And eight becomes four... [R for the dimwits]

[Mr. Warmth]

So, Chicago & Kansas City sent the two "best" teams in MLS to an early tee time? Imagine my surprise at calls for changes to the playoffs that add even more advantage to the higher seeds getting the second leg at home.

Oh sure, it doesn't seem like much of an advantage to DC and Chivas right now, but 90% of any advantageous situation is actually taking said situation and making it your own and using it to your advantage.

So, with that being said...





























http://bp1.blogger.com/_yxROJtWD0Sg/Ry8wA-hdzwI/AAAAAAAAAHk/Ov9eQoVCL0c/s400/STorBust.jpg (http://bp1.blogger.com/_yxROJtWD0Sg/Ry8wA-hdzwI/AAAAAAAAAHk/Ov9eQoVCL0c/s1600-h/STorBust.jpg)



Can you ladies quit crying like a bunch of jilted prom dates? God, just shut up, you crybabies. It's the same thing every time a higher seed either forgets that there is a post season or they've peaked and are limping into the post season on tired and injured legs and praying that their goal scorers don't hit a slump.

Honestly, I can't figure out why MLS playoff upsets piss so many people off. For a bunch of fans that supposedly live for the David v. Goliath drama of a USL team knocking off an MLS team or some 2nd Division team strolling into Old Trafford and knocking off Sir Alex's high priced 2nd or 3rd XI, what pisses them off so much about a #8 seed taking down the #1. Look, I know it hurts to have your team flop out of the playoffs, but it's not a reason to slit your collective wrists unless someone changes the playoff format to make it nearly impossible for a #1 seed to get beat out in a 2 leg, total goals playoff. I mean, if the #1 see can't manage that, are they really the best team? How can MLS possibly survive if higher seeds don't always advance?

Stadiums where individual teams own the facility, or are the primary tenant with schedule and revenue stream control? A widening league footprint in prime TV markets with ownership willing to build stadia and absorb operating losses as the viewership for soccer as a spectator sport slowly but methodically grows? Who needs all that? The league is obviously doomed if we don't immediately copy the league formats of every other soccer league in the world... except for the leagues that have playoffs, ignore them.

I haven't been bothered enough to check the regular season and play-off attendance arms races, but I'm pretty sure that people haven't been staying away in droves because of the league format or the chance that their team will flame out to a lower seed after giving up points and goals on the road. If that's you, you need to stop complaining about the soccer mom and kiddie demographics too.

Oh sure, some of you wish, about 5 minutes after the whistle, that we had a single table - home & home league, with the total points winner getting MLS Cup and the lowest team getting relegated to the USL. Of course, there is no relationship between the leagues currently and with this years 13 team league, your 24 game season would have been over sometime around September 12. That would mean it was over for most teams around July 4th and I'm sure that having over half the league having nothing to play for for two months wouldn't affect stadium attendance or TV ratings at all.

And if you can't get the Holy Grail of the Single Table League, you'll settle for the Mexican league playoff variant that any draws lead to the higher (and usually richer and better supported and bigger viewership) seed automatically advancing. You sort of want that I guess when the whole league is practically owned by TV networks and they need the money to produce the next round of telenovelas. Nothing like deciding the champion based on jersey sales and attendance. Say, I guess we could bring back the Giants Cup? No?

Jeez, what's it going to take you guys to make you happy? Maybe we chould just give every team a league participation trophy that says "MLS Champs" on it like they do for the kids at YMCA.


Playoff Soccer

Fire 2 - 2 DC
Chicago advances on aggregate 3-2

Thursday's game is exactly what MLS needed on nationwide broadcast, a loud stadium with lots of fan action in front of the camera. Not behind the goals, not on the camera side, but in full view of the camera every time the ball made it up that side of the field. DC fans brought the noise, other than the 40 minute lull after goals by Chad Barrett and Chris Rolfe nearly crushed all hope for DC advancing to another MLS Cup. But hey, what do DC fans expect, playing Chicago in a playoff game. However DC did manage to finall score on Chicago in a playoff off game after 16,000 or so scoreless minutes after Clyde Simms rocketed a skipper past Matt Pickens and Christian Gomez finally started thinking abotu the game he was supposed to be playing in and not going to Qatar or some other cash out league? BTW, does the Qatari league have single table, play offs, or the always popular "the emir's favorite team always wins the league" format?

