Mexican Clubs in South American Cups..

[nopalnation]

In the past few years I have been hearing that there is a lot of resentment towards Mexican clubs for playing in South American tourneys like Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana (even Copa America but lets leave nationals teams out of this one for now), prompting some South American fans to really resent these clubs participation, even though 90% of all teams in Mexico have from 3 to 5 Sudamerican players in their squads, not to count the crazy amount of money they bring to the Cups.

Anyway, I was just wondering why some of you don't want them there and why? I mean If it's true that there is that resentment, or is there a legitimate reason; or maybe it's that they just don't like us:confused:

Appreciate your comments good or bad;)

[Caturro]

In the past few years I have been hearing that there is a lot of resentment towards Mexican clubs for playing in South American tourneys like Copa Libertadores and Copa Sudamericana (even Copa America but lets leave nationals teams out of this one for now), prompting some South American fans to really resent these clubs participation, even though 90% of all teams in Mexico have from 3 to 5 Sudamerican players in their squads, not to count the crazy amount of money they bring to the Cups.

Anyway, I was just wondering why some of you don't want them there and why? I mean If it's true that there is that resentment, or is there a legitimate reason; or maybe it's that they just don't like us:confused:

Appreciate your comments good or bad;)

At this point resentment is not so much against Mexican teams, but mostly against CONMEBOL. I mean, shit, there's more Mexican teams participating in Sudamericana than Chilean teams. Last time I checked, Mexico's still in CONCACAF... these are the things that irk me, but whatever. CONMEBOL allows this mostly out of interest.

What's done is done, though. Colo Colo was good enough to at least get to the final last year, the better team always will always get the farthest, doesn't matter if they are Mexican, Chilean, Martian, etc.

[posteador]

I don't mind to be honest...I think they are good oponents and almost always bring quality teams...Copa America is also more fun with them in it, they always bring A squads...

The only thing I don't like is that they have quite a bit of advantages like Caturro said.

[argentine soccer fan]

I think it's good for the competition. We get to see some different teams, and different players. We've seen some very good teams come from Mexico, and some very good matches involving Mexican teams.

Plus, Some Mexican fans are hilarious. They win a match and they think they're the best. It's still not the same as beating a traditional rival, but it's getting to be fun to play them.

Of course, I can see the point of view of Caturro, we shouldn't have more teams from Mexico than from a South American country. I guess it comes down to money, and that is not right. But other than that, it's cool with me.

[Perguanov]

There is a big reason why MLS teams dont get a berth in the libertadores-the early group stage presents a significant logistic problem since four teams have to travel back and forth to get to their matches. This works out well within the southamerican continent...but it would be a mess to travel from North to south america for six matches.
And for that I guess there is but one solution: there should be an exclusive north american group with two MlS teams and two Mexican teams and the best two go to the next knok-out stage, which has the same format as the Copa Sudamericana...which doesnt have a group stage and which is why mls teams are allowed to participate

[Mosco]

My two cents what I like about Copa Sudamerica and Copa Libertadores is it gives a chance for all these great clubs representing good futboling countries like Chivas vs Boca, Santos (Bra) vs club America (Mex) to get a break from their leagues and get some good international challenge also i'm sure euro scouts like it as well. Also it makes my week go alot smoother something to cheer about also we can see each others fans in different countries see how they celebrate in the stands.

[Perguanov]

TWO mexican teams + 2 MLS teams in a north american libertadores group...then there comes the knok-out stage, like the sudamericana

THATS THE FORMULA FOR MLS TEAMS TO GET IN THE LIBERTADORES

[Piedraias]

TWO mexican teams + 2 MLS teams in a north american libertadores group...then there comes the knok-out stage, like the sudamericana

THATS THE FORMULA FOR MLS TEAMS TO GET IN THE LIBERTADORES


you're answering a question no one is asking.

[Mosco]

you're answering a question no one is asking.



lol

[Santeria]

To me I find it annoying how mexican(s) clubs/NT always have to include themselves in everything CONMEBOL does, like they think it's there right to, when they have their own thing.

I think we (south americans) should invite other teams other then Mexico, sure they should get there turn but so should everyone else...

give everyone else a chance to improve like Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, ect...

We always invite Mexico, sometimes Costa Rica and now sometimes U.S.

If they love playing with us so much they should play in our qualifiers... I'm sure they'd be fast to say "No Thank You" to that offer.

My main point is, give chances to other counteries... It's pretty corrupt if you think about it.

[Panfilo]

To me I find it annoying how mexican(s) clubs/NT always have to include themselves in everything CONMEBOL does, like they think it's there right to, when they have their own thing.

