It's official - Spuds and ManU have dodgy fans

[Red Agave]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7050190.stm

The BBC is reporting official crime figures for last season that show:

"The club with the most fans arrested was Manchester United (195), followed by Chelsea (135) and Sunderland (119). Newcastle and Tottenham came next in the list, both with 117. "

"Tottenham had the most fans arrested for violent disorder (30), while Manchester United had the most held for public disorder (98). "

I'm sure the nasty element of their fans will be delighted the Scum came top in something last year :rolleyes:

[Detlef]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7050190.stm

The BBC is reporting official crime figures for last season that show:

"The club with the most fans arrested was Manchester United (195), followed by Chelsea (135) and Sunderland (119). Newcastle and Tottenham came next in the list, both with 117. "

"Tottenham had the most fans arrested for violent disorder (30), while Manchester United had the most held for public disorder (98). "

I'm sure the nasty element of their fans will be delighted the Scum came top in something last year :rolleyes: especially the tossers in the section next to us at Emirates for the 2d leg of the Carling Cup.

[goonsquad]

Well I could have told you that without the fancy BBC link.;)

[PsychedelicCeltic]

This should also put into context the whinging by Man Utd and Spurs fans about how they were victimised in Italy, France and Spain.


Sure you were.

[CaptVimes]

I am finding this thread hard to reconcile with the Denton thread. Are we lamenting the loss of diamond geezer thugs this week as a loss to the club or are we pointing the finger at other clubs. I am sure they are all decent people at the end of the day will reform in later life have kids and all that maybe meet a celeb or two...

[Guy Fawkes]

I am finding this thread hard to reconcile with the Denton thread. Are we lamenting the loss of diamond geezer thugs this week as a loss to the club or are we pointing the finger at other clubs. I am sure they are all decent people at the end of the day will reform in later life have kids and all that maybe meet a celeb or two...

I only have minimal knowledge of Denton, but from what I know, one shan't diss the Bear.

[antifan]

I am finding this thread hard to reconcile with the Denton thread. Are we lamenting the loss of diamond geezer thugs this week as a loss to the club or are we pointing the finger at other clubs. I am sure they are all decent people at the end of the day will reform in later life have kids and all that maybe meet a celeb or two...
Can't we do both? ;)

[CaptVimes]

Can't we do both? ;)

Not really without looking like hypocritical tools.

[PsychedelicCeltic]

Not really without looking like hypocritical tools.
Wrong.

Denton mellowed out. There were 40 year old Man U fans throwing chairs at the carabinieri in Rome.

[CaptVimes]

Wrong.

Denton mellowed out. There were 40 year old Man U fans throwing chairs at the carabinieri in Rome.

Erm right.

Who is to say they wont mellow out as well. This was arrests in this country it has sod all to do with Rome.

[PsychedelicCeltic]

Erm right.

Who is to say they wont mellow out as well. This was arrests in this country it has sod all to do with Rome.
Well, they were as old as Denton so that's usually a good sign they won't mellow out.

Also since you were likely trapped in a cave, you didn't hear the endless whinging by Man Utd fans about how they'd been victimised by the naughty bad carabinieri when TV cameras showed chairs flying at the police from the Man Utd section.

[CaptVimes]

Well, they were as old as Denton so that's usually a good sign they won't mellow out.

Also since you were likely trapped in a cave, you didn't hear the endless whinging by Man Utd fans about how they'd been victimised by the naughty bad carabinieri when TV cameras showed chairs flying at the police from the Man Utd section.

Once again this has nothing to do with Rome its an 8% increase in hooligan arrests in the UK, ENGLAND OVER HERE...Despite you harping on about your conclusive age test of the incident in ROME. I just think its not a time to be complacent about it.

[The Iglooman]

Well I could have told you that without the fancy BBC link.;)

Well, its better that its official now :)

[PsychedelicCeltic]

Once again this has nothing to do with Rome its an 8% increase in hooligan arrests in the UK, ENGLAND OVER HERE...Despite you harping on about your conclusive age test of the incident in ROME. I just think its not a time to be complacent about it.
Reasoning is beyond ye, o limited one.

