Platini Top Ten All-Time?

[babaorum]

I think that a WC winning in 82 or 86 is actually the only thing that prevents Platini (and Zico but it's another debate) from being named in the same breath as Di Stefano, Cruyff and Maradona in a top 5 all-time list.

Herr... I meant not winning a WC in 82 or 86 is actually the only argument for not considering Platini in the same league as the players named above... Sorry.

[Glavisted Big Soccer]

Herr... I meant not winning a WC in 82 or 86 is actually the only argument for not considering Platini in the same league as the players named above... Sorry.
I think would be a mistake because we're talking about "players" individually, and the World Cups aren't won by one of them, are won by a team.

[babaorum]

I think would be a mistake because we're talking about "players" individually, and the World Cups aren't won by one of them, are won by a team.

You're right. I should have been more precise - a French WC winning combined with a great performance from Platini (Euro84 like) would have elevated his status. He could have done it in 86 but sadly for him and for France he was far from being at his best due to injury.

[gmonn]

Yes Ronaldinho has more tricks but it's not enough... and he's certainly not a better free-kick taker either.

You and Mr. lol aren't following Ronaldinho, or his free kicks. Remember the long, long chip over Seaman in the WC? Could Platini do that? I really doubt he ever did. There's this idea that Ronaldinho is all about tricks, because he's so used to winning that it isn't enough for him. His club and national teams will beat your club and national teams, and there's a very good chance that he will be the reason why. There is a question about whether he has the drive and insatiable desire of a great, which still has to be settled. But it's not about tricks. If he never did a trick, the man's touch, vision, power and quickness of thought are simply genius. At his worst he's still scoring goals. I watched Platini in the 80's, when he wasn't as good as Zico or others, not as good as Ronaldo, not as good as Ronaldinho. Not as good as Messi. They're not all playing the same position, but Platini is more easily replaced.

[lanman]

Not as good as Messi.

You can make an argument for the other players you mention, but let's at least see Messi play a full league season before we compare him with anyone like Platini.

[dor02]

You and Mr. lol aren't following Ronaldinho, or his free kicks. Remember the long, long chip over Seaman in the WC? Could Platini do that? I really doubt he ever did.Nayim managed to lob Seaman in the 1995 Cup Winners' Cup Final. Is he Top 10 material? He's not even Top 500 in my list. You can't judge a player on those kind of lobs. They're spectacular but lobs like that are usually down to chance.

[gmonn]

Nayim managed to lob Seaman in the 1995 Cup Winners' Cup Final. Is he Top 10 material? He's not even Top 500 in my list. You can't judge a player on those kind of lobs. They're spectacular but lobs like that are usually down to chance.
Great goal, thanks for mentioning that. But Ronaldinho's was from a free-kick!!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ExUX7MBk5UM

And no, that alone doesn't qualify you. This was just comparing Ronaldinho to Platini on free-kicks. Ronaldinho scores on free-kicks on a regular basis, and this was an example of a spectacular one, in WC elimination. Having Seaman in goal obviously helps, but to hit that one just right?

[babaorum]

You and Mr. lol aren't following Ronaldinho, or his free kicks. Remember the long, long chip over Seaman in the WC? Could Platini do that? I really doubt he ever did. There's this idea that Ronaldinho is all about tricks, because he's so used to winning that it isn't enough for him. His club and national teams will beat your club and national teams, and there's a very good chance that he will be the reason why. There is a question about whether he has the drive and insatiable desire of a great, which still has to be settled. But it's not about tricks. If he never did a trick, the man's touch, vision, power and quickness of thought are simply genius. At his worst he's still scoring goals. I watched Platini in the 80's, when he wasn't as good as Zico or others, not as good as Ronaldo, not as good as Ronaldinho. Not as good as Messi. They're not all playing the same position, but Platini is more easily replaced.

You still have to convince me why I should consider Ronaldinho as greater than Platini. Is he a better dribbler ? Yes he is. Does he have a better ball-control ? Yes he does. Is he quicker ? Yes he is. But I already knew all that, thanks. But at the end of the day, is he simply better[I] than Platini ? Does he have a greater influence on the field ? The answer is clear : no (or not yet). Despite being slower, Platini's excellent technique (though rather unspectacular compared to Ronaldinho's one, we'll agree on that) and above all supra-human vision allows him to : 1) surpass Ronaldinho at playmaking. There's no debate here. 2) score more goals than him despite being a midfielder.
I will accept the comparison when Ronaldinho [I]consistently plays at the level Platini reached between 1982 and 1985 with Juve and national team. Until he shows that the only player I accept Platini to be compared in your list is Zico.
As for the free-kicking debate, if you watched enough Platini's games you should know he's one of the best ever in that area. He scored dozens of them in his carreer and twelve for national team alone (including free-kicks directly qualifying France for WC78, WC82 and WC86... and against Spain in EC84 final). So I really can't see how Ronaldinho could be better than him in that aspect either.

