Red Bull New York Fans Questions about Loyalty

[Michael K.]

Do you all consider the Cosmos a "New Jersey team"?

Don't think we "all" consider anything, anything?

What does your question have to do with the price of tea in China?

[NYC_COSMOS]

In my opinion, a NYer refusing to support a team because they play on the west side of the Hudson isn't much of a NY sports fan. Strikes me as a weak excuse to avoid the effort it takes to support the one and only team here.

I don't mind people saying they want another team in NY. I object to people saying NY doesn't have a team. That's simply erroneous.

To quote NE fans: WHERE IN NEW YORK IS NEEEEWW JERSSSEEEEEYYYY?!?!?!
LOL LOL LOL

[NYC_COSMOS]

I can't wait for the day that New Jersey plays Inter New York for the first time in NYC. It's going to be pandemonium. Roman candles. Flags. Chanting. Swamp vs. Swamp (if its in flushing meadows). Let's get it on. In the end that will become the PREMIER rivalry of the MLS. There will be nothing else like it in the MLS. Actually it will probably help the REDBULLS out in the end. They will end up getting more fame and fortune.

[DoctorK]

To quote NE fans: WHERE IN NEW YORK IS NEEEEWW JERSSSEEEEEYYYY?!?!?!
LOL LOL LOL

There's a very simple answer for that. Northern New Jersey is the western portion of the New York City metropolitan region. Not a difficult concept to grasp...

I've never heard anyone say the Revs should be called the Massachussets Revolution. But there are people in New England (e.g. southern CT) who feel that they live in the New York metro sports region/market, and who therefore root against the Boston metro area sports teams. If the Revs were called Boston instead of New England, I think our rivalry would be more intense. As is, we don't hate them the way we hate DC.

[NYC_COSMOS]

There's a very simple answer for that. Northern New Jersey is the western portion of the New York City metropolitan region. Not a difficult concept to grasp...

I've never heard anyone say the Revs should be called the Massachussets Revolution. But there are people in New England (e.g. southern CT) who feel that they live in the New York metro sports region/market, and who therefore root against the Boston metro area sports teams. If the Revs were called Boston instead of New England, I think our rivalry would be more intense. As is, we don't hate them the way we hate DC.

DoctorK I understand that concept that Northern NJ is considered part of the NYC metro area. We could take as examples the Giants and the Jets as NY teams that play in NJ. But the underlying factor here is that 85% of the
MetroBull fan base is from NJ. So the RBNY moniker comes more from a place of desire than a place of reality. It would be similar to the NJ Devils changing their name to be part of NYC. When in reality it never was that way.

[Metrogo]

There's a very simple answer for that. Northern New Jersey is the western portion of the New York City metropolitan region. Not a difficult concept to grasp...

I've never heard anyone say the Revs should be called the Massachussets Revolution. But there are people in New England (e.g. southern CT) who feel that they live in the New York metro sports region/market, and who therefore root against the Boston metro area sports teams. If the Revs were called Boston instead of New England, I think our rivalry would be more intense. As is, we don't hate them the way we hate DC.

If the REvs are called "New England" to represent the entire 6 state region, what does that mean for Chivas USA?

[NYC_COSMOS]

If the REvs are called "New England" to represent the entire 6 state region, what does that mean for Chivas USA?

Chivas should undergo a rename. Something more local maybe related to LA. Remember that when you try to sell to everyone you end up selling to no one. Instead Chivas should try to market themselves more to the LA CHIVAS fan and to completely HEAT UP the rivalry with the Galaxy.

[Metrogo]

Chivas should undergo a rename. Something more local maybe related to LA. Remember that when you try to sell to everyone you end up selling to no one. Instead Chivas should try to market themselves more to the LA CHIVAS fan and to completely HEAT UP the rivalry with the Galaxy.

I was joking. Chivas USA is to distinguish it from chivas mexico. They're not trying to claim they are THE usa team.

[NYC_COSMOS]

I was joking. Chivas USA is to distinguish it from chivas mexico. They're not trying to claim they are THE usa team.

I know you weren't. I was just trying to make a reference to the rivalries and marketing of teams.

[jamison]

I have to be honest - i just never adapted them as my team. Not because they play in Jersey because the Jets do and I am a fan of them. The Location did have something to do with it. I mean I go to the meadowlands on Sunday but its one day a week. Soccer is played maybe twice a week and getting to that stadium was always difficult for the matches. Maybe I can blame myself for not trying to adapt them enough...

