Why doesn't DCU follow Chicago's lead RE a stadium?

[Sandon Mibut]

Reading the threads on the Fire board about getting a stadium built, I couldn't help but wonder why DC doesn't follow Chicago's lead.

Basically, the Fire have created an environment where teams are competing to help them get a stadium. They sent out a request for proposal to every hamlet and town big and small in the greater Chicago area, got about a dozen responses they liked and have now narrowed the choices down to four.

At the end of the day, they may still end up at Soldier Field, though that is doubtful, but at the very least they have created leverage for getting a better deal with the city of Chicago to stay there.

But, at best they are getting a new place to play and by soliciting offers from the burbs, they have gotten the city of Chicago's attention and if Chicago wants the Fire to stay, there gonna have to come to the plate with a reason for them to do so.

Given how the District is both constantly screwing United and dragging its feet in regards to committing to a soccer stadium, I'm curious why DCU doesn't do the same thing the Fire did and send out a request for proposals - complete with a list of requirements like size, parking spaces, transportation, etc... - and see who in the area is interested.

If the answer is no one, then we really haven't lost much but if, a la the Fire, a few areas say the want a soccer stadium, than DCU can pick the one it wants the most AND it puts a lot of heat on the District to shi+ or get off the pot.

I think at the end of the day, Mayor Williams doesn't want to lose DCU but right now he has no motivation or incentive to anything to help them as the team isn't looking - barring the "discussions in College Park - to go anywhere outside the city.

Further, given the number of links to newspaper articles on the threads on the Fire board, it appears this plan of action has created some added media coverage of the team that it otherwise wouldn't have gotten and there's no reason to believe the same thing wouldn't happen in DC, either.

Unless there's a really good reason why DCU doesn't do this, I'm curious why they wouldn't and if there is a good reason why they aren't following the Fire's model, I'd like to know what it is.

[sch2383]

The site where they are talking about builidng the baseball stadium in Arlington would be great location for a SSS. Its near the Metro and the major roads and depending on how the stadium is built, you could get a view of some of the famous buildings and monuments in DC. Since recent reports have said that IF there is a baseball team coming to the area, it will be to DC, then it would make sense to put a SSS in Arlington.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by sch2383
The site where they are talking about builidng the baseball stadium in Arlington would be great location for a SSS. Its near the Metro and the major roads and depending on how the stadium is built, you could get a view of some of the famous buildings and monuments in DC. Since recent reports have said that IF there is a baseball team coming to the area, it will be to DC, then it would make sense to put a SSS in Arlington.

There's a fair amount of opposition to the stadium from Arlington residents.

[Jose L. Couso]

Originally posted by BarbDett
There's a fair amount of opposition to the stadium from Arlington residents.

Barb is correct.

However, let's not forget that two Arlington County Council members, namely Chris Zimmerman and Walter Tejada, are DC United fans.

[Sandon Mibut]

I don't want this to get into a debate about the viability of a soccer stadium in Arlington though I do think that it would be easier to sell a stadium that will attract smaller crowds and only be used about 40 times a year (DCU, Freedom, various other stuff) vs. 81 + for baseball.

But, I'd still like the original question - why DCU doesn't follow the Fire example - answered.

[Victory]

I bet that a major reason DC has not followed the fire path is because of the political structure of the surrounding areas. Although, I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination of chicago area politics the political units in Virginia and Maryland are quite large. Where could a stadium be built.

DC
Alexandria
Arlington
Fairfax
Loudoun
Montgomery
Some other Maryland Counties

The fire sent out Request for Proposals to something like 40 communities. DC has only 8 or 9 communities to send the proposal to. The odds of many of them not responding are quite high. I think it would be counterproductive to use the Fire strategy.

[roadkit]

I'm all for keeping the name "DC" United, but I would be ecstatic if they played ANYWHERE in the Metro area besides DC. The last thing this corrupt city needs is another way to siphon off millions of dollars from a construction project.

[revelation]

Look quite simply if the RED****ingSKINS couldn't blackmail DC into improving their deal at RFK, why in El Diablo's empire do you think that the Stadium Authority would acquiece to DC United?

READ MY STATEMENT: THIS TYPE OF NEGOTIATIONS WILL NEVER WORK WITH DC!

