U.S. Backline: Up For Grabs

[TimB4Last]

Ridge Mahoney in Soccer America ...

http://www.socceramerica.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=23725

AFTER WINNING THE Gold Cup, the U.S. conceded 13 goals while losing five straight games in the Copa America and against Sweden and Brazil in friendlies. Yet the defeats did serve the purposes of Coach Bob Bradley, who is testing veterans as well as young players to upgrade the backline.

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An interesting mix of analysis and old quotes - some months old - but this article is really just a jumping off point. With only two friendlies remaining this year, have any of our 'backline' questions been answered? What should we be looking for in the next two matches? Which players merit a closer look?

[sidefootsitter]

Said Bradley of the Sweden and Brazil performances, "The Sweden game, the first half was a solid enough effort. Second half was not good. The first half vs. Sweden was good?

When they gave up two breakaways to Zlatan and an open shot from the top of the box to Kallstrom?

Was Bob watching the same game I was?

Today [against Brazil], we were pretty solid for 90 minutes. Aside of 4 goals allowed.

I hear Detroit was pretty solid against Philadelphia too.

"When you play against Brazil, there's Afonso, Kaka, Ronaldinho, Robinho. The way those four move around and, at the right times, the way Maicon and Gilberto come forward, your challenge is to keep track of a lot of things at the same time. It's a little bit like the shell game; they keep moving things around and they wait for you to go for the wrong shell. Yes ... and the (West) Germans did this in 1972. I can understand why the Soviets were surprised ... in 1972 ... twice.

But that was 35 years ago.

You'd think that by 2007, a good coach would adapt.

Of course, Bob has never seen this in MLS.

Which brings up Gulati and his reasons for thinking Bob is the right coach.

[Adam Zebrowski]

BB has a group of very similar central defenders, all who do some things well and some things poorly...

the complete american central defender is NOT available...

so depending on match-ups with the other guys, i could see guys get rotated...

basically, conrad, bocanegra, onyewu form the core, with demerit, on the outside looking in...

the willingness to trust parkhurst against international sides is an area where i think improvement can occur, but BB is being cautious here, perhaps too much so....

i don't see sudden changes from the current core group....scream about it, but it won't happen...

[Tonerl]

I think the ridiculous "chase the ball" tactics in central midfield come squarely into play, as well, when discussing the defensive record and Bob's "system."

[Adam Zebrowski]

isn't "chase the ball" another phrase for "applying defensive pressure"??

i do think the ability for an american midfield to hold the ball, work it around and apply an attacking style will change the nature of having guys who chase the ball...

but usa isn't quite there yet against the elites of the world, hence, by default, you lack the ball, and need to be chasing it....

changing this is the BIGGEST obstacle facing american soccer....and it'll come when numbers of skilled , techical player of sufficient quality emerge...

not this wc cycle, but it's getting closer

[Martin Fischer]

The first half vs. Sweden was good?

When they gave up two breakaways to Zlatan and an open shot from the top of the box to Kallstrom?

Was Bob watching the same game I was?

Aside of 4 goals allowed.

I hear Detroit was pretty solid against Philadelphia too.

Yes ... and the (West) Germans did this in 1972. I can understand why the Soviets were surprised ... in 1972 ... twice.

But that was 35 years ago.

You'd think that by 2007, a good coach would adapt.

Of course, Bob has never seen this in MLS.

Which brings up Gulati and his reasons for thinking Bob is the right coach.

No, it brings up the question of whether you are deliberately trying to provoke or are just plain .... . Anyway, the theory is nothing new in how Brazil plays -- it's the skill and ability and execution of the players that makes it a challenge for the USMNT, regardless of whether Capello, Lippi, Hidnink, Arena or Bradley are coaching.

[TrueCrew]

For me, as for others: the central back situation:

1) Top two (right now): Onyewu and Bocanegra
2) Next two: Conrad and DeMerit
3) Chasing Pack: Parkhurst, Califf.
4) Injury Issues: Gibbs, Marshall
5) Youngster: Sturgis
6) Deserves a shot: Eddie Robinson
7) Deserves a look in the middle: Spector

[Tonerl]

isn't "chase the ball" another phrase for "applying defensive pressure"??

No, not necessarily. Looking at the personnel, I think most coaches would have the US center midfield do a lot more shepherding of play, channelling the ball into the central defenders or wherever your numerical advantage lies at any given time. All it means is that unified positional play would be required, in which the CM pair's movements are relative to eachother's, rather than the mindless over-extension that occurs at regular intervals under Bradley.

