Relegation in danger?

[GABESTA535]

In the new BBC rumors it says foreign owners are wanting to get rid of relegation to protect their investment. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Don't follow the American system. If anything American sports need promotion and relegation

[Powerhitter04]

Thats' a horrible idea. They need to keep it the same.

[MNAFETSC]

In the new BBC rumors it says foreign owners are wanting to get rid of relegation to protect their investment. This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Don't follow the American system. If anything American sports need promotion and relegation

Why do american leagues need pro-rel system? We seem to have been doing find for over a 100 years now without it so why?

[alain_9510]

:confused::confused::confused:

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Promotion/relegation is a huge part of the excitement, and also is the source of a large portion of the cash which the foreign owners want.

[GABESTA535]

America needs it because so many cities and regions are growing larger and can support teams but the american leagues cannot expand any more than 30 teams as it would ruin the competitveness. Every city deserves a chance to have a team

[BobanFan]

Worst. Idea. Ever.

Promotion/relegation is a huge part of the excitement, and also is the source of a large portion of the cash which the foreign owners want.

Agree 100%, also would it be against UEFAs ethos and therfore exclusion from CL and UEFA cup?

[RichardL]

I haven't seen the article (I couldn't find it on the Express site) but I'd suspect it could be more a comment on the Ipswich chairman speculating that it could happen, rather than there actually being any evidence that it's being discussed.

The clubs that foreign investors are targetting tend to be the top clubs, who shouldn't be worried about the threat of the drop anyway.

[MNAFETSC]

America needs it because so many cities and regions are growing larger and can support teams but the American leagues cannot expand any more than 30 teams as it would ruin the competitiveness. Every city deserves a chance to have a team

Please get over the romanticism. IF we had pro/rel those 32 NFL teams would be the top teams and metro areas like mine with over a million people would have teams that are the equivalent to a millwall or Port Vale because our market would be considerably smaller. The fact is with a 32 team closed league everything is stable. Every penny that is made is split equally, every team is on equal footing for the super bowl, and there isn't the everyman for himself mentality like there is in leagues with pro/rel.Plus no one would be interested in a lower division since we have college ball to watch when the NFL isn't playing.

[Dave Brull]

For several reasons which have been expounded on by people wiser than I, pro/rel will probably never happen in American sports, even in soccer, primarily due to the disparate nature (league structure, finances) of the various American leagues.

[BlackburnRover]

How come this thread got onto debating the American league structure and their phobia of relegation/failure. Which boils down to the fact that their league is first and foremost a business and no-one in that business will accept the lost revenue of relegation, which in turn leads to a lack of competitivenes and general disinterest outside of the top few teams.

Luckily we had a few decades of sport before business got involved so we've got a healthy league, which should be left well alone by corporate types who don't actually give a shit about football other than the revenue it generates.

[billyireland]

and there isn't the everyman for himself mentality like there is in leagues with pro/rel.I agree with most of your post to some extent, but you do see error here, don't you?

[MNAFETSC]

I agree with most of your post to some extent, but you do see error here, don't you?

I dont see what it would be. When I say every man for himself I mean no revenue sharing. In the NFL all tv money, sponsor money, and merchandise money is split 32 equal ways; and ticket sales are split 60-40 in favour of the home team. In a closed league its the league that is the buisness in pro/rel leagues its the individual clubs that are the buisness all competing against each other for more than just trophies.

[MNAFETSC]

Which boils down to the fact that their league is first and foremost a business and no-one in that business will accept the lost revenue of relegation, which in turn leads to a lack of competitivenes and general disinterest outside of the top few teams.

.

Thats hilarious because thats how I describe the premier league. A lack of competition in the NFL? Are you serious. Every year ther are at least 6-8 teams that can be considered super bowl contenders plus about another 10 who could be considered dark horses. How many clubs in the premier league can say they legitimately have a chance at the title?

[BlackburnRover]

Thats hilarious because thats how I describe the premier league. A lack of competition in the NFL? Are you serious. Every year ther are at least 6-8 teams that can be considered super bowl contenders plus about another 10 who could be considered dark horses. How many clubs in the premier league can say they legitimately have a chance at the title?

Well, if you think about it I'm not actually talking about competition for the title am I. If you think the Premier League is about the title race alone you've never really paid much attention to it outside of the media hype you're spoon fed.

I think this is the whole crux of the eternal pro/rel debate we get on here. When it's getting to the end of the season here the teams with no chance of the title don't just have a few friendly kickabouts waiting for the season to end because they had a crap season. For one, down to mid table, teams are trying to get into Europe, and two, the bottom half are fighting desperately against relegation. In fact the relegation battle can often be more interesting than the title race. Pretty much down to the last game every team but one or two have something to play for, quite often a lot to play for.

I'm not criticising your league, it's just a whole different mind set and culture I think. You seem scared of the thought of relegation, worried about losing support, revenue etc etc. Yes it's very bad, believe me I know how it feels to see your team relegated, but I also know that I felt almost as good when we got promoted as when we won the title. You can look forward to watching the big teams again etc.