DC politics are very complex, first you have the whole city council with very different agendas from the pro-gentrification, pro-development members from Northwest to the anti-development, pro-affordable housing Northeast and Southeast (and yes I am over generalizing). Then you throw congress on top of it because they have approval of DC's budget. So some low-life representative from some backwater hell hole in Texas can demand that DC get's nothing because his sister-wife doesn't like the way people look in this city. Then you throw on top of that officials who are more concerned with their own personal take rather than doing their jobs... Makes for a difficult situation to try to get anything done.

[CHICO13]

My 2 cents...
I think that Anshultz knows that this is a premier market for futbol. You don't make a zillion bucks by being stupid. He's just sitting back, sucking on a fat Macanudo waiting to to see how all this baseball crap will play out. If Northern Virginia gets the team, then it's cake. If DC gets awarded the team, then things get a little more complicated....

Time will tell

[Lowecifer]

I think Peter Wilt is a shrewd GM, and is doing a phenomenal job in all respects with the Fire.

I wish, and to some degree expect, that United would pursue a similar course of action here. The 40 communities that got the RFP for the Firehouse were not in 40 seperate counties. I think there are a multitude of municipalities that could receive the RFP.

I'm not as familiar with Virginia, so let me tackle MD:

Montgomery County has 19 municipalities comprised of:

Barnesville
Brookeville
Chevy Chase, Town of
Chevy Chase View
Chevy Chase Village
Chevy Chase, Village of, Section 3
Chevy Chase, Village of, Section 5
Gaithersburg
Garrett Park
Glen Echo
Kensington
Laytonsville
Martin's Additions
North Chevy Chase
Poolesville
Rockville
Somerset
Takoma Park
Washington Grove.


Prince George's County has 27 municipalities comprised of:

Berwyn Heights
Bladensburg
Bowie
Brentwood
Capitol Heights
Cheverly
College Park
Colmar Manor
Cottage City
District Heights
Eagle Harbor
Edmonston
Fairmount Heights
Forest Heights
Glenarden
Greenbelt
Hyattsville
Landover Hills
Laurel
Morningside
Mount Rainier
New Carrollton
North Brentwood
Riverdale Park
Seat Pleasant
University Park
Upper Marlboro

Howard County has no incorporated towns or municipalities, but I think everyone is aware of the soccer behemoth that is Columbia, MD.

Okay, so not all of these are feasible choices, and for some reason there's like 5 versions of Chevy Chase, and I'm not sure I want to know the history of "Martins Additions" :eek: but what you see here is 47 potential recipients of an RFP if you include Columbia.

And just because I was in the mood to do some research, I found the following municipalities in Virginia:

Fairfax
Falls Church
Manassas
Manassas Park
Arlington
Alexandria

Apparently there are only 6 incorporated towns in NoVA, which is fairly illustrative of the generally sprawling, land-wasting, suburban nature of NoVA. ;)

At any rate, I count 53 addresses to which an RFP could be sent, regardless of what the DC government is or is not capable of matching. In the end, I believe the only place United should play is in the District of Columbia, but then again I'm an Urban Romantic, or maybe that's a romantic urbanist, or maybe I'm just urbane and romantic.
:-)

[CHICO13]

Originally posted by Lowecifer


And just because I was in the mood to do some research, I found the following municipalities in Virginia:

Fairfax


HEY!! I'm Barra Brava Born and Bred, but I don't want those derelicts in my backyard....

[ursula]

Originally posted by revelation
Look quite simply if the RED****ingSKINS couldn't blackmail DC into improving their deal at RFK, why in El Diablo's empire do you think that the Stadium Authority would acquiece to DC United?

READ MY STATEMENT: THIS TYPE OF NEGOTIATIONS WILL NEVER WORK WITH DC!

DC politics are very complex, first you have the whole city council with very different agendas from the pro-gentrification, pro-development members from Northwest to the anti-development, pro-affordable housing Northeast and Southeast (and yes I am over generalizing). Then you throw congress on top of it because they have approval of DC's budget. So some low-life representative from some backwater hell hole in Texas can demand that DC get's nothing because his sister-wife doesn't like the way people look in this city. Then you throw on top of that officials who are more concerned with their own personal take rather than doing their jobs... Makes for a difficult situation to try to get anything done.