[Dr.Phil]

I think Boca is the starter and Gooch or Demerit/Parkhurst depending on the team

[CDM76]

No, not necessarily. Looking at the personnel, I think most coaches would have the US center midfield do a lot more shepherding of play, channelling the ball into the central defenders or wherever your numerical advantage lies at any given time. All it means is that unified positional play would be required, in which the CM pair's movements are relative to eachother's, rather than the mindless over-extension that occurs at regular intervals under Bradley.Not certain where I read the quote but this is the next step in the evolution of American soccer (defensively speaking).

Watch Andrea Pirlo play defense.

He never man marks.

He lays back in the passing lane and waits.

Step in and take the pass or close on the player receiving the ball so his only choice is to make the return pass to the original passer.

The attack has been slowed. Runners have lost their timing. Defenders can reposition.

We don't need crazy two-footed tackles at the edge of the box.

Kill the attack at the top of the attacking third and slow the speed of play.

[Maximum Optimal]

No, not necessarily. Looking at the personnel, I think most coaches would have the US center midfield do a lot more shepherding of play, channelling the ball into the central defenders or wherever your numerical advantage lies at any given time. All it means is that unified positional play would be required, in which the CM pair's movements are relative to eachother's, rather than the mindless over-extension that occurs at regular intervals under Bradley.

Actually, only one of our central midfielders is guilty of excessively chasing the ball. But that pot has already been stirred enough.

[Ghost]

I have a hunch that one of hte central defenders in 2010 will be someone we know, and one is going to be someone that we're not thinking of. Don't know who, but that's my hunch.

[gejal01]

Not certain where I read the quote but this is the next step in the evolution of American soccer (defensively speaking).

Watch Andrea Pirlo play defense.

He never man marks.

He lays back in the passing lane and waits.

Step in and take the pass or close on the player receiving the ball so his only choice is to make the return pass to the original passer.

The attack has been slowed. Runners have lost their timing. Defenders can reposition.

We don't need crazy two-footed tackles at the edge of the box.

Kill the attack at the top of the attacking third and slow the speed of play.

Generally I agree with this, however, from a terminology and logic viewpoint I see a contradiction here.
He lays back in the passing lane.....which passing lane??? any overlap takes him out of the play......point is, he is man marking and anticipates a pass to the man he is marking upon which point he charges forward oversteps and either takes the ball or forces an aborted ball release by the attacker and this is where we fall down flat.... to prevent Pirlo from being able to do that, a step or two towards the ball and he can't step in front, instead he runs up your back and loses the ball via freekick......we do not receive the ball by stepping towards it, we invariably wait for it.... WRONG. We have not learned that technique on either side of the ball and until that happens, we will be chasing, chasing, chasing and looking inept. We have a tendency to crowd the ball with numbers, not to maintain strategic marking on anticipated over runs and passing lanes.. that is the technical aspect of Football the current crop of American Coaches cannot seem to grasp..... forgive the rant but that is the way I perceive our current inability to counter any well organized team....

[Tonerl]

I have a hunch that one of hte central defenders in 2010 will be someone we know, and one is going to be someone that we're not thinking of. Don't know who, but that's my hunch.

My money is on a familiar face who hasn't gotten a look in the middle yet. I think it'll be one of Bocanegra and Onyewu to go alongside Spector.

[Tonerl]

Actually, only one of our central midfielders is guilty of excessively chasing the ball. But that pot has already been stirred enough.

Well, for sure two have done that (including the one you mention and Mastroeni). Looking at the reward that has earned those two players, I am inferring that Bob wants his center mids to do it that way. I have a pet theory that this is Bob's justification for keeping Feilhaber in the third option slot and for losing Clark's phone number.

[AngryMobRun]

Wow, the backline certainly is up for grabs. What does bigsoccer think of these questions:

Is Cherundolo going to be too old to play RB in 2010? - Thirty isnt that bad, but he seemed a litte gassed last wc after the bundesliga season. Will he be abe to handle it at 30? Same thing with Boca, 30 might just be too old. At least if we plan on playin 6 or 7 games in '10.

Should BB test spector at left back? Afterall, I blame Pearce for one of the goals when Germany beat us 4-1. and Bornstein has his disadvantages. Not only that, but Pearce isnt even starting for his club team as of late.

IMO, Conrad should be left out of the eqation. Despite his outstanding performance in '06, He'll be over 30, we all know what happened to Pope when he turned 31. (Thanks a lot Bruce for letting England defeat us, I started noticing his decline during wcq.)

Gooch...so many cards. I remember back in the day when Marshall was out f-ing standing, maybe he stands a chance. Parkhurst, on the other hand, well, word around here, is that he's much better against the Wayne Rooney type while Gooch gets to take on Luca Toni. Then again, maybe it's just BS.


