OK slightly of the wall

[Footstomper]

But...

Why did William give his brother Odo not only Kent but also North Woolwich (which thus became part of Kent) in the years just after the invasion of 1066? Will the bastard was staying at Barking Abbey, the tower was being built at Tower Hill and Odo was given the bit in between. Why? And what has this got to do with the Bayeaux Tapestry?

No answer. Just the question. Why couldnt the Montfichets handle the area? and its hardly a great prize for the Holy Odo. So again I ask why?

Over to you Norway...

Norway?
Or one of you smart guys

[northbankbar]

Well that's made my day more interesting. Did he literally just have North Woolwich and that's it on the north side? Is it still considered part of Kent? (which I didn't know).

He probably wanted some riverside land on the north bank so he would never have to pay landing/dock fees for any goods coming from the/his south bank. Sea trade coming into London would have mostly landed on the north as well I would have thought. Perhaps it gave him a share in the trade levys. Brothers need concessions sometimes to keep 'em happy.

Probably the wrong end of the stick completely, but I don't know too much about this period in London.

[claret50]

Dunno, maybe Bill didn't reckon much of North Woolwich or Kent back then.:confused:

[norwaytips]

I'll start by sending you an F, as I assume that you meant off.:)
I will have a word with my mate Rod tonight, if he's sober, cos he's the one who's uncle is the dean at Embra uni. These eggheads love useless questions.:D

Thanks though Stomper, I like these questions. I'm sure that it's related to the Thames Iron works and the forming of a works football club, but its finding the link that's the bugger. :rolleyes:

[Footstomper]

Well that's made my day more interesting. Did he literally just have North Woolwich and that's it on the north side? Is it still considered part of Kent? (which I didn't know).



Yeah it was part of Kent until the formation f Newham in the sixties. Thats why its such a dump. Essex didnt want it and Kent didnt care. But its a bloody useless bit of land.

[Footstomper]

I'm sure that it's related to the Thames Iron works and the forming of a works football club, but its finding the link that's the bugger. :rolleyes:

I can link the Hammers to Alfred the Great but Odo's a bit of a bugger.

Oh...

Not right now Ill let someone else have a go:D

[norwaytips]

Not had time yet, but I have a feeling that it's got something to do with Brides and the Church, or at least some crafty bishop sticking his oar in. You also have to think of landing sites on the Thames. The river was at least 3 times as wide then and landing sites were few and far between.
There was also the gas works, but maybe that was later.

[Footstomper]

Not had time yet, but I have a feeling that it's got something to do with Brides and the Church, or at least some crafty bishop sticking his oar in. You also have to think of landing sites on the Thames. The river was at least 3 times as wide then and landing sites were few and far between.
There was also the gas works, but maybe that was later.

Maybe he wanted to go skiing on the Beckton alps? Landing sites dont work for me. You've got (and I'm thinking medieval here) Barking Creek and the mouth of the Lea. Woolwich was, as far as I can work out, pretty useless. Time to go to the domeday book maybe? But I think its part of Hamme. There again Hamme is in tyhe Victoria County History under Essex. Would Woolwich be in Kent?

[norwaytips]

Well he got Kent because he wanted it. He was Williams right hand man; and didn't he get the invasion fleet together?

He also had a lot of land in East Anglia, and I mean vast estates. Now I think that he would want a landing site (I'll look into that) because the Fleet was in London proper. He wouldn't want his landing area right in Williams capital and William wouldn't want him there anyway. Woolwich would have been far enough away. Maybe it was a buffer zone. Maybe it was religion. Barking Abbey was important then. Will the conk lived there for a bit. Oh and Odo was a bishop as well as an earl

The southern side of the Thames was just a vast marshy area back then. The Lee area was the same and he would want to control an area, albeit small, on the northern shore.