Sadly for DC fans, Gomez' apparent late game winner that would have forced a 30 minute extra time was correctly judged to be greatly assisted by his handling of the ball which fortuitously fell to his feet allowing him to score. The call back gave Chicago the win and caused a total meltdown of DC's fan including "Pirate Santa" who was caught on ESPN's camera in a blind, drunken rage tearing the middle finger off his glove with his teeth so that the Chicago players and referes could get a better look at his extended middle finger. You go "Raging Pirate Santa"!


FC Dallas 1 - Dynamo Houston 2 - (OT-FCD 0 - Houston 2)
Houston advances 4-2 on aggregate

Friday's game had to be FC Dallas' Halloween nightmare showing up a couple of days late as the Dynamo clad in their Great Pumpkin Orange kits stormed back to draw level on aggregate in regular time with a 2-1 win, then pull a good old fashioned Texas Chainsaw Massacre on FC Dallas' aspirations to not repeat their annual playoff meltdown, but hey, why change now? Seriously, is there any Western Conference team that Dallas hasn't choked on, other than RSL? And that probably only because RSL hasn't stumbled into the playoffs. I guess probably Chivas too. But hey, you've still got the Brimstone Cup to keep you happy, right?


Revs 1-0 RedBulls
Revs advance 1-0 on aggregate.

Thanks for the fumble John Conway. Way to give Twellman the easiest goal of his MLS Playoffs career. Lets face it, we knew RedBull would find a way to murder themselves against the weakest Revs team of the past few years. First, Waterbong is out and done, the Reyna (shockingly and uncharacteristically) pulls up lame and then Angel gets knocked stupid by Jay Heaps knee and Arena fiddles while Rome burns and takes an eternity to get a sub on and RedBulls give up a goal while down a man.

If there's any consolation for CFKAMetrofans, it's that the Revs didn't win this game as much as it was lost by their arrogant and slow to adapt to change coaah or Director Technico or Director of Football or whatever Arena's title is along with the over priced keeper he brought in and his special little perpetually injured holding mid that he thinks is a 10 Shirt


KC 0 - 0 Chivas USA
KC Advances 1-0 on aggregate.

Nothing I could right can top this game report by Dan Loney
CUSA-KC recap, play-by-play (http://topdrawersoccer.com/loney/?p=435)

November 3rd, 2007 This match report might seem a little unorthodox, but I think I captured the spirit of it.
Read the rest of this entry » (http://topdrawersoccer.com/loney/?p=435#more-435)

Simple and to the point. Without Razov and a fully functional Galindo, Chivas' all out offense ground to halt like Panzers on the Russian front and their rare attacks found nothing but woodwork. But hey, you slapped LA around in the SuperClassico and some of your fans fought some of their fans, so everything is OK.

Bonus for LA, someone actually paid you to take Yallop off your hands. Now if you can just arrange for Alexi to take up teaching at the Ringling Brothers Clown College, you might have a chance at a great season, provided Pete Vagenas is sent off to the USL.


Conference Finals

East - Chicago at New England.

Even with it's anemic offense all season, Chicago managed to win the 3 game series between the two teams and with the two extra days of rest, should not have any injury or health issues to worry about. The Revs, once challenging for the Supporter's Shield and it's associated curse only managed to win 2 of their final 7 games with the wins coming against the tailspinning FC Dallas and annual late season mediocrity of the Colorado Rapids. The longer the game goes, scoreless, the more it benefits the Revs. Chicago needs to score late in the first half or early in the second and hope El Professor waits until at least the 80th minute to pull his offense and head down into the bunker, otherwise, even as pathetic as the scoring was in the RedBull series, they'll manage to draw level and got to extra time oan/or PK's if needed.

Prediction: Fire 1 - 0 Revs on a 65th minute Blanco FK.


