Revs vs Pats

[The Perfesser]

This has a very similar title to the Revs vs Red Sox thread, but this is for a very different purpose.

I'd like to use this thread as a way of comparing the commitment that the Krafts have to the Patriots and specify the things that we'd like to see them have for the Revs.

It's clear that they love the Patriots viscerally and are willing to spare no expense to do everything they can to make a "commitment to excellence" as the Oakland Raiders' boss Al Davis used to say.

What would a "commitment to excellence" for the Revs look like if the Krafts saw the Revs the same way as they do the Pats?

[The Perfesser]

Let me get this started. What would convince me that the Krafts were moving toward a commitment to the Revs the might someday equal their commitment to the Pats would be (in no particular order):

The beginning of a serious discussion for a smaller venue for the Revs. Where is the urgency for the Somerville location, or any other location?

Until there is a new SSS, finding some way to play on real grass instead of the plastic at Gillette that we have now. If that's not possible, then the removal of all of the Pats' markings when they are not playing within 24 hours of the Revs.

A shirt sponsorship.

A DP.

Filling all of the International Slots.

A serious youth academy and searching for local talent among the the thousands of teenagers playing in all kinds of leagues.

World Cup style goals instead of the rec league goals we have now. There are only an average of 3 goals a game scored, so each goal should look like the beautiful thing that it is. The Revs claim that they have to use the rec league goals because they have to move them for the Pats. For some reason this isn't a problem for Red Bull at the Meadowlands.

What else?

[KWorld]

F the Krafts!

[Soccer Doc]

It's clear that they love the Patriots viscerally and are willing to spare no expense to do everything they can to make a "commitment to excellence"

BULL SHIT. If that were true they would never have let the best kicker in the NFL go ---BECAUSE OF MONEY---as well as other star players who wanted more than the Krafts were willing to pay. The Krafts apply the same smart business principles to both the Revs and the Pats.

[Chowda]

BULL SHIT. If that were true they would never have let the best kicker in the NFL go ---BECAUSE OF MONEY---as well as other star players who wanted more than the Krafts were willing to pay. The Krafts apply the same smart business principles to both the Revs and the Pats.

Yup, they've let a lot of players go because of money. Samuel's gone after this year unless he gets hurt.

Here's another important point: The Krafts make a lot more money when they win the Super Bowl from straight up bonuses to world-wide merchandise sales to advertising revenue.

If they Revs won MLS Cup, they'd probably end up losing money on operating costs from not shutting down early.

* The beginning of a serious discussion for a smaller venue for the Revs. Where is the urgency for the Somerville location, or any other location?
They learned the hard way when they tried to bulldoze their way to a stadium in Southie. Toronto has shown how you need to have all your ducks in a row before you make announcements. Just look at the problems RSL got in when they got ahead of themselves. Also, you want that mayor to make premature announcements when he just won the preliminary election and looks to win by a landslide?
* Until there is a new SSS, finding some way to play on real grass instead of the plastic at Gillette that we have now. If that's not possible, then the removal of all of the Pats' markings when they are not playing within 24 hours of the Revs.
This has been addressed. It would take buying ten more of those machines and hiring more staff. That would equate to the Revs current salary over the lifetime of the current rug.
* A shirt sponsorship.
Why is this important for showing the team's commitment to the sport? Would you have them settle for a mediocre deal so you can show your two European friends that we look just like them? I don't get it. Let them make a deal that will maximize profits going forward.
* A DP.
It has to be the right one. Look at Denlinson. If the Revs had signed him, they would be deep in the red in a season they probably turned a profit.
* Filling all of the International Slots.
You want the Krafts anywhere near South American scouting? SN should demand a bigger staff for this. We have no idea what has happened behind the scenes in this area.
* A serious youth academy and searching for local talent among the the thousands of teenagers playing in all kinds of leagues.
I'm curious if people even know what they mean by "youth academy"? Do they want local clubs usurped, a campus, what?
* World Cup style goals instead of the rec league goals we have now. There are only an average of 3 goals a game scored, so each goal should look like the beautiful thing that it is. The Revs claim that they have to use the rec league goals because they have to move them for the Pats. For some reason this isn't a problem for Red Bull at the Meadowlands.
This is a pet peeve of yours, not a sign of lack of commitment.


Look, I've had similar issues, but the fact remains the Krafts are the only local owners willing to host a solid MLS team in our area. They have dragged their feet in several areas, sure. However, the ones who have shown "commitment" have all taken a huge loss. Most of the money sources for those clubs have been from either a billionaire wanting to make a huge impact on the sport in the US to pass on to posterity (Hunt), or an eccentric Billionaire with money coming out of his ears (Anschutz). Kraft takes a different approach to business and to life.

[patfan1]

BULL SHIT. If that were true they would never have let the best kicker in the NFL go ---BECAUSE OF MONEY---as well as other star players who wanted more than the Krafts were willing to pay. The Krafts apply the same smart business principles to both the Revs and the Pats.
Yes, they've let certain players go. They've also brought in some extremely good players, including twice bringing in arguably one of the top 2/3 players available in the market.