Um...twice a week? They play 15 home games a year, or call it two a month for 7 months. It's not like it's a daily commitment. You'd be going no more frequently than you do for Jets games now, just that the season is 7 months instead of 4. Maybe 1 week a year they play Thursday and Sunday, but usually 1 would be on the road, and there were only 2 Thursday home games this year, which some people skipped. It's not like following the team requires mandatory attendence at every home game, either.

Hard to get to? Kind of. But, when you think about doing something a dozen times a year, the extra 30 minutes between it being relatively convenient and relatively inconvenient isn't really all that significant...it's a half-day activity anyway. Just like going to a Yankee game would be for someone who lives in Brooklyn. I bitch about the bus too at times, but it would take me about the same time to get to Shea on the subway from the Bronx as getting to GS does.

To me it's more of a mental thing. Neither side, Jersey guys or NYC kids, like to cross the river. So, NYC guys say they can't go to Jersey for a game because it's too hard just like Jersey guys don't like coming into the city for a match viewing at a bar because it's hard to park.

But anyone (not you) saying that they follow soccer but can't be sussed to go because it isn't convenient smacks more of laziness than anything else.

I get that people are really excited about the idea of a team in NYC proper, it would be "easier" in a lot of ways. But one guy drives up from Virginia, 15 times a year, to go to home games. It's not real convenient for him, either, but he makes the effort.

I grew up in NYC & Westchester. Put a gun to my head and fill the team with naked strippers, I'd never root for the Nets over the Knicks, or Devils over the Rangers. But, I followed the then Metrostars because I liked soccer and wanted to support it. I never thought of it as "crossing the river", even though all of the games were in Jersey and most of the fans were there, it was just supporting what I had to support.

(not directing the below at you).

Over the last 8 years though, I've come across tons of fans with an excuse as to why they couldn't follow it. It's in jersey. It's hard to get to. The team sucks. The name is stupid. The front office is terrible. The stadium is bad. Security are thugs. It's bad soccer. (Now) It's named after a soda can. You name it, I've heard it ten times over. Some of those are more or less valid from time to time, but they are all relatively small factors. (It's in Jersey, but you can get there without a car on $ 15 relatively easily; it's not great soccer, but it's not Honduran 3rd division either; fan experience is bad, but it's good at times, and it's not like your life is ever in danger there, etc).

Mostly though, I've found that people chose not to follow it because they don't want to make the effort to do so, and then they find a reason to explain their lack of interest and use that as an excuse for why they don't put their soccer money where their internet mouth is. Like, "I'm a big fan, but I don't follow it for reason X, which is their fault."

There is this idea that the team has to meet a series of criteria in terms of stadium, transportation, level of play, etc before they support it. Like, "sorry, it only rates a 67 on the 'worthy of my support' scale, and I only follow teams that get over an 85". I've listened to some of these people and you get the feeling that the only thing they'll "settle" for is ManUtd playing live games in their apartment. As if the fans of Kidderminster, or Gretna, or Luton ever got to make decisions about qualifying their support based on convenience, quality and vanity.

I really hope that if the second NY team does come to pass, all of the people I've run into these last years put their excuses aside and follow the team. The English snobs in places like Nevada's. The NYers who can't cross the river. The Yanks who only follow EPL because it's "quality". The latinos who play in Corona but don't make it to Jersey. The Italian kids with gelled hair and shiny adidas who don't show because it's not Juve/Roma/etc.

I say that, because I'd really hate to have to listen to the new set of excuses about people not going because the stadium isn't in Manhattan, or because the 7 doesn't run Express on the weekends, or because $ 18 is too much for a bleacher seat, etc.

[NYC_COSMOS]

RBNY/METRO fans have a hard time accepting that soccer fans in NYC just DONT LIKE RBNY. All the excuses just are used to show this sentiment. Whatever the reason the METROSTARS and then later RBNY just didnt connect with the people in NYC. RBNY has to accept this and deal with this. Either you market to these people or you market to NJ. Its really a basic case of POOR MARKETING. When you try to sell to everyone you end up selling to NO ONE. RBNY should market strongly to NJ fans because thats where their fan base truly is. This would strongly increase the fan base of the club and start the turn around that RBNY really needs. NYC Proper then would become its chief rival and the cross town rivalry will begin.