West - Wizards at Dynamo Houston

Trust me when I say that no one wants to see Houston in MLS Cup again. Team don't because they're getting healthy and Stuart Holden can score from anywhere. And also because their fans are rapidly approaching the event horizon of Annoying that only San Jose fans have managed to achieve. If Butterfingers Hartman can manage to turn himself into El Gato for one more game, the Wizards might get lucky if EJ manages to wants to try and score get himself to Europe. Otherwise, if Houston scores 1, they'll eventually score 5 before the bleeding is halted by a merciful stun hammer to the Wizards head.

Prediction: Houston 3 - 0 Wizards

EDIT - Steven Goff is reporting that Arena has been sacked.

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/soccerinsider/2007/11/breaking_news_arena_fired.html

I said sacked so the Single Table people would be happy because that's all Britishy and stuff.

[Geneva]

Simple and to the point. Without Razov and a fully functional Galindo, Chivas' all out offense ground to halt like Panzers on the Russian front and their rare attacks found nothing but woodwork. But hey, you slapped LA around in the SuperClassico and some of your fans fought some of their fans, so everything is OK. Plus someone actually paid you to take Yallop off your hands. Now if you can just arrange for Alexi to take up teaching at the Ringling Brothers Clown College, you might have a chance at a great season, provided Pete Vagenas is sent off to the USL.Was this making the point that those two teams in LA are interchangeable?

As for the rest of the post, I must say it pretty much sums up the past weekend, as I saw it.

[Mr. Warmth]

Missed a line - corrected - Thanks

[santeroatomico]

No mention of the 30K fans at Roberstson Stadium on Friday. come on.
You call us annoying. I think you are jelous ;)

[Mr. Warmth]

No mention of the 30K fans at Roberstson Stadium on Friday. come on.
You call us annoying. I think you are jelous ;)


Keep thinking that if it's what you need to help you sleep at night.

[Mr. Warmth]

Update on Arena -

Michael Lewis and other reporting that Arena either resigned or that the parties mutually agreed to the severance. Which probably means they offered to pay some remainder of his contract in exchange for him getting to resign.

[uniteo]

While I realize you think you know everything, any chance the people complaining about the current playoff system have a bigger problem with stats like 3 goals in the first 4 games, or only 2 of 8 games with more thna 1 combined goal?

Now go ahead and go back to building up and knocking down straw men.

[Mr. Warmth]

While I realize you think you know everything,

I've never claimed such...

any chance the people complaining about the current playoff system have a bigger problem with stats like 3 goals in the first 4 games, or only 2 of 8 games with more thna 1 combined goal?

If so, then maybe they should structure their arguments as such and take a look at the injuries suffered by the attacking players of the teams that were so unceremoniously ejected instead of bitching about the playoff format that everyone agreed to in the offseason.

Emilio - less than 100%
Jaime - less than 100%
Razov - Out
Galindo - less than 100%

Now with Angel and Altidore not striking fear in anyone's heart for the last 4-5 weeks and Christian Gomez being mediocre for the last month, you have what, only two of the top 10 goal scorers left in the playoffs, and only had 8 of them there to begin with. Any change in the playoff format is negligible at this point because those guys weren't scoring goals anyway.

Now go ahead and go back to building up and knocking down straw men.

Call back when you can manage to make an argument that doesn't sound like sour grapes because your team ran out of gas and had been relying on an over the hill forward that wouldn't have set the all time goals record if he hadn't been handed half a dozen PK opportunities that he didn't earn.

[Eric B]

http://www.oyez.org/tour/jps-room/jps_game_three_image/crockwell.jpg

[DoctorD]

You are dead on with your defence of the playoffs. If single table is so good, why do they need Champions League, UEFA Cup, the NIT, the various national cups, the Pabst Blue Ribbon Cup, and the threat of relegation to keep it interesting?

[chicago millonario]

I "think" what most people are upset with is not the upset, but the fact that it all comes down to too many teams making the playoffs.

The MLS regular season decides which teams DON'T make the postseason then which ones do. Upsets happen all the time in the NFL and MLB, but it is much more difficult to qualify for playoff spots in those leagues. For the team in MLB to qualify for the last Wild Card spot is infinitely more difficult then the Fire getting hot late in the season for the 8th spot.