Its a two way street there buddy. There is a lot of Concacaf teams that want to play Libertadores & Sudamericana and Copa America.

But they don't

You know why?

Because Conmebol could care less about them

I think we (south americans) should invite other teams other then Mexico, sure they should get there turn but so should everyone else...

give everyone else a chance to improve like Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, ect...

Its your confederation right?

So how does playing the likes of El Salvador and Guatemala

Help the teams of your region?

They get the competition and experience while your teams get jack Sh*t.

While if they play Mexican teams they both get competition and experience while Conmebol also gets $$$$$$$$$$$.

And more importantly for you guys in the states you get to watch these competitions in the states because well if the Mexican clubs or the Mexican NT isn't in it you guys have to look up the clubs where to watch these games or pay for the ppv or try to figure out which website provides the best streams. :p

We always invite Mexico, sometimes Costa Rica and now sometimes U.S.

If they love playing with us so much they should play in our qualifiers... I'm sure they'd be fast to say "No Thank You" to that offer.

My main point is, give chances to other counteries... It's pretty corrupt if you think about it.

There are a lot of people in the Mexican federation who want to join Conmebol. Heck even Hugo Sanchez has called for it.

But it won't happen.

The Mexican Fed has to ask for permission to Concacaf to play in these Conmebol events. The only way Mexico can go to Conmebol if is Fifa allows it. That won't happen because Jack Warner is pretty influential in Fifa. The last thing he wants is to have is the most pre$tigiou$ team in his confederation leaving.

Plus every country in Conmebol would have to accept.

The FAs don't mind as long as the Mexican teams compete in the club competitions and Copa America. Its good business.

But the last thing Colombia, Uruguay, Ecuador, Paraguay, etc. want is more competition for the WC slots. It might be good business but risking qualification isn't worth it.


Corruption?

Part of the game always has been always will be

[destruktion]

Well said.The truth hurts.

[Caturro]

To me I find it annoying how mexican(s) clubs/NT always have to include themselves in everything CONMEBOL does, like they think it's there right to, when they have their own thing.

I think we (south americans) should invite other teams other then Mexico, sure they should get there turn but so should everyone else...

give everyone else a chance to improve like Panama, Honduras, El Salvador, ect...
We always invite Mexico, sometimes Costa Rica and now sometimes U.S.

If they love playing with us so much they should play in our qualifiers... I'm sure they'd be fast to say "No Thank You" to that offer.

My main point is, give chances to other counteries... It's pretty corrupt if you think about it.


WTF man, CONMEBOL is not a charity. Why should we be held responsible for the improvement of CONCACAF?

CONMEBOL tournaments should be gearing towards minimizing the number of participant teams, not increasing it. There's way too many teams as it is.

In a perfect world I'd kick the Mexies out, cut the number of Argie and Brazuca teams in half and have a real draw for Copa Sudamericana and not the staged crap we get now.

Only champions and runner ups would play. Should improve the quality of the games.

[argentine soccer fan]

...while Conmebol also gets $$$$$$$$$$$.




That's it in a nutshell, as far as Conmebol's leadership is concerned. If we actually get some good football, that is merely a side effect.

[Argentine Futbol]

I've been the biggest advocate for anti-mexican club in our tournaments but we have to face reality. unfortunately money and tv ratings rules in this world. Mexican commentators are horrible and in matter of fact last night I was flipping thru channels and stop by fox gol Mexico..OMG.. the Mexicans even copy TYCSPORTS programming. They had a guy running around like EL AGUANTE!!!! it was so f**king hilarious. THE fans didn't even know their own or should I say a Copy of our songs. Mexico wants absolutely nothing to do with making the Concacaf more competitve.. absolutely NOTHING. They like it just the way it is and the funny part of it is that they think playing us will make them better. Playing average and youth development argentines. Sorry baby but 99 percent of our best players are in Europe. After 10 years in our tournaments that copa america display was ridiculous. we might as well been playing against Trinidad and Tobago. Beside Chivas and entire lot of mexican clubs have bought their competitiveness. Pachuca bought the Copa Sudamericana. The stata that funny is Pahuca's and the entire mexican clubs for last years Copa libertadores. mexicans players scored 13 goals out of 48 goals score by mexican clubs. a Tally worst than Peru and Venezuela..

