View Full Version : Canada Open Cup -- If not, then why not?
DCsub5for16
09 Aug 2002, 09:58 PM
In the recent past, the U.S. Open Cup winner has received a bid to the CONCACAF Champions Cup. In the absence of a "Canadian League" per se, why not have a Canada Open Cup involving all of the nation's senior-level professional and amateur teams? Soccer Canada could then submit the winner of this competition as the true National Champion for a bid in the Champions Cup. Even if CONCACAF chose to compel the Canada Open Cup winner to qualify via the Caribbean Zone or Central American Zone qualifying, would this not be better than nothing? I put it to you, esteemed neighbors.
DoyleG
09 Aug 2002, 10:52 PM
Originally posted by DCsub5for16
In the recent past, the U.S. Open Cup winner has received a bid to the CONCACAF Champions Cup. In the absence of a "Canadian League" per se, why not have a Canada Open Cup involving all of the nation's senior-level professional and amateur teams? Soccer Canada could then submit the winner of this competition as the true National Champion for a bid in the Champions Cup. Even if CONCACAF chose to compel the Canada Open Cup winner to qualify via the Caribbean Zone or Central American Zone qualifying, would this not be better than nothing? I put it to you, esteemed neighbors.
Why wasn't Rochester allowed to compete when they won the US Open Cup?
No one should take notice of this tournament until it is cleaned up.
DCsub5for16
09 Aug 2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by DoyleG
Would A-League teams that won the Open Cup been invited? No likely.
Besides, who would want to compete in a competition that most see as "byzantine".
It's not as if A-League teams have never been invited before (see Seattle Sounders). Even the Brooklyn Italians amateurs competed in 1991. The invitations don't depend on how good a team is; only that they are the best in their nation as determined by the certifying competition.
Do you consider the UEFA Champions League "byzantine" as well? Seems like plenty of teams want in to that "byzantine" competition. Although, to be fair, the $$$ is a bit better in that confederation's cup competition.
DCsub5for16
09 Aug 2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by DoyleG
Why wasn't Rochester allowed to compete when they won the US Open Cup?
No one should take notice of this tournament until it is cleaned up.
I can't swear to it, but I would guess that was the doing of U.S. Soccer and MLS, rather than CONCACAF.
I think everyone is a little off-point on this thread. It's not that Rochester deserved or didn't deserve a Concacaf Cup bid. And it's not the point that Canada should have a tournament so that they can get a bid. The point is that Canada should get a tournament because Canada SHOULD have a tournament, and SHOULD have a league. Focus should be on the main goal.
CalgaryMJ
17 Aug 2002, 02:40 PM
With the talk of the CUSL there had been talk of Calgary hosting a mini-tourney in September that would crown the Canadian champion. Unfortunately even that modest enterprise seems to have come to naught. It's a sad statement that the CSA is unable to even organise this much of an effort.
DoyleG
17 Aug 2002, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by CalgaryMJ
With the talk of the CUSL there had been talk of Calgary hosting a mini-tourney in September that would crown the Canadian champion. Unfortunately even that modest enterprise seems to have come to naught. It's a sad statement that the CSA is unable to even organise this much of an effort.
The big thing about the CUSL was that there was to be 4 more teams along with the A-League squads. The inter-locking schedule would have been a bit too much for the A-League teams. It would have been hard to convince owners in other cities to jump aboard such a plan.
CalgaryMJ
17 Aug 2002, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by DoyleG
The big thing about the CUSL was that there was to be 4 more teams along with the A-League squads. The inter-locking schedule would have been a bit too much for the A-League teams. It would have been hard to convince owners in other cities to jump aboard such a plan.
That was the long term plan with those 8 teams constituing a Canadian Conference within the A-League. When they couldn't get that to fly, as an interim item and to get themselves some credibility there was going to be a Canadian champion crowned in Calgary the second weekend of September. To the best of my knowledge that whole championship concept is now DOA unfortunately and I don't see anything on the horizon to replace it.
DoyleG
19 Aug 2002, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by CalgaryMJ
That was the long term plan with those 8 teams constituing a Canadian Conference within the A-League. When they couldn't get that to fly, as an interim item and to get themselves some credibility there was going to be a Canadian champion crowned in Calgary the second weekend of September. To the best of my knowledge that whole championship concept is now DOA unfortunately and I don't see anything on the horizon to replace it.
It would have been hard to convince owners and fans in Edmonton to go along with the CUSL proposal.
CalgaryMJ
20 Aug 2002, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by DoyleG
It would have been hard to convince owners and fans in Edmonton to go along with the CUSL proposal.
Owners of what? Last I checked there wasn't a team of note in Edmonton.
DoyleG
20 Aug 2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by CalgaryMJ
Owners of what? Last I checked there wasn't a team of note in Edmonton.
Owners and fans of a franchise in Edmonton. Just 7 games wouldn't cut it for them.