That would mean it was over for most teams around July 4th and I'm sure that having over half the league having nothing to play for for two months wouldn't affect stadium attendance or TV ratings at all.

This is by far the STUPIDEST excuse that MLS fans have in favor of so many teams making the playoffs. You're arguing that mediocre teams should be given a shot to make the playoffs just to make the season more interesting to the fans? What a bunch of bollocks. If teams suck then they shouldn't be awarded jack; if fans lose interest than too bad, the team should get better. Or they should get new fans.

You should really calm down. If people are posting threads about changes to the playoffs, it's a sign that people want the league to improve and would watch it if it were more competitive (just like those who said they would come out if bigger stars played in MLS, and this year they have.) When guys like you get all hyper-sensitive about league criticisms, you sound sound like a bunch of cry-babies yourselves. Chill out.

[GreG36]

Whats better is, DC fans wouldnt be crying about the playoff system if they would have beat the Fire...

The #1 team doesnt always win. Period.

[Mr. Warmth]

I "think" what most people are upset with is not the upset, but the fact that it all comes down to too many teams making the playoffs.

Again, if that's the case, then they need to start arguing for a 6 team playoff with the top conference team getting a bye. Though I suppose much of that arguing at this point related to losing to a 7/8 seed. That's got to be pretty embarrassing.

The MLS regular season decides which teams DON'T make the postseason then which ones do. Upsets happen all the time in the NFL and MLB, but it is much more difficult to qualify for playoff spots in those leagues.

Maybe because there are more teams, less salary restrictions and less players available.

For the team in MLB to qualify for the last Wild Card spot is infinitely more difficult then the Fire getting hot late in the season for the 8th spot.

By "getting hot late in the season", you mean "halfway through the season by removing a stagnant coach & replacing him with a better coach, adding better players and waiving underperforming players from the roster"?

Chicago was arguably the worst team in the league and they took the steps to reverse that course. They didn't just "get hot" they fixed the problems they had while there was still time to qualify for the playoffs.


This is by far the STUPIDEST excuse that MLS fans have in favor of so many teams making the playoffs. You're arguing that mediocre teams should be given a shot to make the playoffs just to make the season more interesting to the fans?

No, I'm not arguing that. That's just a pleasant side effect. Please try to keep up. Though, if fans aren't interested, they aren't going to games and they aren't watching on TV which means sponsors aren't advertising and the league is folding.

What I am arguing is that this league is TOO DAMNED SMALL to be set up with a home and home single division that everyone seems think will suddenly make the game so much more popular. There aren't 20,000 fans in every MLS market that are holding off on buying season tickets until MLS conforms to the league system used in most of the world's leagues, so there's no point in really catering to a phantom fan base so that a minority of "purists" can feel all good about world wide conformity.

Adding to that, there is no reason to remove games from the playoffs, particularly when the league is in growth mode. Less games reduces your opportunity to grow not only existing the fanbase, but kills your ability to develop new ones nationwide or in specific markets.

What a bunch of bollocks. If teams suck then they shouldn't be awarded jack; if fans lose interest than too bad, the team should get better. Or they should get new fans.

No one is awarding the lower seed anything. The higher seeds are being awarded the opportunity to play teams that, on paper, are not as good as them, based on their play throughout the season. They're not getting stuck in with a pot draw where two great teams are being pitted off first. They're being awarded to opportunity to host the 2nd leg of the series at their stadium with the full support of their fans. What's the old adage, draw on the road and win at home? If they can't manage that, then maybe they aren't as good as their record suggested

You should really calm down.

You should find a California wildfire and take a hike through it.

If people are posting threads about changes to the playoffs, it's a sign that people want the league to improve and would watch it if it were more competitive

Wait, so the league is supposed to be more competitive if the playoffs are rigged so that there is a lesser chance that higher seeds can or will be upset? I'm not following your math. Maybe it's your Asperger Syndrome (http://www.aspergers.com/aspcrit.htm) acting up? It seems to be a pretty common trait among fans that can't fathom the fact that soccer just isn't as popular in the US as it is in rest of the world, but seem to fixate on the belief that copying various systems from those leagues would translate into instant popularity, particularly systems that would functionally eliminate most competition between most of the clubs in this league.