[ElDivino]

I've been the biggest advocate for anti-mexican club in our tournaments but we have to face reality. unfortunately money and tv ratings rules in this world. Mexican commentators are horrible and in matter of fact last night I was flipping thru channels and stop by fox gol Mexico..OMG.. the Mexicans even copy TYCSPORTS programming. They had a guy running around like EL AGUANTE!!!! it was so f**king hilarious. THE fans didn't even know their own or should I say a Copy of our songs. Mexico wants absolutely nothing to do with making the Concacaf more competitve.. absolutely NOTHING. They like it just the way it is and the funny part of it is that they think playing us will make them better. Playing average and youth development argentines. Sorry baby but 99 percent of our best players are in Europe. After 10 years in our tournaments that copa america display was ridiculous. we might as well been playing against Trinidad and Tobago. Beside Chivas and entire lot of mexican clubs have bought their competitiveness. Pachuca bought the Copa Sudamericana. The stata that funny is Pahuca's and the entire mexican clubs for last years Copa libertadores. mexicans players scored 13 goals out of 48 goals score by mexican clubs. a Tally worst than Peru and Venezuela..

So basically what your saying is that we're making your teams better when they play our Mexican clubs right ? I didnt kno that Falcao and Ortega were average youth players..damn. You've just opened my eyes argiefutbol..you are wise...:rolleyes: For real though..whats the diffrence like Caturro said, if thier Mexican clubs, mls clubs, hell even Costa rican clubs as long as they play good football ? And IMo, the Mexican clubs have brought good football to the Libertadores and the Sudamericana. And the " they use extranjeros" excuse is void at this point because as ive said before, while they do make a diffrence in the teams, without the Mexican players it wouldnt be the same. Just like if Pachuca didnt have Cacho or Correa they would not have been as successful...anyone that actually knos football can see this, those who think they kno football will disagree.

[Piedraias]

I've been the biggest advocate for anti-mexican club in our tournaments but we have to face reality. unfortunately money and tv ratings rules in this world. Mexican commentators are horrible and in matter of fact last night I was flipping thru channels and stop by fox gol Mexico..OMG.. the Mexicans even copy TYCSPORTS programming. They had a guy running around like EL AGUANTE!!!! it was so f**king hilarious. THE fans didn't even know their own or should I say a Copy of our songs. Mexico wants absolutely nothing to do with making the Concacaf more competitve.. absolutely NOTHING. They like it just the way it is and the funny part of it is that they think playing us will make them better. Playing average and youth development argentines. Sorry baby but 99 percent of our best players are in Europe. After 10 years in our tournaments that copa america display was ridiculous. we might as well been playing against Trinidad and Tobago. Beside Chivas and entire lot of mexican clubs have bought their competitiveness. Pachuca bought the Copa Sudamericana. The stata that funny is Pahuca's and the entire mexican clubs for last years Copa libertadores. mexicans players scored 13 goals out of 48 goals score by mexican clubs. a Tally worst than Peru and Venezuela..


mexican clubs are among the best in your little tourneys so i don't know what weed you're smoking. we don't play down there to improve but to play clubs slightly better than mls... which doesn't necessarily mean they are better than us.

chivas has never had a s.merican player, ever, and they've done plenty damage down there so there goes another of your crap points.

... oh and of course the foreign players in our league are better than the average mexican player... why else would we hire them? i don't see the point in hiring mediocre players from argieland.

pachuca bought la sudamericana? with what money? they don't even have fans.

[Argentine Futbol]

So basically what your saying is that we're making your teams better when they play our Mexican clubs right ? I didnt kno that Falcao and Ortega were average youth players..damn. You've just opened my eyes argiefutbol..you are wise...:rolleyes: For real though..whats the diffrence like Caturro said, if thier Mexican clubs, mls clubs, hell even Costa rican clubs as long as they play good football ? And IMo, the Mexican clubs have brought good football to the Libertadores and the Sudamericana. And the " they use extranjeros" excuse is void at this point because as ive said before, while they do make a diffrence in the teams, without the Mexican players it wouldnt be the same. Just like if Pachuca didnt have Cacho or Correa they would not have been as successful...anyone that actually knos football can see this, those who think they kno football will disagree.