Finally, there were no bridges, no tunnels and the only way across was the ferry. That's it. He wanted the ferry rights. :rolleyes:

The tapestry? Didn't he design it, or part of it? Maybe he just got the idea. Anyway it was him, rather than William, that got the credit for it I think.

No, I'll wait until I've spoken to the dean. I'm just guessing and at my age, I get confused easily.:confused:

[Footstomper]

Well he got Kent because he wanted it. He was Williams right hand man; and didn't he get the invasion fleet together?
Yes he did get the fleet together, according to the tapestry which he had created
He also had a lot of land in East Anglia, and I mean vast estates. So He'd want aport on the coast not the swamp of North woolichNow I think that he would want a landing site (I'll look into that)There was one at Barking Creek, if I was william I wouldnt give him another; anyway North woolwich was a swamp, but as I'm typing this, by the name also a market? because the Fleet was in London proper. He wouldn't want his landing area right in Williams capital and William wouldn't want him there anyway. Woolwich would have been far enough away. Maybe it was a buffer zone. Maybe it was religion. Barking Abbey was important then. Will the conk lived there for a bit. Oh and Odo was a bishop as well as an earl. He was given Kent and lumps of Anglia. Why this swampy little dump north of the Thames

The southern side of the Thames was just a vast marshy area back then. The Lee area was the same and he would want to control an area, albeit small, on the northern shore. Why would he? And why would Will want him too?
!
Finally, there were no bridges, no tunnels and the only way across was the ferry. That's it. He wanted the ferry rights. :rolleyes:
I can just see the ceremony: "And to you Odo, my brother, Earl and man of God I give...
The Woolwich ferry! Oh how they cheered
The tapestry? Didn't he design it, or part of it? Maybe he just got the idea. Anyway it was him, rather than William, that got the credit for it I think.

No, I'll wait until I've spoken to the dean. I'm just guessing and at my age, I get confused easily.:confused:

Oh and you havent yet linked alfred the Great and Billy Bonds (surely kindred spirits) in , shall we say, five easy steps?

[norwaytips]

Let me know if I am going the right way. There are several possible reasons.
1. Kent was not defeated after Hastings. Their coat of arms still has the word invictus on it, I believe. It was semi self governing, as with Wales and Scotland.
Odo was put in charge of governing the place and his estate included Plumstead manor and its lands. These included a small pocket of land to the north of the Thames. (this seems likely to me)
He was also a bishop. I assume Canterbury was taken, so did Woolwich exist then? Woolwich is a bit difficult. Its own website starts its history in the mid 1500's. It must have been part of Plumstead or Greenwich.
The third of the conquering brothers was in Barking Abbey, you said. Why? William had been there after he landed, and before the tower was built, but why his brother? I don't know and I can't get hold of the dean.
Odo designed the tapestry, or at least planned it. He did it at Woolwich, and Barking? Both areas controlled by William. God, but this is a mixture of very little knowledge, some fast reading and guesswork. In addition I am in the middle of a murder investigation (I just happen to know the murderer) and bloody busy at work, but I'll mail you about those later.

Let me know how I'm doing please. Alfred and Billy Bonds will have to wait.:D

[Footstomper]

Let me know if I am going the right way. There are several possible reasons.
1. Kent was not defeated after Hastings. Their coat of arms still has the word invictus on it, I believe. It was semi self governing, as with Wales and Scotland.
Odo was put in charge of governing the place and his estate included Plumstead manor and its lands. These included a small pocket of land to the north of the Thames. (this seems likely to me)
He was also a bishop. I assume Canterbury was taken, so did Woolwich exist then? Woolwich is a bit difficult. Its own website starts its history in the mid 1500's. It must have been part of Plumstead or Greenwich.
The third of the conquering brothers was in Barking Abbey, you said. Why? William had been there after he landed, and before the tower was built, but why his brother? I don't know and I can't get hold of the dean.
Odo designed the tapestry, or at least planned it. He did it at Woolwich, and Barking? Both areas controlled by William. God, but this is a mixture of very little knowledge, some fast reading and guesswork. In addition I am in the middle of a murder investigation (I just happen to know the murderer) and bloody busy at work, but I'll mail you about those later.