CalgaryMJ
22 Aug 2002, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by DoyleG
Owners and fans of a franchise in Edmonton. Just 7 games wouldn't cut it for them.
Still an interlocking schedule with various proposals as to how many games to play. Hosting every Canadian team twice gives you 14 games. One proposal had two Canadian divisions (E/W) playing in the E/W conferences of the A-League for a 19 game schedule. ie. Edmonton would host each of its 3 WestCan Div rivals twice, EastCan Div Rivals once and once for each of the WestConf US teams once. Playoffs were a mess and I never did understand what they were proposing (best I saw had a seperate Canadian A-League tourney at the end of the regular A-League playoffs).
DoyleG
27 Aug 2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by CalgaryMJ
Still an interlocking schedule with various proposals as to how many games to play. Hosting every Canadian team twice gives you 14 games. One proposal had two Canadian divisions (E/W) playing in the E/W conferences of the A-League for a 19 game schedule. ie. Edmonton would host each of its 3 WestCan Div rivals twice, EastCan Div Rivals once and once for each of the WestConf US teams once. Playoffs were a mess and I never did understand what they were proposing (best I saw had a seperate Canadian A-League tourney at the end of the regular A-League playoffs).
Starting to sound a lot like the schedule being used by the CFL. 2 games against each team plus 2 more and 2 main rivals. In Edmonton's case, it's Calgary and the Riders.
What's liekly holding up this league seem the unwillingness of A-League franchises to join a new Canadian League. Only Calgary seems to be the more interested.
Krammerhead
27 Aug 2002, 05:17 PM
Just to wade in here late to correct the misinformation posted above, the plan for the CUSL was not to have 8 teams in the A-League nor was it to have 8 Canadian teams have intelocking play with the A-League. It was to have the 4 present teams continue to play in the A-League (a regular schedule just like they do now) and to play interlocking games with the CUSL teams that were not in the A-League.
That being the case it would not affect the American A-League clubs as they would continue to play their regular 28 game schedule and they would not have any games against the other non A-League CUSL teams.
When the league was first put on the backburner for another year, they were going to as Calgary MJ said) have a tournament held in Calgary at the end of the season (2 teams or 4 teams?). Anyway the usless CSA couldn't even sort that out which is why there should be plenty of doubt about us ever having our own soccer league in the near future.
Originally posted by Krammerhead
Just to wade in here late to correct the misinformation posted above, the plan for the CUSL was not to have 8 teams in the A-League nor was it to have 8 Canadian teams have intelocking play with the A-League. It was to have the 4 present teams continue to play in the A-League (a regular schedule just like they do now) and to play interlocking games with the CUSL teams that were not in the A-League.
Maybe that's right, because I guess the Cusl-AL interlocking-schedule idea came from the AL, not the Cusl. It was proposed as the intermediate between fully-seperate-league, and fully-stay-in-the-AL. I guess that idea got the most play of the three options.
Although the scenario that Krammerhead said is something that I haven't heard: 4 teams stay in the AL, 4 (or 8?) teams form the Cusl, and appearently the 4 Canadian AL teams would play against the Cusl teams....sounds even more complex than the other ideas.
Krammerhead
27 Aug 2002, 06:23 PM
The reason that the 4 present A-League teams were to stay in the A-League is simply because the owners of those teams did not want to sever ties with a league that is reasonably stable to wwitch to a league with an uncertain future. The only way they'd consider being part of a CUSL was if they were allowed to play the A-League season and have interlocking games with the rest of the CUSL teams.
It is complex because I don't know how many games that would make the Canadians play in a season and really a ridiculous solution. They should either go top an all-Canadian League (and if the Canadian A-League teams say "no thanks" then other Canadian cities can take their place) or they should just add another 4 cities to the A-League and have a seperate tournament to decide a Canadian champion.
photar74
20 Sep 2002, 06:54 AM
For many years Welsh teams playing in the lower divisions of English football were allowd to compete in UEFA competitions due to the absence of a Welsh league. Right now, the one or two teams from Lietchenstein (sp) that play int he lower divisions of Swiss football are allowed to compete in the UEFA Cup.
What I am saying is that I believe that Vancouver of the A-League should be allowed into the CONCACAF Champions Cup in some way. They advanced further than Montreal, and to manage an 8-2 aggregate win over the seemingly invicible Sounders is no small achievement.
DoyleG
29 Sep 2002, 07:16 PM
They would have to convince the CSA to help finace teh trip. That is if the Caps make it to next season.
Originally posted by photar74
What I am saying is that I believe that Vancouver of the A-League should be allowed into the CONCACAF Champions Cup in some way.
What makes you so sure that they wouldn't be allowed in right now, if they just called up CONCACAF and asked?
DCsub5for16
29 Sep 2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by JG
What makes you so sure that they wouldn't be allowed in right now, if they just called up CONCACAF and asked?
Which gets to the heart of why I started the thread in the first place. Does anyone know if the CSA has ever even tried to get a team in?