What do you guys see in Micheal Owen?

[T3h-Nig3rian]

Martins is a much better player yet allardyce keeps benching him for a has been like Owen. The fact that Martins is currently the highest goal scorer in your team should tell you guys something. Newcastle needs to cut their losses and sell Micheal Owen.

[tigerdave]

First of all, I think you're wrong because unlike Martins, Owen will actually be here in January. Secondly, Owen is a world class striker and has been for years, and his goal rate for the club is great when he's healthy. Martins' is as well but Owen is the first choice striker because he's more likely to bang in a goal with the style that we play. Many of the posters here would like to see them both play together, but it's going to take a different manager for that to happen because BSA is fixated on his long-ball, aerial game rather than using the pieces we have (Emre, N'Zogbia, Milner, Martins, Owen) to play an Arsenal or ManU style, which we can do when our main guys are healthy.

[Dirt McGirt]

Martins is a much better player yet allardyce keeps benching him for a has been like Owen. The fact that Martins is currently the highest goal scorer in your team should tell you guys something. Newcastle needs to cut their losses and sell Micheal Owen.I'm with you. Owen has done sweet FA for the club but while he's wearing the shirt he deserves our support. With that being said I think Martins needs to be first choice.

[colinh9]

Well Martins certainly won't be at this club as long as BSA keeps snubbing him. Owen would have left already if anyone actually wanted him. He(Owen) also hasn't proven anything yet, while Martins proved he can play in the Prem very effectively last year. I despise the fact BSA won't play the two up top together, but since he won't I think Martins deserves the nod.

[Dirt McGirt]

Well Martins certainly won't be at this club as long as BSA keeps snubbing him. Owen would have left already if anyone actually wanted him. He(Owen) also hasn't proven anything yet, while Martins proved he can play in the Prem very effectively last year. I despise the fact BSA won't play the two up top together, but since he won't I think Martins deserves the nod.They both can't seem to hold the ball up top. I think Viduka and Martins is my preferred duo up top with Owens getting a start every so often and coming on in the supersub role.

[colinh9]

They both can't seem to hold the ball up top. I think Viduka and Martins is my preferred duo up top with Owens getting a start every so often and coming on in the supersub role.

See I think Martins is pretty effective in holding the ball when we need him to. Owen can't, that I will certainly agree with. I wouldn't start these guys up top every match, only against weaker teams where I think the defense is susceptible to pace and creativity. I'd hardly start them in an away match together either. However, I think there are merits to their partnership that can be exploited at the correct times. It's all about adjustment to different matches, which I think we have done poorly so far(However, you can't truly expect BSA to know his players inside out yet)

[Dirt McGirt]

See I think Martins is pretty effective in holding the ball when we need him to. Owen can't, that I will certainly agree with. I wouldn't start these guys up top every match, only against weaker teams where I think the defense is susceptible to pace and creativity. I'd hardly start them in an away match together either. However, I think there are merits to their partnership that can be exploited at the correct times. It's all about adjustment to different matches, which I think we have done poorly so far(However, you can't truly expect BSA to know his players inside out yet)
I do think Owen needs someone to hold the ball up and run off of, but Oba can create his own shot with his pace and creativity as well as make the runs in front of CB's. I just don't think Oba is as good as laying the ball off as a Viduka.

[colinh9]

I do think Owen needs someone to hold the ball up and run off of, but Oba can create his own shot with his pace and creativity as well as make the runs in front of CB's. I just don't think Oba is as good as laying the ball off as a Viduka.

Fair enough, I certainly would never argue that Oba is as good as laying the ball off as Viduka, but I think against some teams you don't need that type of combination.

[Dirt McGirt]

Fair enough, I certainly would never argue that Oba is as good as laying the ball off as Viduka, but I think against some teams you don't need that type of combination.True and then there's Tevez and Rooney although they play in front of a midfield that gets the ball to their feet they're both still little guys.

[ottoman]

TJ - JP I am surprised to see you gentlemen bit on this one. The proper response is Allerdyce is managing Martins and Owens very nicely thank you. Good day!

[tigerdave]

True and then there's Tevez and Rooney although they play in front of a midfield that gets the ball to their feet they're both still little guys.

