Charlton - a colossus with no swagger

[Dark Savante]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/09/15/sfnmot115.xml

Sir Bobby Charlton is part of the national furniture. That famous bald head and those firecracker boots, the cultural history of England would be incomplete without them. He has taken his colossal place, quite extraordinarily, in the great and terrible seminal moments in the history of English football. The Munich air crash, England winning the World Cup, Manchester United's first victory in the European Cup, playing alongside George Best, and yet there is not an ounce of swagger in him.

click link and read on.

Might buy his book meself. He's not often rated as he should be by our own fans as he didn't have the charisma of Law or Best, and he's kind of mentioned in that triumverate as a 'given' rather than a player celebrated as an individual from the three.

I'm not even sure you could say Best was better than Charlton, but rather, different and equally brilliant at what he did. But if you read any poll asking who is the best it's always Edwards and Best, with Charlton hardly considered, which is bizarre if you think about it. I've been fortunte enough to see a fair amount of Charlton's games for club and country and have to say he was incredible at what he did and his technique is so understated that it's unreal.

This paragraph: His United career spanned three decades, 1956-1973, and in all that time he never even pulled a hamstring. "I don't know what it feels like. I once had a swollen ankle after kicking a ball at the same time as a lad called Keith Marsden in a City versus United reserve game, but that was it."

is quite breathtaking. How can you not have a single injury through 17 years of playing the game at the highest level??

Thought I'd post it here beings as I had it saved in my favourites for over a week and forgot about it.

[Achtung]

Link above doesn't seem to work. Try this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/09/15/sfnmot115.xml

[Achtung]

is quite breathtaking. How can you not have a single injury through 17 years of playing the game at the highest level??

Never booked either I believe, although I guess bookings worked differently prior to the introduction of yellow and red cards. Still an amazing accomplishment.

[Dark Savante]

Link above doesn't seem to work. Try this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml?xml=/sport/2007/09/15/sfnmot115.xml
ta :)
Never booked either I believe, although I guess bookings worked differently prior to the introduction of yellow and red cards. Still an amazing accomplishment.

Back in those days you actually had gentlemen on the pitch. Polite chaps with no cynicism, rudeness or cheating/diving in their game. I don't think you see many of those around anymore. Dissent is rife now.

Players like Matthews and Charlton, even Lineker in the 80's were a different breed of player.

[TomClare]

Never booked either I believe, although I guess bookings worked differently prior to the introduction of yellow and red cards. Still an amazing accomplishment.


He was booked, but only on a couple of occasions.

[sherer]

my favourite player and a gent on and off the pitch, although i;m still trying to find out what's going on between him and Jack, read they aren't talking at the moment.

Something i'm trying to find is does anyone have season by season stats for Charlton showing starts and goals ?

[sdotsom]

For some of the old heads:

I was talking to a few old United fans that run the "pub" I watch footy at on Sundays. They were discussing what they thought Bobby Charlton's best position on the pitch was. I wasn't too aware of this, but apparently Charlton played on the left wing for 3 or 4 years at the beginning of the 60's, and one fella was of the belief that it was his best position.

The other guys, and my position as well, was that his role as a playmaker with Crerand in midfield was the best - the glut of his trophies came at that position. I'm basing my opinion of the few games of his I've been able to download/watch.

Any opinions?

[Motterman]

Happy Birthday Sir Bobby!

[MyHouse!]

Happy Birthday Sir Bobby!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/38/123344192_19f498dbf8.jpg

[jammybastard]

Just picked up the definitive account...
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ie8nDxyTL._AA240_.jpg

Sir Bobby on Parkinson last week...a must watch...

http://www.divshare.com/download/2568218-bcd

[comme]

When I saw him on Parkinson I wondered if was OK. His hands seemed to be shaking quite alot.

I wondered if he might be ill with something?

[Dark Savante]

When I saw him on Parkinson I wondered if was OK. His hands seemed to be shaking quite alot.

I wondered if he might be ill with something?

He's had really bad shakes for at least the last 3yrs. Wondered if he had Parkinsons for a while myself. Apparently he suffers really bad with nerves as well, which wouldn't have helped on a TV show dedicated to him.

[sdotsom]

Just picked up the definitive account...
http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/51ie8nDxyTL._AA240_.jpg

Sir Bobby on Parkinson last week...a must watch...

http://www.divshare.com/download/2568218-bcd

I'm gonna pick up that book. Thanks for the link.

[sdotsom]

May I ask where you got the book jammy? I'm on Amazon and they're telling me 4-6 weeks till it ships..

[jammybastard]

never, ever use Amazon.com for things like this it will take forever and you'll get a crap price.

Use their UK based arm, www.amazon.co.uk, because they have everything you'll want plus you can get alot of it cheaper than list via their huge selection of wholesalers.
I got my copy for 10 pounds less than the Amazon.co.uk list because it is supposedly *used*. Looks perfect to me.

Good luck, and let me know if you need any help.

[sdotsom]

Cheers.

Yah, I was referring to Amazon.uk in my post, sorry:o. It really was just the shipping time. I instead went to a website called Alibris that I usually get my textbooks from, and bought a copy from a bookseller 4 hours away by car. Hoping to get it today or tomorrow, I really want to get into it.