I mean no offense. I can't stand to watch Mexican futbol but I can barely watch 90 minutes of Italian futbol. Ortega is done, on his last batteries and falcao is a young upcoming star. You think playing against these players will make you better? either you are a futbol nation or not. Easy Question.. You can't buy futbol culture, tradition and class but you can buy competitiveness. You can be Spain all you want. playing against the best players in the world will not make the local players World Class. "They use of extranjeros" is not an excuse but a FACT. You can take all of pachuca foreigners and stick them in any Club in South america and they would be competitive. No mexican footballer from Pachuca scored after the Quarter-Finals in the CopaSud! and that's THE big difference. Who scored all the goals in the final against COLO-COLO? That's "THE" big difference!!! If that was Omar Bravo or any other Mexican footballer, he would have shanked those balls to Vina del Mar...Buying players to do what HISTORICALLY you have never been able to do...score goals in crucial moments is called bought competitiveness..or has mexico historically produced goal scoring machine after goal scoring machine??? What's the difference between great football nations and the rest of the world? Ask Pachuca, they bought it. And the fact that mexicans footballers scored 13 goals out of 48 goals in the last Copa Libertadores is proof. Didn't Cabanas score more goals than all the mexican footballer on all team combined?? The only reason you are competitive is because of us and they still ran commercial with "PACHUCA ORGULLO MEXICANO". What a joke.. Now why doesn't the mexican club trade all the South americans players for Central american players and prove me wrong.? anyone that actually knows football can see this, those who think they know football will disagree.

[Argentine Futbol]

mexican clubs are among the best in your little tourneys so i don't know what weed you're smoking. we don't play down there to improve but to play clubs slightly better than mls... which doesn't necessarily mean they are better than us. .

Than why participate. If our tournaments are little than what in the world does that make your tourneys? Between Arg-Braz-uru we have more World cups than all the other confederations combined yet Mexico is better? and I'm the one smoking weed!



chivas has never had a s.merican player, ever, and they've done plenty damage down there so there goes another of your crap hanpoints..

True but Chivas has the best mexicans players. How many National team players does chivas have? 4-5-6? and how many on average does a South american have? if they are lucky- one?? and if the almighty chivas causes so much damage than WHY DOESN'T CHIVAS WIN THE MEXICAN TITLE EVERY YEAR? instead they lose it to South american packed club that are not good enough for the European market.


... oh and of course the foreign players in our league are better than the average mexican player... why else would we hire them? i don't see the point in hiring mediocre players from argieland.

pachuca bought la sudamericana? with what money? they don't even have fans.

you siad it, I didn't

[Panfilo]

I mean no offense. I can't stand to watch Mexican futbol but I can barely watch 90 minutes of Italian futbol. Ortega is done, on his last batteries and falcao is a young upcoming star. You think playing against these players will make you better? either you are a futbol nation or not. Easy Question.. You can't buy futbol culture, tradition and class but you can buy competitiveness. You can be Spain all you want. playing against the best players in the world will not make the local players World Class. "They use of extranjeros" is not an excuse but a FACT. You can take all of pachuca foreigners and stick them in any Club in South america and they would be competitive.

Chaco Gimenez did jack squat while on my team (Club America). Damian Alvarez didn't shine in Morelia. Chitiva basically came to Mexico when he was young (19) and grown and basically became a very good professional in Mexico. Aquivaldo was not that heralded in his country till he started to play in Pachuca. Other than Calero none of these guys were heralded back in their countries.

Pachuca bought competent pros and they built a good team with the Mexican players they had. They didn't buy anything, these guys were not exactly lighting it up in their previous teams.




No mexican footballer from Pachuca scored after the Quarter-Finals in the CopaSud! and that's THE big difference. Who scored all the goals in the final against COLO-COLO? That's "THE" big difference!!! If that was Omar Bravo or any other Mexican footballer, he would have shanked those balls to Vina del Mar...Buying players to do what HISTORICALLY you have never been able to do...score goals in crucial moments is called bought competitiveness..or has mexico historically produced goal scoring machine after goal scoring machine??? What's the difference between great football nations and the rest of the world? Ask Pachuca, they bought it. And the fact that mexicans footballers scored 13 goals out of 48 goals in the last Copa Libertadores is proof. Didn't Cabanas score more goals than all the mexican footballer on all team combined?? The only reason you are competitive is because of us and they still ran commercial with "PACHUCA ORGULLO MEXICANO". What a joke.. Now why doesn't the mexican club trade all the South americans players for Central american players and prove me wrong.? anyone that actually knows football can see this, those who think they know football will disagree.

Like I said before Pachuca was a well built team. Gimenez and Cacho (Mexican) were the leading scorers during their run. But if you had to pick the most important player for Pachuca it would have been Correa (Mexican) who shut down the star player for their opposition. He made Mati Fernandez his bitch.

As for the goalscorers Cabanas has played decently for my team. But all Americanistas can tell you that he has choked when it comes to big games.

Most of the foreign players who play in Mexico are good solid buys. Some of them NT material for their countries. Its not the only reason Mexican teams are competitive though.

If that were the case the Mexican NT wouldn't be competitive in Copa America right? It wouldn't have an all time winning record against every southamerican country not named Brazil or Argentina? Right?