[DoctorK]

Keep holding your breath for "NYC Proper." :rolleyes:

[Q*bert Jones III]

For the most part I've tried to stay out of this argument, excepting snarky comments every once in a while.

But Jamison's post is really good and I feel inspired. :D

In 1996, I was at the very first MetroStars game. I wanted to support the local team (even though I'm originally from DC). I trudged through that first year supporting the idea of MLS even if I had trouble with the actual MetroStars. For all the reasons that Jamison and others describe (plus a few others, namely the hostile attitude towards supporters from the Metro FO and the animals working security), I stopped bothering to put any personal investment in any more. By the end of '96 my disillusionment was complete and I stopped watching MLS altogether for several years, and stuck to watching European games on the tube. I gave the local guys a chance and I felt betrayed by the league, the team, and the experience.

I was one of those guys that Jamison so adroitly exposes.

A few years later, I was living in Washington and I went to a United game. Even though the team was really, really terrible in those days, the experience was completely different. Subway to the game. Passionate crowds in a grand old stadium. A front office that (gasp!) encouraged active participation. The play was still crappy but I remembered why I wanted MLS to succeed in the first place. I've been a fan ever since.

I think what I learned is that there are a couple of components that are important to me. One is that the stadium must be in an urban setting. I'm not sure why this is but I'm certain that it's important. The stigma with New Jersey is real for me and many others. Matt Burlew and others can bleat on endlessly how NY is a region but it won't ever change my perception. Sorry.

The front office must be supportive of the fans. Not the soccer moms and AYSO kids, the REAL fans. For the life of me, I've never understood why this is rocket science. If families go to a game and see invested fans they'll be much more likely to support the team than if they go and see a giant fuzzy mascot, piped music, cheerleaders and all the trappings of phony exuberance. Kids (and grown ups, to a lesser extent) are smart and pick up on the bullshit immediately. The support is either real or it's phony and this is driven by both the supporters and the front office.

I am a "scum" fan and I suppose I always will be, but I support the notion of a NYC team for the good of the league, but only if they do it right.

[MasterShake]

If you live in or around NY and NJ and you "love" soccer, there is absolutely no reason you should not support the hilariously bad team with an even funnier team name. Btw...have fun getting to the games. :D

Id walk to the games from Brooklyn if I had to.

[nymetrobulls]

If you live in or around NY and NJ and you "love" soccer, there is absolutely no reason you should not support the hilariously bad team with an even funnier team name. Btw...have fun getting to the games. :D

Id walk to the games from Brooklyn if I had to.

That is what I don't understand. How can you claim to be a real fan of the sport when you choose to completely ignore the only team in your area.

[southpaw817]

If you live in or around NY and NJ and you "love" soccer, there is absolutely no reason you should not support the hilariously bad team with an even funnier team name. Btw...have fun getting to the games. :D

Id walk to the games from Brooklyn if I had to.

Lol i appreciate someone with humor and who doesnt take things too seriously.

That is what I don't understand. How can you claim to be a real fan of the sport when you choose to completely ignore the only team in your area.

I actually agree,I watch RBNY games b/c they are the only Pro US games on NY television. I have even been to games. I support American soccer in all its forms,it's just that they are not my team.The second franchise would give RBNY the shot in the arm it needs. If their is competition it will make your management try alot harder to please you and the other fans.

[DoctorK]

I think what I learned is that there are a couple of components that are important to me. One is that the stadium must be in an urban setting. I'm not sure why this is but I'm certain that it's important.

So when they announce the 2nd team is in a suburban location you've got your excuse.

[KingsCountyFC]

there is no suburban area in NYC proper.
It's by definition Urban.

[DoctorK]

there is no suburban area in NYC proper.
It's by definition Urban.

Obviously.

Why would you conclude that a second NY franchise would be in an urban setting?

It is much more likely that it will be just as suburban, if not more so, than where the Red Bulls play.

So it will be very interesting when/if the second franchise arrives and the same old excuses justify absence/disinterest.

[KingsCountyFC]

The only logical place for a second NYC team is in Queens.
Maybe Brooklyn, but most definetly Queens.
That would make it Urban. If I can get to the Stadium using
the subway, then it's in NYC and Urban.