Anyways, these questions have been plagueing me for quite some while. It'd be great to get some feedback. And if your'e gonna flame me for not respecting the elders, whatever:rolleyes:

[cleansheetbsc]

With only two friendlies remaining this year, have any of our 'backline' questions been answered? What should we be looking for in the next two matches?

Can't we find 3 decent defenders to play with Johnathan Bornstein?

[TimB4Last]

Wow, the backline certainly is up for grabs. What does bigsoccer think of these questions:

Is Cherundolo going to be too old to play RB in 2010? - Thirty isnt that bad, but he seemed a litte gassed last wc after the bundesliga season. Will he be abe to handle it at 30? Same thing with Boca, 30 might just be too old. At least if we plan on playin 6 or 7 games in '10.

Should BB test spector at left back? Afterall, I blame Pearce for one of the goals when Germany beat us 4-1. and Bornstein has his disadvantages. Not only that, but Pearce isnt even starting for his club team as of late.

IMO, Conrad should be left out of the equation. Despite his outstanding performance in '06, He'll be over 30, we all know what happened to Pope when he turned 31. (Thanks a lot Bruce for letting England defeat us, I started noticing his decline during wcq.)

Gooch...so many cards. I remember back in the day when Marshall was out f-ing standing, maybe he stands a chance. Parkhurst, on the other hand, well, word around here, is that he's much better against the Wayne Rooney type while Gooch gets to take on Luca Toni. Then again, maybe it's just BS.

Anyways, these questions have been plagueing me for quite some while. It'd be great to get some feedback. And if your'e gonna flame me for not respecting the elders, whatever:rolleyes:

Far from being flame-worthy, I think your post hits (a least) a few nail(s) on the head.

I think we are stacked in midfield - stacked being of course a relative term. Here, I mean that Bradley has plenty of options (to mix and match). It remains to be seen whether he can sort out these options, but - admitting to some optimistic projection - I am feeling pretty good about midfield.

Up front I'd like to see Altidore (with Adu floating behind him), but I don't think we can play Altidore every minute of every game.* If Cooper comes on strong; if Ching stays healthy; or maybe if we can just push Dempsey further and further forward - I don't care much for any of these options - we have a lot of ifs, but we need to identify a quality back-up for Altidore. **

It's the back line that should give us serious cause for concern, though. Many posters, for example, will argue that between Bornstein and Pearce at LB, we are 'all set.' But what if - as you have noted - the answer is 'neither/none of the above?' Many would call Dolo 'automatic' at RB, but what if time and injuries have taken their toll (by 2010). And who is #2 behind Dolo right now?

Finally, our biggest concern is right there in central defense, finding the right pairing. I would like to see Parkhurst get much more playing time, but he may well need to be matched with a taller, faster, more physical central defender. I think Gooch will be on the roster to fulfill a specific need, but we have to take a look at some other options.

One problem we kick around every so often is that in some senses we need to build two teams: one to run roughshod over weaker CONCACAF teams during WCQ; and a distinct WC Finals team capable of preventing the world's elite teams from running roughshod over us.

There will be substantial overlap, no doubt, but it's easy enough to see how a player might help get us through WCQ (Pope, last cycle; Conrad {perhaps} this cycle) but fall by the wayside before the Finals. Let's hope that Bradley has a better sense of this than Arena did, and more allowance is made - not just for fading {favored} players - but for {less-experienced young} players stating a strong case for themselves as the end of the cycle draws near.

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* If our goal is to hoist the WC, which it should be.

** Actually, if Altidore is hurt/unavailable, my plan is to diplomatically withdraw from the WC Finals and allow a goal-worthy team to take our place.

[Martin Fischer]

No, not necessarily. Looking at the personnel, I think most coaches would have the US center midfield do a lot more shepherding of play, channelling the ball into the central defenders or wherever your numerical advantage lies at any given time. All it means is that unified positional play would be required, in which the CM pair's movements are relative to eachother's, rather than the mindless over-extension that occurs at regular intervals under Bradley.

Right, Bradley doesn't know that "mindless over-extension" is bad. Personally, I don't think any of our center mids play like that. Like all center mids, they occassionally overcommit.

[sidefootsitter]

6) Deserves a shot: Eddie Robinson
7) Deserves a look in the middle: Spector... Eddie Robinson, at the present, just might have the best cumulative size+speed+strength ratio of any US defender.

And he did very well at Superliga matches for Dynamo and is likely to be a better companion for Bocanegra than Onyewu.