[gmonn]

Ronaldinho already played at that level consistently for a few years. For the past year he's come down from that level, while still scoring and assisting with the best (and pouring in the free kicks). His vision is also superlative. For me it comes down to, who would you rather have in their prime? Personally, Ronaldinho easily. There's other 10s. When we compare players from different eras, the issues raised in the thread "Is football in terminal decline" also come into play.

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618952

[Excape Goat]

I think would be a mistake because we're talking about "players" individually, and the World Cups aren't won by one of them, are won by a team.

While it is true that the world cups are won by teams, I also believe that great players would or should rise up on the bigger stage. Platini did that with Euro 1984. Ronaldinho has all the talents, but he needs to rise up on the bigger stage.

[Bauser]

Based solely on individual ballskills I wouldn't rate Platini as a top 10 player, but he was so much more than just tricks and that makes him worthy of such high ranking anyway in my opinion. Platini was an effective footballer and strong team leader, often sitting deep to come forward and score. For a few years between the two World Cups in the 1980s he was basically ruling the world of football - certainly the European scene.

Topscorer in Serie A three times from a midfield position. His set-piece strength is already mentioned, but he was also probably the best executer of long passes with precision that I've ever seen. He often sent Boniek through with those in the Juve-era. His aerial game was underrated too. I think one could make a very impressive collage of Platini goals and assists if the right footage was found.

Juventus and France experienced a collapse in results once Platini retired. Juventus league positions first four seasons after Platini left: 6, 4, 4, 7. And France of course didn't qualify for another tournament until Euro 92 - World Cup first in 1998.

I think Platini's retirement has a lot to do with the sudden weak results of his former teams.

[lanman]

Topscorer in Serie A three times from a midfield position.

Three times in a row is a feat only achieved by one other player in the history of Italian football, and that was over 50 years ago. For any player that is a remarkable achievment, even more so for a midfielder.

I'm not sure I could put Platini in my top ten, but he wouldn't be far off.

[babaorum]

Based solely on individual ballskills I wouldn't rate Platini as a top 10 player, but he was so much more than just tricks and that makes him worthy of such high ranking anyway in my opinion. Platini was an effective footballer and strong team leader, often sitting deep to come forward and score. For a few years between the two World Cups in the 1980s he was basically ruling the world of football - certainly the European scene.

Topscorer in Serie A three times from a midfield position. His set-piece strength is already mentioned, but he was also probably the best executer of long passes with precision that I've ever seen. He often sent Boniek through with those in the Juve-era. His aerial game was underrated too. I think one could make a very impressive collage of Platini goals and assists if the right footage was found.

Juventus and France experienced a collapse in results once Platini retired. Juventus league positions first four seasons after Platini left: 6, 4, 4, 7. And France of course didn't qualify for another tournament until Euro 92 - World Cup first in 1998.

I think Platini's retirement has a lot to do with the sudden weak results of his former teams.

You basically summed up my view. You are absolutely right about his ability to deliver ultra-precise long passes from a deep position. Though I think some players were (marginally) better at close, pint-point passing (Zico, Maradona and maybe even Ronaldinho) I think no one had a better long range passing than him. Thus he's one of the best ever at delivering assists. He has 20 assists for France alone (in 72 caps) which is remarkable considering that France had basically no striker back then (Stopyra...) and that Platini was also France's main goalscorer. Only Zidane has more assists (23 I think) but he executed them in more caps (around 100) and with world class strikers playing in front of him (Henry, Trezeguet...).

Some footage of Platini : (goals and assists)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWJDndQUHWI

Greatest goal ever (well... almost :) ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mmdJRODm-Q

[Bauser]

He has 20 assists for France alone (in 72 caps)

That's impressive. Where did you find that information?

[babaorum]

That's impressive. Where did you find that information?

On French TV during the game Zidane exceeded that record 2 or 3 years ago. It's almost impossible to find stats about goal assists on the net. It's weird.

[lanman]

It's almost impossible to find stats about goal assists on the net. It's weird.

Not really. They've never been an officially recorded statistic and can only be worked out by looking back through games played.

