of the 9 polls below, 7 are European-based (2 Brz: Placar & A Tarde).

Anyway I'm pretty well backed with those data:

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/wrldallt.html

World All-Time Teams

Placar Magazine (1983) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Puskas

Italian FA (1988) Banks - Leandro Andrade, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Meazza - Garrincha, Pelé, Maradona, Puskas

FIFA World Cup All-Time Team (1993/94) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Breitner - Cruyff, Bobby Charlton, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas

Planete Foot Magazine (1996) Yashin - Baresi, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Platini, Van Basten - Gerd Müller, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

100 Magnifici (Venerdì Magazine) (1997)[/URL] Yashin - Djalma Santos, Beckenbauer, Paolo Maldini - Cruyff, Meazza, Schiaffino - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

FIFA Century Selection (1998) Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

Voetbal International (1999)[/URL] Yashin - Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Rijkaard, Paolo Maldini - Di Stefano, Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Pelé, Gento

FIFA World Cup Dream Team (2002)[/URL] Yashin - Paolo Maldini, Beckenbauer, Roberto Carlos - Maradona, Zidane, Cruyff, Platini - Roberto Baggio, Pelé, Romário

A Tarde Newspaper (2004) Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Maradona - Garrincha, Di Stefano, Pelé, Puskas

"Overall Team" - Yashin - Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Beckenbauer, Nílton Santos - Cruyff, Platini - Garrincha, Pelé, Di Stefano, Maradona

About this document

Prepared and maintained by Marcelo Leme de Arruda for the Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics Foundation (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/../nersssf.html)

Author: Marcelo Leme de Arruda (mlarruda@terra.com.br)
Last updated: 15 May 2004


(C) Copyright Marcelo Leme de Arruda and RSSSF 1999/2004
You are free to copy this document in whole or part provided that proper acknowledgement is given to the author. All rights reserved.

It's good to see that Platini is not a unanimous top ten, and I'm not out of my mind. Interesting that some of the Italian sources leave him out.
Also he's in less than half of the lists above, and yet he gets into the overall one.
I just don't understand why Zico is not in his place, must be a European thing...

[Real Ray]

This is slighty off topic, but I think it's fair posting in this thread since, people are talking about the rating of players over the history of the game and where we place them among the all-time greats.

I myself think it's very difficult, if possible at all to compare eras that are vastly apart in years. Here's an example I think about where the game is today vs the late 60's, and how one measures a players legacy. Compare Uwe Seeler w/Dennis Bergkamp.

I haven't looked any polls today, but I think most of them would place Seeler above Bergkamp, yes? Seeler is one of the greats in the game. Now looking at what Seeler did the year Bergkamp was born:

Seeler (games/goals)
1969/70 Hamburg SV...................30 / 17 (age 33)

As we all know he played well into his 30's; was on the 1970 WC team.

Bergkamp as well played into his 30's at Arsenal:

Bergkamp (games/goals)
2001-02 Arsenal ………………...33/ 9
2004-05 Arsenal………………... 29/8 (age 35)

But the question I have and where I feel we have to make adjustment for the eras sits is in this stat:

Premiership (Foreign Players In The Top 4 Teams)
76/104- 73%

Bergkamp and players of this era are faced with a far more deeper, wider and talented pool of players they face week in, week out. I think it's fair to say that with Arsenal in the start of the 21st century Bergkamp faced a much steeper challenge to simply keep his place with the Gunners than Seeler did in 1969/70 at Hamburg. And I think this could be applied to other players from these these two and other eras.

This is IMO has to change how we measure the great players of today-I think they are going to win less and have shorter peaks. The player today is subjected to a tougher competition simply to win a place in the top flight XI, and this I think speaks to the quality of recent elite players-especially those who continue to play well between in their late 20s-early 30's.

What it takes to perfom in the latter part of a career today I think is very different than previous eras-even taking into account advances in medicine. The larger pool of players and the wealth of the top clubs to get that talent trumps this IMO.


Just something to throw into the discussion...

[kingkong1]

When most 'international respected critics' pick three Brazilians - ie Djamal Santos, Nilton Santos and Carlos Alberto- in their all-time teams, it can't even be discussed according to you. As if it was an eternal, unquestionable truth.
When most 'international respected critics' pick a non-Brazilian -ie Michel Platini- in their all-time teams you say it's questionable... I'd say you're a bit biased my friend.I might have been, but who in football isn't?...