(just like those who said they would come out if bigger stars played in MLS, and this year they have.)

MLS has brought in big stars before, to little attendance effect. The difference this time is which stars they chose to bring and at what points they are in their particular careers.

When guys like you get all hyper-sensitive about league criticisms, you sound sound like a bunch of cry-babies yourselves. Chill out.

Since this is the hallowed ground of the front page, I have less leeway in telling you what I think about your opinion, but suffice to say, people on my side of the argument are hardly the hypersensitive ones since we're not the ones starting dozens of threads when our limping teams flame out of the playoffs and can realize that if our team has been in the tank for the better part of a month or half our offense is injured, then we'd better not be surprised if our team gets it's collective ass handed to it for coasting or not having any depth.

The only crybabies are the same ignorant, petulant whiners that bitch and moan because MLS doesn't have the same league format as "England" or any other league, ignoring critical facts as to why we don't or can't do things "just like the rest of the world", in the vain belief that the reason people in those god-forsaken shitholes watch soccer with a religious fervor is how the championship of the leagues is awarded.

Now feel free to chug down your evening ale with a chaser of Drano.

[bigdoug]

Here's an idea:

6 teams in the playoffs
Top two teams with byes
Bottom four teams play each other on Wed/Thursday
Winners play two top teams on the road with three days rest

That would give the top two finishers a good week off (not too long, not too short) and a real home field advantage.

As opposed to say, oh, what happened this year when the team that finishing first and had to play the seventh ranked team (not the eight) in a mid-week game on the road.

Just an idea.

[autogolazzo]

Playoffs are essential in all American sports in my opinion. Having the reegular season determine a champion would make about as much sense here as... well...promotion/relegation.

DC United definitely got what they deserved: In almost every crucial elimination series this year (US Open Cup, Superliga, CCC, MLS Cup playoffs) they lost on aggregate. They didn't really deserve any better than what they got.

That stated...

The MLS playoffs PENALIZE the team with the best record: Because DC United had the best record in MLS, they were forced to play the first match of a home and home series on the road, which is a huge disadvantage.

No crying here. As a DC fan I thought we deserved to lose.

But I do think that you have to give the team with the best record some advantage. The season is long as hell. It has to mean SOMETHING doesn't it?

Quick fix: swap the home and home order and give the team with the best record the first home match.

Better fix: a tie in the aggregate means that the team with the better regular season record goes through (as is done in the Mexican league).

[GreG36]

Better fix: a tie in the aggregate means that the team with the better regular season record goes through (as is done in the Mexican league).

Your the first DC fan Ive seen say that about losing. Thank you. At least you didnt blame the refs...Or the situation... Or the playoff system.

As far as the fix, the only problem with that, is most Americans have a big enough problem with ties anyway. They hate to see games end in ties. And allowing a team to go through, even on a tie, would not be a popular decision. They want to see a game played to the end, until a winner is decided.

[autogolazzo]

Your the first DC fan Ive seen say that about losing. Thank you. At least you didnt blame the refs...Or the situation... Or the playoff system.

As far as the fix, the only problem with that, is most Americans have a big enough problem with ties anyway. They hate to see games end in ties. And allowing a team to go through, even on a tie, would not be a popular decision. They want to see a game played to the end, until a winner is decided.

That is why I proposed the "quick fix." of changing the order of the home and home series. I believe that, right now, playing on the road first is a far bigger disadvantage than having to play a mini-game on the road.

Regarding American sports fans reactions to ties: perhaps you are right. However, that is what the league said about ties in regular season matches. Turned out they were wrong. Americans are handling ties just fine.

[Mr. Warmth]

Here's an idea:

6 teams in the playoffs
Top two teams with byes
Bottom four teams play each other on Wed/Thursday
Winners play two top teams on the road with three days rest

That would give the top two finishers a good week off (not too long, not too short) and a real home field advantage.

Fine. Peck that out in an e-mail to Garber and all the GM's and see what they think. You might get a response telling you why they chose to remain with eight, or more likely ignore your stupid, but very valid and well thought out idea.