Buy Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaka and Lahm. Problem solved. ;)

[T3h-Nig3rian]

First of all, I think you're wrong because unlike Martins, Owen will actually be here in January. Secondly, Owen is a world class striker and has been for years, and his goal rate for the club is great when he's healthy. Martins' is as well but Owen is the first choice striker because he's more likely to bang in a goal with the style that we play. Many of the posters here would like to see them both play together, but it's going to take a different manager for that to happen because BSA is fixated on his long-ball, aerial game rather than using the pieces we have (Emre, N'Zogbia, Milner, Martins, Owen) to play an Arsenal or ManU style, which we can do when our main guys are healthy.

I agree with some of what you said, but you have to realize socc...er...football is not about what you did in the past, it is about your current performance. Owen might have been a World Class player in the past, but can you honestly say he has put on a World Class performace since he joined Newcastle?

[Chupacabra]

Owen might have been a World Class player in the past, but can you honestly say he has put on a World Class performace since he joined Newcastle?

Yes - during the England v. Argentina "friendly" almost exactly two years ago. Owen is also the last NUFC player to score a hat trick - against West Ham on Dec. 17, 2005. Remember, we still haven't seen him play a full season for Newcastle yet - only half of 05-06, a token appearance late in 06-07, and a few games this season.

I don't think he's fully recovered from the extremely long time he was out with injuries, but give him some time and I'm sure his form will return. I'd also like to see him paired up front with Martins more often.

[tigerdave]

Yes - during the England v. Argentina "friendly" almost exactly two years ago. Owen is also the last NUFC player to score a hat trick - against West Ham on Dec. 17, 2005. Remember, we still haven't seen him play a full season for Newcastle yet - only half of 05-06, a token appearance late in 06-07, and a few games this season.

I don't think he's fully recovered from the extremely long time he was out with injuries, but give him some time and I'm sure his form will return. I'd also like to see him paired up front with Martins more often.

Agreed. They say that an ACL injury typically takes 18 months to 2 years to be return to close to full fitness. Which means that we should be seeing close to the old Owen in a few months' time.

[tigerdave]

Check out the blog from Bobby McMahon (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/BobbyMcMahon/2007/11/13/Speakers_Corner_60_Responses), one of the few American-based soccer pundits whose opinion I regard. He addresses the Martins-Owen situation twice when fielding questions from readers.

Phils92001 - The point that I want to make is that of Newcastle. I think that If Big Sam cannot find the goal from Owen, he needs to drop him to the bench and play the one that give the club 17 goals last season.

I think Martins is being robbed the opportunity of not have the chance to play. The club might regret if Martin leaves and that he has lost confidence in the coach because he is playing limited minutes as he used to play last season. If I am correct, whenever Martins and Emre play, there is a different form of attack than what they have now for the pass two game and that Martin scores which is something different than what Owen pose now.

Owen is playing like he is afraid to going into tackles. Whether it is due to his past injury or he is trying to rediscover his form, it might be too late for Big Sam. please give your thoughts on these comments.

Bobby – I think you are looking at this from only one side. If you took the route your suggesting then Allardyce would play Martins and keep Owen on the bench. By doing that Allardyce has no chance that Owen will ever get back to match fitness.

A match fit Owen is a goal machine and as such is a better option than Martins. I’m certain that Owens Premiership record to minutes played at Newcastle is superior to Martins.

There is no doubt that Martins can be an explosive player but he is also very inconsistent and there are times he could not hit a barn door if it was three yards in front of him. There is a reason that Inter generally used him as a substitute.

Henry14 – q1. Can you explain big Sam's lack of tactical nous, why he plays Smith as a defensive midfield, Martins is there to goal scorer but he is on the bench, here is a guy who scored 17 goals last season, more than Viduka and Owen.

Bobby –1. Martins may have scored 17 goals but Viduka scored more - 19. Owen was injured for most of the season so it is hardly a fair comparison. Never been convinced that Martins is a reliable starter, saw it with Inter. Over the careers of Owen and Viduka their individual strike rates are far better than Martins.

[Dirt McGirt]

Check out the blog from Bobby McMahon (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/BobbyMcMahon/2007/11/13/Speakers_Corner_60_Responses), one of the few American-based soccer pundits whose opinion I regard. He addresses the Martins-Owen situation twice when fielding questions from readers.
If Owen needs match fitness then he should be playing in reserve team matches midweek to help with that. I'm firmly in the Oba camp.