This may be true, rev, but I think Sandon is willing to let DC lose the team if some suburb is willing to bid for the team. Since I am no longer a DC-area resident, I also think the process should be opened up to potentially any area in the metro region. I've never understood why it seemed that Payne was fixed on only dealing with the DC commission.

[Barbara]

Originally posted by Jose L. Couso
Barb is correct.

However, let's not forget that two Arlington County Council members, namely Chris Zimmerman and Walter Tejada, are DC United fans.


Hmm.... I did not know this. I'll consider this in the event I ever have the opportunity to vote for them for something or other.

[Barbara]

A prime consideration for stadium placement is mass transit - preferably metrorail - access.

That severely narrows down the real estate from which to choose.

[CHICO13]

Originally posted by revelation
Look quite simply if the RED****ingSKINS couldn't blackmail DC into improving their deal at RFK, why in El Diablo's empire do you think that the Stadium Authority would acquiece to DC United
Actually, that whole deal fell apart because old Jack Kent Cooke decide to pat Sharon Pratt Kelly on the touchas..
The Old Man was arrogant and wanted to make a point, Kelly was insulted and steadfast.

If Marion Barry was Mayor at the time, the NEW Redskins Staduim would be downtown....

[Lowecifer]

Originally posted by BarbDett
A prime consideration for stadium placement is mass transit - preferably metrorail - access.

That severely narrows down the real estate from which to choose.

Absolutely correct, and this should be part of the evaluation of each RFP response.

[Dave Brother]

Just so I'm clear, what is the minimum size piece of land we're talking about to fit the stadium and a parking lot into? I'm all for United checking into the Potomac Yards site in Alexandria. It's right in between two metro stations, although walking to it from either is quite a trek. Idealy lot 8 is the prefered site, hands down.

[DigitalTron]

Originally posted by sch2383
The site where they are talking about builidng the baseball stadium in Arlington would be great location for a SSS. Its near the Metro and the major roads and depending on how the stadium is built, you could get a view of some of the famous buildings and monuments in DC. Since recent reports have said that IF there is a baseball team coming to the area, it will be to DC, then it would make sense to put a SSS in Arlington. There are 5 VA sites being considered, 3 in Arlington. The one you mention (with the view and close to the metro) is extremely expensive, and well beyond prohibitavely so. Just to buy out the residents of the current 4 buildings would cost ~250M. And that doesn't include blowing them up (the buildings) and clearing away the rubble, much less actually breaking ground on the construction.

Similarly, the land for the other Arlington sites simply isn't feasible. Land in this area is extremely expensive. VA land is more expensive than DC land. Currently, where RFK is located, is not a particularly nice part of town, thus it isn't quite as expensive even if they did want to sell it, which I believe they cannot.

The other 2 VA sites are probably too far away for comfort to MD commuters, and not as metro-accessible.

-Digital

[TEConnor]

Originally posted by Dave Brother
Just so I'm clear, what is the minimum size piece of land we're talking about to fit the stadium and a parking lot into? I'm all for United checking into the Potomac Yards site in Alexandria. It's right in between two metro stations, although walking to it from either is quite a trek. Idealy lot 8 is the prefered site, hands down.

Dave my Brother, good question. What is the minimum size piece of land?

I think the new Fulham stadium in central London will be the best guage for the minimum size plot of land necessary. There is no question that those wacky brits have figured out the best ways to fit 30,000 seaters in back alleys and snickleways. So, I'll see what I can dig up.

I will say this, just to preempt the question: the old convention center site is too small.

Tim

[DigitalTron]

Here's a theory. Perhaps AEG has scouted the local hamlets informally without an RFP. Perhaps they realize that the dramatic and sudden growth of NoVa has priced all of the good sites out of their reach, and there aren't many decent MD sites to even consider inside the beltway. Outside the beltway would likely drastically reduce attendance as the metro likely wouldn't be an option.

So, while AEG wants leverage with DCSA, they may not want to play that card and come up empty-handed, because that would only harden the DCSA's resolve.

Plus, I'm not sure Anschutz really wants to be building 3 stadiums simultaneously. Even very rich people have to look at cash flow. The Harrison stadium is obviously the priority, then I'd guess that Chicago is 2nd priority, then I'd say DC's stadium is probably 3rd priority and San Jose's 4th. That's likely the order of how they're burning through cash.

-Digital