[CaptVimes]

Reasoning is beyond ye, o limited one.

Seems like reading is beyond you o stupid one.

[deaner1971]

Seems like reading is beyond you o stupid one.

There is a difference between two groups of willing combatants fighting and random violence targeted at anyone wearing an opposing side's shirt. It is all about context.

For example, I run up behind you and drive your body into the ground leaving you battered, it is assault. A line backer hits a quarterback and does that, it is on Sportscenter. Difference, the quarterback agreed to put himself in that situation. No different when two groups of hooligans fight and limit their action to willing participants without trying to attack regular fans.

If you can't differentiate between Denton's actions (and the fact that they occurred 20 years ago and he was a different man) against something that happened yesterday, then you will have trouble differentiating.

If Gaylord Perry died the same day some pitcher got in trouble for taking steroids, I could mourn the man while criticizing another's cheating.

It's all context.

[CaptVimes]

There is a difference between two groups of willing combatants fighting and random violence targeted at anyone wearing an opposing side's shirt. It is all about context.

For example, I run up behind you and drive your body into the ground leaving you battered, it is assault. A line backer hits a quarterback and does that, it is on Sportscenter. Difference, the quarterback agreed to put himself in that situation. No different when two groups of hooligans fight and limit their action to willing participants without trying to attack regular fans.

If you can't differentiate between Denton's actions (and the fact that they occurred 20 years ago and he was a different man) against something that happened yesterday, then you will have trouble differentiating.

If Gaylord Perry died the same day some pitcher got in trouble for taking steroids, I could mourn the man while criticizing another's cheating.

It's all context.
I am sure there are gang members that you can liken it to rather than a linebacker in a game of football. There are a good number in the US I could name as examples who have turned their lives around. When people start glamorising gangs and gang culture it needs a healthy dose of reality check.

I have stood on the terraces in the 80's and actually travelled to those games. I do not want those days to return, you can try and lecture me that it was all so very sanitary and only those who wanted to get involved in violence did but that is simply not the case.

Its on the increase again I have seen it happen once and I am not sure how many families that go to games now and people that meet Rick B for tickets in the Arsenal Tavern would be up for a return if they were pitched into the middle of a battle the like of which we had endure in the 80's. These are the ones that are labelled the prawn sandwich brigade (I am not including corporates in that) and those that arent real fans because they arent prepared to have their head kicked in in the name of Arsenal.

As for the Gaylord Perry example (what a name!) It would be a better analogy if you were hankering back to the good old days of better players who took steroids and put their bodies on the line as opposed to todays player and then started to call the other teams cheats.

[Skizz]

If I'm right in reading what you said initially (saying Denton was a hooligan), Denton was one of those people who turned his life around, so coming out with all this hooligan malarchy when discussing his untimely passing seems to me like you're tarring everyone who has done this in their past with the same brush.

Sorry if that's wrong, it's just what it seems like.

[antifan]

If I'm right in reading what you said initially (saying Denton was a hooligan), Denton was one of those people who turned his life around, so coming out with all this hooligan malarchy when discussing his untimely passing seems to me like you're tarring everyone who has done this in their past with the same brush.

Sorry if that's wrong, it's just what it seems like.
I dunno, he does have a point. There has been so much written and so many tv shows and movies about hooligans lately. It really does nothing but glamorize it, and its is no surprise that its making a comeback, even at Arsenal. At the Bucharest game there was a pretty big group of young "hoolies", many with fresh cuts and bruises from the West Ham game. And you could tell they were looking for more trouble. It's an issue that seems destined to rise again in the near future.

[Guy Fawkes]

Well, from what I've heard, he was always fair. I think Deaner made a very good point, in that these people knew what they were getting into. Denton would never cheap shot anybody, or hit a kid or a woman, or anything ridiculous like that. There were/are unwritten rules, and, from what I understand, he always followed them. He got a lot of people out of many sticky situations. And that was all before he changed.

I think he definitely needs to be remembered properly and positively, and his life celebrated; he was loved by many, and I don't think insulting him immediately after his death is the correct course of action.