[Gregoriak]

For some of the old heads:

I was talking to a few old United fans that run the "pub" I watch footy at on Sundays. They were discussing what they thought Bobby Charlton's best position on the pitch was. I wasn't too aware of this, but apparently Charlton played on the left wing for 3 or 4 years at the beginning of the 60's, and one fella was of the belief that it was his best position.

The other guys, and my position as well, was that his role as a playmaker with Crerand in midfield was the best - the glut of his trophies came at that position. I'm basing my opinion of the few games of his I've been able to download/watch.

Any opinions?

Regarding the positions Bobby Charlton played in:

In his first three games for England, he played as inside right. In his first two games he left a brilliant impression but then was dropped after England got humiliated 0-5 by Yugoslavia. Peter Broadbent and Bobby Robson took over his position at inside right at the 1958 World Cup with Bobby Charlton sitting on the bench. After the 1958 World Cup he was used as a center forward in a couple of games but then at the start of the 1959-60 season he picked up the outside left position. This would remain his standard position for England right up to the 1964-65 season. Bobby Charlton wasn't really happy about his role in the England team in the early 1960s. At United, he had moved from outside left to a central midfield position after the loss of Duncan Edwards, a position which much more suited his nature than that of outside left. In 1964 and 1965, he even was dropped from the national side because his performances at the left wing were questioned! Luckily for England, Alf Ramsey experimented with Bobby Charlton as withdrawn center forward and quasi-playmaker in the season leading to the 1966 World Cup.

I personally prefer him as a midfield playmaker. One of the greatest footballers ever and arguably the most underrated of all all-time greats.

[Gregoriak]

my favourite player and a gent on and off the pitch, although i;m still trying to find out what's going on between him and Jack, read they aren't talking at the moment.

Something i'm trying to find is does anyone have season by season stats for Charlton showing starts and goals ?


ROBERT CHARLTON


Born: 11 October 1937 in Ashington (Northumberland).

Nickname: Bobby.

Position: Left wing, inside forward.

Caps:
England 105 (1958-1970) / 49 goals

League Games:
England 607 (1956-1973) / 197 goals

Domestic Cup Games:
English Cup, 67 (1957-1973) / 20 goals

European Cup Games:
46 (1956-1969) / 22 goals

European Footballer of the Year: 1960 (7th), 1961 (10th), 1963 (8th), 1965 (5th), 1966 (winner), 1967 (2nd), 1968 (2nd)

English Footballer of the Year: 1966 (Sport Writers “Footballer of the Year”), 1973 (Professional Football Association`s “Footballer of the Year”)

Trophies & Tournaments:
World Cup winner : 1966
World Cup participation: 1958*, 1962, 1966, 1970
European Championship: 1968 (3rd)
European Champions Cup-Winner: 1968
European Champions Cup finalist: -
European Cup Winners Cup: -
European Cup Winners Cup-finalist: -
UEFA/Fairs-Cup Finalist: -
World Club Cup winner: -
English Champion: 1957, 1965, 1967
English runner-up: 1959, 1964, 1968
English Cup winner: 1963
English Cup finalist: 1957, 1958
Top League Goal Scorer: never

*did not play


Season - Club - Games – Goals – [Caps / Goals]

1956/57 Manchester United....................14 / 10
1957/58 Manchester United....................21 / 08 [ 3 / 3 ]
1958/59 Manchester United....................38 / 29 [ 8 / 8 ]
1959/60 Manchester United....................37 / 17 [ 6 / 2 ]
1960/61 Manchester United....................39 / 21 [ 9 / 8 ]
1961/62 Manchester United....................37 / 07 [12 / 4 ]
1962/63 Manchester United....................29 / 07 [ 6 / 5 ]
1963/64 Manchester United....................40 / 09 [ 9 / 3 ]
1964/65 Manchester United....................41 / 10 [ 3 / 1 ]
1965/66 Manchester United....................38 / 16 [16 / 6 ]
1966/67 Manchester United....................42 / 12 [ 4 / 1 ]
1967/68 Manchester United....................41 / 15 [ 9 / 5 ]
1968/69 Manchester United....................32 / 05 [ 9 / 1 ]
1969/70 Manchester United....................40 / 12 [11 / 2 ]
1970/71 Manchester United....................42 / 05
1971/72 Manchester United....................40 / 08
1972/73 Manchester United....................36 / 06
1973/74 ......................….....did not play
1974/75 Preston North End......III. Div



International Club Games

1956/57 Manchester United......ECI..........01 / 01
1957/58 Manchester United......ECI..........02 / 03
1963/64 Manchester United......ECII.........05 / 04
1964/65 Manchester United......Fairs-Cup..11 / 08
1965/66 Manchester United......ECI..........08 / 02
1967/68 Manchester United......ECI..........11 / 02
1968/69 Manchester United......ECI..........08 / 02

[sdotsom]

Thanks for the stats.

I'm hoping the book will have arrived in the post today, I'm looking forward to getting into his autobiography. There is a 2nd part coming out next year, with the main focus on England.

[sdotsom]

Just got the Charlton book. It's a great read so far - but it also makes me sad that I never saw Duncan Edwards. Only 6 chapters into the book, and Edwards has been described/praised non stop!