[Dirt McGirt]

Oba has something in his game that Micheal doesn't have. Magic! That same magic that turned us all into fans of the game. Very few players have that quality and Oba has it in spades. Anything can happen when his boot is on the ball, anything. Micheal is very clinical poacher now and a good player still but he doesn't have any fantasy in his game. How many players in England could have made that goal Oba did in WHL? A handful maybe and Owen is not one of them imo. There is a reason Top 4 teams seem to want Martins over Owen.

Oba needs to be on the pitch perfecting his talent now. We're not going to win anything this season and if that wasn't clear in August it should be clear now.

Anyone expecting perfection from a 23 year footballer is bound to be disappointed.:rolleyes: TH14, Kaka, Messi and others still struggle on occasion.

[Chupacabra]

Oba has something in his game that Micheal doesn't have. Magic!

First the wonder goals, now it's magic! When did you go all Doug Henning on us?

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/magicians/doug-henning/10044040.jpg

Oba is magic alright. For 10 of Newcastle's last 11 Premiership matches last season he completely disappeared.

Who should we get to replace Owen (not that we should replace him)? David Copperfield?

[Dirt McGirt]

First the wonder goals, now it's magic! When did you go all Doug Henning on us?

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/entertainers/magicians/doug-henning/10044040.jpg

Oba is magic alright. For 10 of Newcastle's last 11 Premiership matches last season he completely disappeared.

Who should we get to replace Owen (not that we should replace him)? David Copperfield?lol David Copperfield is going to jail.

Seriously you want to talk magic Criss Angel doesn't have shit on the great disappearing Mickey Owen. Oba led all scores on our shit side last year so what more do you want from the little guy. He leads the team this year dispite not starting often yet Mickey should get the start since he was so good in the 98 WC?

[Chupacabra]

Oba led all scores on our shit side last year so what more do you want from the little guy. He leads the team this year dispite not starting often yet Mickey should get the start since he was so good in the 98 WC?

In the case of Martins and Owen, I don't think it's matter of either/or. Both Martins and Owen are great assets to Newcastle. I really don't think Allardyce is favoring one over the other, but rather that he views them as being somewhat similar:

Matches as starter:
Owen 7 (Portsmouth, Tottenham, West Ham, Wigan, Derby, Reading, Sunderland)
Martins 7 (Aston Villa, Everton, Tottenham, Bolton, Man City, Middlesbrough, Reading)

Owen has come on as a sub for Martins three times (Aston Villa 63, Everton 74, Middlesbrough 72)
Martins has come on as a sub for Owen three times (West Ham 51, Derby 55, Sunderland 83)
With the exception of the Mackems, Owen was subbed out earlier.

Entire matches played:
Owen 3 (Portsmouth, Wigan, Reading)
Martins 2 (Man City, Tottenham)

Total matches played:
Owen 10
Martins 12
Of course, Owen still had some injury issues that kept him from playing the matches he missed.

Owen will score more goals for Newcastle in due time - it's really too early to write him off completely. He did score a brace against Russia in September so I think it's more a matter of Newcastle overcoming midfield problems more than it's a problem with Owen himself. Both Owen and Martins have lacked good service this season to be effective and dangerous up front.

Martins does go through his hot and cold spells. Last season he scored only one EPL goal between the beginning of the season and Dec. 6 when he finally found his form, and he went the entire months of October and November without scoring any goals in any competition. Last season he was really only on form during December and February in EPL competition and the rest of the time he was average. When Martins is on he is indeed "magic," but he's just not consistent enough to rely on solely (I don't think anybody in the EPL is that consistent). I do think he's worthy of the number 9 jersey and I support him, but I don't want to rely on him to carry this team as I don't think he can do it alone.

I like the fact that we have a lot of pace with both Martins and Owen as strikers. I don't think it's a bad thing to have one striker with pace subbed out for another striker with pace and fresh legs during the second half, whether its Martins for Owen or Owen for Martins. I'd like to see the two paired up front more effectively, but I don't know if a midfield with Joey Barton and Alan Smith in it can provide the service they need to be effective.