So no ... it's not fully the same business principles.

[KaptPowers]

Yes, they've let certain players go. They've also brought in some extremely good players, including twice bringing in arguably one of the top 2/3 players available in the market.

So no ... it's not fully the same business principles.

To say nothing of the off-the-field stuff like marketing or overall presence in the market.

[ngower]

Basically, this is how I see it.

The Patriots generate a lot of income, therefore their "bank account" is fairly large. The payoff of signing a big name (Randy Moss) is that he will have payed for his salary before the season is over, through merchandising and advertising.

The Revs on the other hand have to spend most of their money on advertising (which they don't do) as there isn't enough interest to be able to dish out the big bucks. Rather than go for a DP like Reyna or Angel, we have to really think about it and get a guy like Blanco to tap into our ethnicities. It's a tough job for the guys in suits, but this is what they get paid to do so I'd imagine they will find a solution.

[REV-OKe]

Yes, they've let certain players go. They've also brought in some extremely good players, including twice bringing in arguably one of the top 2/3 players available in the market.

So no ... it's not fully the same business principles.

well, you could of course argue all day long about this, and it would be a first...

I''ll play.

The Krafts have done the same for the Revs in the past year, arguably twice paying top dollar to resign the top 2/3 players in the league at thier position availible onthe market in Twellman and Joseph.

[wolfp10]

well, you could of course argue all day long about this, and it would be a first...

I''ll play.

The Krafts have done the same for the Revs in the past year, arguably twice paying top dollar to resign the top 2/3 players in the league at thier position availible on the market in Twellman and Joseph.

Joseph and Twellman were under contact when they signed their current deals with the Revs, so it is a real stretch to say they were "available on the market".

What players have the Revs brought in this season or last as free agents?

[patfan1]

well, you could of course argue all day long about this, and it would be a first...

I''ll play.

The Krafts have done the same for the Revs in the past year, arguably twice paying top dollar to resign the top 2/3 players in the league at thier position availible onthe market in Twellman and Joseph.
And you'll lose that argument.

The Pats kept Brady and Seymour when they chose to pay them, before either got to the last year of their own deals. Just like Twellman and Joseph. That's apples to apples.

Comparing keeping Twellman and Joseph to going out and getting Colvin and Thomas ... well that really isn't.

[revsrock]

BULL SHIT. If that were true they would never have let the best kicker in the NFL go ---BECAUSE OF MONEY---as well as other star players who wanted more than the Krafts were willing to pay. The Krafts apply the same smart business principles to both the Revs and the Pats.

"Star" players let go or traded or didnt resign because of "money"and what they have done after and I mean major major impact.


Nothing at all:

Milloy
Bledsoe-traded for a draft pick which was Ty Warren
Tebucky Jones-got a 2nd rd pick for him, which they turned into Corey Dillion
Woody
Givens
Ted Washington
Corey Dillion

List could go on

Too early to tell
Graham
Branch-traded to Seattle for a 1st rd pick, which allowed the Pats to trade their 2nd 1st rd pick for the niners, which is now huge because of the spygate thing. The Pats get to keep the best of the 2 first rd picks

Okay
Willie
Ty Law

good
Vinateri


So needless to say when the Pats make a move on getting rid of a player it works out 90 percent of the time in their favor.

[rkupp]

Yes, they've let certain players go. They've also brought in some extremely good players, including twice bringing in arguably one of the top 2/3 players available in the market.

So no ... it's not fully the same business principles.
They paid pretty well for Adalius Thomas, but probably not top of the market price. But, the Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth deals are more typical of what the Pats like to do. They managed to get premium talent at bargain prices. And the Deion Branch situation shows just how far they will go on principal. If that doesn't send a clear signal to Asante Samuel that they aren't going to blink, nothing will.

Anyway, it's a false comparison. The Krafts aren't involved in running the Patriots personnel or player payroll. That's fully under the control of Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick.

And, equally important, no one has show any evidence that they are involved with the Revolution roster/payroll.

Surely if a DP opportunity was being considered, that would probably need ownership approval. But, short of that, I just don't see the Krafts being involved at all. Bob Kraft knows all about delegating and he'd probably be the first to admit that he knows even less about soccer than football.

[patfan1]

They paid pretty well for Adalius Thomas, but probably not top of the market price. But, the Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth deals are more typical of what the Pats like to do. They managed to get premium talent at bargain prices. And the Deion Branch situation shows just how far they will go on principal. If that doesn't send a clear signal to Asante Samuel that they aren't going to blink, nothing will.

Anyway, it's a false comparison. The Krafts aren't involved in running the Patriots personnel or player payroll. That's fully under the control of Scott Pioli and Bill Belichick.
I agree with both paragraphs. Anyway, my point about Thomas and Colvin was just to show that we're talking apples and oranges.

Anyway, Thomas did take a little bit smaller amount than he could have gotten elsewhere, but it doesn't change that he was one of the top 2/3 FAs available.