As opposed to say, oh, what happened this year when the team that finishing first and had to play the seventh ranked team (not the eight) in a mid-week game on the road.

Do you really think who DC was playing mattered? To a great degree, I don't, other than a slight psychological edge Chicago might have had since it took 9000 or so playoff minutes DC to score a post-season goal on Chicago. DC came into the playoffs limping after some really, really poor play and carrying some pretty critical injuries. Eddie Johnson could have made it really embarrassing





The MLS playoffs PENALIZE the team with the best record: Because DC United had the best record in MLS, they were forced to play the first match of a home and home series on the road, which is a huge disadvantage.

Somehow, I doubt DC's players would agree with you, especially if they had to think about going into Toyota Park needing to get points on the road. God forbid MLS start doing away goals as a tiebreaker under your scenario. If a lower seed gets any goals in the home leg for the higher seed/first leg, they're essentially in the driver's seat as long as they're even on aggregate.

No crying here. As a DC fan I thought we deserved to lose.

But I do think that you have to give the team with the best record some advantage. The season is long as hell. It has to mean SOMETHING doesn't it?

Actually, our season is relatively short for most teams 30 weeks with a two week layoff for the ASG.

Doing well in the regular season rewards you with playing a team that has either had to spend the last 5 weeks winning every game to get every possible point and goal, or play a team that peaked too early and is fading

Quick fix: swap the home and home order and give the team with the best record the first home match.

Seriously, ask the players which way they'd prefer it. It ain't your way.

Better fix: a tie in the aggregate means that the team with the better regular season record goes through (as is done in the Mexican league).

By "better fix" you mean, "reduces competition" for higher seeds.


Regarding American sports fans reactions to ties: perhaps you are right. However, that is what the league said about ties in regular season matches. Turned out they were wrong. Americans are handling ties just fine.

Correction: The league's original leadership and their advisors. Not so for the Garber faction.

[bigdoug]

So is my idea "stupid"? Or "very valid and well thought out"? I'm confused here.

This was more a thought exercise anyway. I can't imagine them reducing the number of playoff teams for the same reason I can't ever imagine the NHL or NBA doing it. Too much money to be made on jacked up tickets for playoff games. Need to keep attendance up late in the season as well. God forbid a lot of teams are eliminated early. (Although I think the baseball and football playoffs have it about right in terms of number of playoff teams.)

I'm not excusing DC's poor play, but they did suffer some crucial late-season injuries (as did Chivas). And I don't think the mid-week game on the road so that ESPN (the world leader in s***y soccer coverage) could broadcast it helped.

Looking on the bright side, DC finally did score against Chicago and can make a reasonable claim they tied the series if not for a bad call. So, maybe that demon is off their backs. A tough break, but perhaps the spell is finally broken. Time will tell.

Meanwhile, the final I was hoping for (after DC lost) was NY-Chivas because neither team has had much success in the stands. But, it looks like we're getting more of the same. Three MLS Cup winners and one three time loser.

[autogolazzo]

Somehow, I doubt DC's players would agree with you, especially if they had to think about going into Toyota Park needing to get points on the road.

Disagree. DC likely would have tied or beat Chicago, as all the teams did. Look at the last few years and tell me which teams have done better. Those who play on the road first or those who play at home. The best teams have a disadvantage. Ask the players.


God forbid MLS start doing away goals as a tiebreaker under your scenario. If a lower seed gets any goals in the home leg for the higher seed/first leg, they're essentially in the driver's seat as long as they're even on aggregate.

Exactly my point. If this was a true aggregate as played in Europe, the current situation of allowong the better team to play on the road would be the correct way.


Actually, our season is relatively short for most teams 30 weeks with a two week layoff for the ASG.

Sure, but EXTREMELY long for an entire season that actually means nothing.


By "better fix" you mean, "reduces competition" for higher seeds.

ABSOFRIGGINLUTELY. Yes, the team that wins the season, gets an ADVANTAGE in the playoffs, just like in the NFL. That is how the season actually means something.

Why even have a regular season in your opinion?


Correction: The league's original leadership and their advisors. Not so for the Garber faction.

No, I am the one who is correct here. I clearly said league. You said Garber.