[FlashMan]

France actually won 2-0 vs Italy in '86. Platini had a very good game, scoring the first goal.


thank u for pointing this out to me. i've spent almost the last 20 years believing in my head it was a 0-0 draw. not sure why, but now i stand corrected.

and what a goal by Platini. i can see it as if it was yesterday.... :o

[zenden]

You basically summed up my view. You are absolutely right about his ability to deliver ultra-precise long passes from a deep position. Though I think some players were (marginally) better at close, pint-point passing (Zico, Maradona and maybe even Ronaldinho) I think no one had a better long range passing than him. Thus he's one of the best ever at delivering assists. He has 20 assists for France alone (in 72 caps) which is remarkable considering that France had basically no striker back then (Stopyra...) and that Platini was also France's main goalscorer. Only Zidane has more assists (23 I think) but he executed them in more caps (around 100) and with world class strikers playing in front of him (Henry, Trezeguet...).

Some footage of Platini : (goals and assists)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWJDndQUHWI

Greatest goal ever (well... almost :) ) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mmdJRODm-Q

1:08-1:14 is ********ing amazing.

[kingkong1]

He had a great Euro tournament and that is the main reason people rank him so high. Look at Zico who played in Serie A at the same time (below). I've left off a lot for Zico, for instance Flamengo heroics, at home and internationally, and leading one of the most memorable teams in history, Brazil '82. And this is just numbers, having watched them both Zico was much better at free kicks (probably the best of all time at free kicks), a passing magician who probably edged Platini, a finisher at least on Platini's level, a much better dribbler, and more athletic than Platini.

"In the 1983-84 Italian League season, Zico scored 19 goals - one less than the championship top scorer Platini, having played 6 matches less than the French footballer."

1983-85 Udinese 56 goals in 79 games 0.69
1983 Player of the Year - World Soccer Magazine (England)
1984 Second highest scorer of the Italian League - 19 goals (Platini had 20, Zico played 6 less games.)
1984 Italian League Player of the Year
Brazil National Team: 66 goals in 88 games 0.75

Platini among The Ten? Wanting a job at Uefa? (:p kd)...

I wouldn't put Zico among them either though.

However he was superior to Platini: let's remember that besides Zico having a better goal average than Platini in that 83-84 season, while the latter played for powerhouse Juventus, the former for modest Udinese; besides - although I recognize that Platini was exceptional - Zico playing for Flamengo was simply the best player of his era: 78-84, and a close 3rd best among the players who started playing after 1970 (for me the 1st was Cruyjff, the 2nd best Maradona).

3 Flamengo geniuses instead of Zico though for sure would have to be in the list: Leônidas da Silva, Zizinho and Domingos da Guia.

The thing is that a "The Best Ten...' concept doesn't make justice to the geniuses of football (not that many, but not so few either).

We'd have to have at least 22 players, distributed in 2 complete teams, 1st and 2nd team (with goalies, defenders, defensive midfielders) to include players, for instance, like Best, Eusébio, Matthews, Banks, Gérson, Charlton, Rivelino, Moore, and in my opinion even Maradona (a 2nd best team player for me, under that concept).

As I stated somewhere in this Forum, my 1st and 2nd best teams of all times would be (distributed in a 4-2-4, to make justice to both defense and attack):

First:

Yashin; Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Domingos Da Guia, Nilton Santos; Didi, Di Stéfano; Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas, Cruyjff***.

***That wasn't Cruyjff's 'position' I know, but who told you he cared for 'positions'? :cool:...

Second:

Banks; Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Jack Charlton, Marinho Chagas; Zizinho, Bobby Charlton; Stanley Matthews, Leônidas da Silva, Eusébio, Maradona.

How terrible not to have, Best, Rivelino, Passarela, Gérson, Jairzinho, Tostão etc among them though...

Feel tempted to choose a third 'best team'! :rolleyes: ...

And you see, I'm being impartial: Zico, Romário & Ronaldo aren't there (nor runner-ups Platini and Van Basten): they'd still have something to learn with those 22...

[Gregoriak]

First:

Yashin; Carlos Alberto, Beckenbauer, Domingos Da Guia, Nilton Santos; Didi, Di Stéfano; Garrincha, Pelé, Puskas, Cruyjff***.

***That wasn't Cruyjff's 'position' I know, but who told you he cared for 'positions'? :cool:...

Second:

Banks; Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Jack Charlton, Marinho Chagas; Zizinho, Bobby Charlton; Stanley Matthews, Leônidas da Silva, Eusébio, Maradona.

How terrible not to have, Best, Rivelino, Passarela, Gérson, Jairzinho, Tostão etc among them though...

Feel tempted to choose a third 'best team'! :rolleyes: ...

And you see, I'm being impartial: Zico, Romário & Ronaldo aren't there (nor runner-ups Platini and Van Basten): they'd still have something to learn with those 22...

You must have really restraint yourself there. Only 6 Brazilians in the first team, and only 4 in the second team.