I cited Carlos Alberto, Djalma Santos and Nilton Santos because I already knew they were the undisputed favourite of most critics - and in that case they are unsuspicious because in their majority were/are Europeans...

However, those are 'defense' players!...

Who guarantees though that those same critics (since 'in their majority were/are Europeans') weren't as biased as (or even more than) me when dealing with the sensitive case of the midfielders?...

Midfielders are the brain of a team, and THAT honour they couldn't give give away that easily to South Americans (Didi, Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Zito, Gérson, Tostão, Rivelino, Zico, most of them recognizedly at least superior to Platini, a few even superior to Cruyjff).

Notice that all SA midfielders were 'pushed' to the forwards sector, and the 'overall' midfielders chosen were - absurdly - simply two...Europeans (Cruyjff and Platini)!...

Meaning: well, you have the feet, we have the brains (typical colonialist European prejudice)!...

SAs are all strikers (read it, 'booters'), we are the playmakers!...

You 'run', I'm 'the quarterback'! :D...

As far as C.A., D.S. and N.S. they (congratulations) were impartial: 'that' they could 'give away'...

But, as far as midfielders! :rolleyes:...

[lanman]

Platini is there too in the 'overall' list. I disagree: there is no way he could be above Bobby Charlton, Didi, Zizinho, Gérson, Tostão, or even Zico.

You simply can't use a set of criteria to support your argument about some players and then disagree with it when it comes to another.

[lanman]

(Didi, Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Zito, Gérson, Tostão, Rivelino, Zico, most of them recognizedly at least superior to Platini, a few even superior to Cruyjff).

Taking out Pele, Di Stefano and Maradona (as being ranked behind these three is hardly a slight on a player), can you provide any evidence to prove that "most of them recognizedly at least superior to Platini"? After all, I don't see a single one of them in the RSSSF link you provided.

IFFHS, France Football, Guerin Sportivo and Placar all ranked Platini above any of those you listed bar Pele, Maradona and Di Stefano.

[kingkong1]

You simply can't use a set of criteria to support your argument about some players and then disagree with it when it comes to another.I didn't do that, I just partially disagreed (and I have all the intellectual right to do it) with the criterion used towards midfielders; I'm very conscious of the fact that that can sound 'suspicious' on my part, BUT I DID THAT PRESENTING MY ARGUMENTS (it's up to you to judge if I am right or not, and, MAINLY, to present yours).

Read well my 2 last posts.As far as C. Alberto, N. Santos and D. Santos I suppose I'm pretty well defended here: they ARE the best 'left and right defenders' in the opinion of the most internationally 'respected critics', as I had said before.

And that's to be taken seriously.

Platini is there too in the 'overall' list. I disagree: there is no way he could be above Bobby Charlton, Didi, Zizinho, Gérson, Tostão, or even Zico.
The end-result (in spite of the justice about the 3 above mentioned Brz defenders) is still too European-oriented in terms of midfielders.

No wonder: of the 9 polls below, 7 are European-based (2 Brz): Placar & A Tarde.I might have been (biased), but who in football isn't?...

I cited Carlos Alberto, Djalma Santos and Nilton Santos because I already knew they were the undisputed favourite of most critics - and in that case they are unsuspicious because in their majority were/are Europeans...

However, those are 'defense' players!...

Who guarantees though that those same critics (since 'in their majority were/are Europeans') weren't as biased as (or even more than) me when dealing with the sensitive case of the midfielders?...

Midfielders are the brain of a team, and THAT honour they couldn't give give away that easily to South Americans (Didi, Pelé, Di Stéfano, Maradona, Zito, Gérson, Tostão, Rivelino, Zico, most of them recognizedly at least superior to Platini, a few even superior to Cruyjff).

Notice that all SA midfielders were 'pushed' to the forwards sector, and the 'overall' midfielders chosen were - absurdly - simply two...Europeans (Cruyjff and Platini)!...

Meaning: well, you have the feet, we have the brains (typical neo-colonialist European prejudice)!...

SAs are all strikers (read it, 'booters'), Europeans are the playmakers!...

You 'run', I'm 'the quarterback'! :D...

[nicephoras]

I think this list is definitive when I like it, I think this list is wrong when I don't. Sorry, that's a no go. And in my opinion Platini is either top 10 or on the verge (and better than Zidane) to boot.

What is Jack Charlton doing in this discussion??

[lanman]

What is Jack Charlton doing in this discussion??

He would struggle to make the top 10 of English centre backs, let alone an all time team.

[lanman]

and, MAINLY, to present yours

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13210390&postcount=32