Your own post about shared revenue sums a lot of the differences up between how we see things. We sort of want the individual teams to be in competition with each other, in fact that's the whole idea of the league. Sod the closed league business idea. We like competition, and nasty competition at that. If you're shit then you get relegated, and you generally deserve it. In the same way you generate or lose your revenue depending on how succesful you are. If you want to improve you've got to do it yourself. If you want the best players then you'd better work for it, not get first shout because you're crap.

Like I said I'm not really criticising your league at all. It obviously works for you and I'd never go onto a thread about your league telling you I think you've got a crap way of running it. We've just got different ways on how we like to see the whole thing done though.

I must admit I find it strange how a country that promotes and thrives on competition seems afraid of it on an individual team basis. But I'd never say that on one of your threads, it's your leaguer after all;)

[MNAFETSC]

I must admit I find it strange how a country that promotes and thrives on competition seems afraid of it on an individual team basis. But I'd never say that on one of your threads, it's your leaguer after all;)

Thats because the NFL as a whole is the buisness and the teams are its franchises. By working together as one everyone makes a profit. NFLs goal is to make every team economically equal so the championship is decided on the field and not who has the most money to buy up all the talent. Thats why the NFL is by far the number one watched sport in the US and why MLB and the NBA who allow more individual freedom lag behind it.

[billyireland]

I dont see what it would be. When I say every man for himself I mean no revenue sharing. In the NFL all tv money, sponsor money, and merchandise money is split 32 equal ways; and ticket sales are split 60-40 in favour of the home team. In a closed league its the league that is the buisness in pro/rel leagues its the individual clubs that are the buisness all competing against each other for more than just trophies.
Oh ok, I thought you meant with relation to the actual players. ;)

[auf Amerika]

The BBC and Guardian have become xenophobes with regards to English football. They love to write about the barbarians at the gate. It is much to do about nothing. Relegation is going no where.

What some people need to realize though is that relegation is not good for business. It is very bad for business. If you get relegated, you lose a ton of money and have to spend several years getting yourself back in the top league (hopefully) for another decent spell. It also makes most European leagues, like Scotland for example, really uncompetitive and therefore unattractive to the spectator which lowers TV revenue and such. The way UEFA is set up, non-relegation, costs countries like Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland and Austria high-caliber teams... which they could afford if there was a Euro-wide league with a set number of teams. So Brussels, Copenhagen, Zurich and Vienna all have lesser teams in lesser leagues than Wigan and Sunderland do.

[BlackburnRover]

Thats because the NFL as a whole is the buisness and the teams are its franchises. By working together as one everyone makes a profit. NFLs goal is to make every team economically equal so the championship is decided on the field and not who has the most money to buy up all the talent. Thats why the NFL is by far the number one watched sport in the US and why MLB and the NBA who allow more individual freedom lag behind it.

Yeah I reaslise that after browsing a few other threads. I think it's like I said we've just got different ways of how we like it to be run. When I came on these boards at first I didn't realise how much of a franchise your whole league was.

We like the competition of individual teams and find it alien how your league tries to keep it on an equal footing for all. You find it weird how we go for survival of the fittest and sod the rest approach. Although we dish out a lot of money to all clubs it's by no means equal.

Both have probably got benefits but going back to the original thread I really hope we keep it like it is and keep business out of it as much as possible. Chelsea fans are starting to suspect their initial elation at getting huge amounts of cash from an owner has its price.

[BlackburnRover]

The BBC and Guardian have become xenophobes with regards to English football. They love to write about the barbarians at the gate. It is much to do about nothing. Relegation is going no where.

What some people need to realize though is that relegation is not good for business. It is very bad for business. If you get relegated, you lose a ton of money and have to spend several years getting yourself back in the top league (hopefully) for another decent spell. It also makes most European leagues, like Scotland for example, really uncompetitive and therefore unattractive to the spectator which lowers TV revenue and such. The way UEFA is set up, non-relegation, costs countries like Belgium, Denmark, Switzerland and Austria high-caliber teams... which they could afford if there was a Euro-wide league with a set number of teams. So Brussels, Copenhagen, Zurich and Vienna all have lesser teams in lesser leagues than Wigan and Sunderland do.

I appreciate all these comments and it goes back to how we think about all this differently.

Like you said, relegation is bad for business, it can cripple a club if they don't manage it well. But the whole point is that this is a sport not a business. I'm in no way deluding myself that business isn't a huge part of our game now, but I also think it's sad that it is. I at least hope we pretend it's still a sport or I'll start watching rugby or something.

[RichardL]

What some people need to realize though is that relegation is not good for business. .
and what people over there need to realise is that people know this here. Relegation isn't a prize. It's not meant to be good for business. It is good for business for the club that gets promoted though, and people over there don't seem to grasp that.

Possibly, with sports being split into major and minor categories, there doesn't seem any bonus to promoting a minor league team, as they'd never be able to compete with anyone. That isn't a problem here.