Let me know how I'm doing please. Alfred and Billy Bonds will have to wait.:D
Cant let you know how you're doing coz i dont have the answer. But you're making sense. Woolwich should be Saxon Wych/wick = market. Will was at Barking. the Tower was being built and Odo was given the land in between.

Oh..
Stay away from murderers

[norwaytips]

Now I'm almost certain that Woolwich was part of the Plumstead manor and that would tie in with the Kent thing. There were, I believe, seven main manor houses in Kent, which is why Kent was divided into 7 parts.
It's also been confirmed to me that Kent was in fact Invictus (undefeated) and that Odo was given the governership, to keep it in order and to keep him busy. The Woolwich bit was just a fluke and had no meaning at all, if this is correct. William probably never even knew until the Kentish, or Cantish, manors had been given to Odo. Shame really, cos I liked the ferry idea best.:rolleyes:
Why was the other one in Barking? Red herring, I think. At least as far as the other questions go. He was the weakest of the three and I don't think the other two thought much about him.
William was a bit scared of Odo. Odo had power, both within the church and out of it. William had him slung in the tower for life, though he was released later. No brotherly love there, but a good deal of respect, I think.
I'll stick to that version and hope I've convinced you.
If I bring you an apple in the morning, can I have a star? and at least an 8/10?:D

[Footstomper]

At least 8/10 But Will was at Barking while the Tower was being built. I suspect Odo was actually in Woolwich, on the grounds he was just the sort of friend you would want to keep close. I think the Plumstead thing is a bit of a Red Herring, Woolwich was never part of Kent until made so by William's dispensation. By giving Woowich to Odo William secured the entire northern bank of the Thames seaward of London and kept a dangerous ally in close check. Did Odo therefore have the Tapestry made to demonstrate his dubious loyalty the William. Could it therefore have been designed and/or made in Woolwich?

[LAIrons]

Seriously now, who can tell me the difference between a Man of Kent and a Kentish Man ?

[Footstomper]

One's a man from Kent and the others just a bit of a Kent?

[claret50]

Seriously now, who can tell me the difference between a Man of Kent and a Kentish Man ?
Don't blame me if this is wrong!!


Man of Kent or Kentish Man?

Kent is traditionally divided into West Kent (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/West_Kent) and East Kent (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/East_Kent) by the River Medway (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/River_Medway). This division into east and west is also reflected in the term 'Men of Kent' for residents east of the Medway; those from west are known as 'Kentish Men'. The female equivalents are 'Maid of Kent' and 'Kentish Maid'.
However, further investigation shows that the division is not the Medway, but further east in Gillingham. Edward Hasted, in his 1798 description of Rainham, writes: "The whole of this parish is in the division of East Kent which begins here, the adjoining parish of Gillingham, westward, being wholly in that of West Kent."
The division, according to one historian, Freddie Cooper, a former Mayor of Gillingham, remained until April 1, 1929 when Rainham was transferred, despite protest, from the administration of Milton Rural District Council to that of Gillingham.
Most English counties have nicknames for people from that county, such as a Tyke (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Tyke) from Yorkshire (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Yorkshire) and a Yellowbelly (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Yellowbelly) from Lincolnshire (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Lincolnshire); the traditional nickname for people from Kent is 'Kentish Long-Tail', deriving from the long-held belief on the continental mainland of Medieval Europe that the English had tails.
The early mediæval church divided Kent between the Diocese of Canterbury (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Diocese_of_Canterbury) and the Diocese of Rochester (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Diocese_of_Rochester). These divisions are maintained by the modern Church of England (http://www.arikah.com/encyclopedia/Church_of_England).

[norwaytips]

Brian mate, I feel humbled in your presence. :o