Lukas Podolski

[Duncan Idaho]

The fact that Mertesacker is better than all Bayern CB's combined would be the only reason, despite that, there really is no reason...:rolleyes:

typical German bias

[Dagegen]

It's called the Truth.

You are as biased as I am, no probably more, the way you are posting.

No reason to go for Mertesacker?
You got to be kidding!
Even if you disagree with my opinion, you got to admit that Mertesacker is a very good and still young cb, it's not that only germans think/know that.

[Duncan Idaho]

It's called the Truth.

ok, that argument killed me!


You are as biased as I am, no probably more, the way you are posting.

I'm able to judge players without emotional, national or club perspective in mind


No reason to go for Mertesacker?

Dude, you may better take at our goal difference and our goals conceded. Additionally you may take a look at our roster featuring 4 proven and experienced CBs and 2 young talents are already in the pipeline. We obviously have a ********ing need for another CB! :rolleyes:


You got to be kidding!

Of course, Mr Truthteller!


Even if you disagree with my opinion, you got to admit that Mertesacker is a very good and still young cb, it's not that only germans think/know that.

Maybe you show me first the sentence in this thread in which I denied that, but I can assure you may have trouble finding. Additionally you may start think about the greater picture that consist of the words needs, costs, age structure and perspective and then, yeah maybe then even you might understand there is really no reason except German bias like this

The fact that Mertesacker is better than all Bayern CB's combined would be the only reason

Better than Lucio? Yes! Better than Demichelis? Especially this season! Better than Lucio, Demichelis van Buyten, Ismael and Hummels melted into a single player? Hell yes, no need to think twice!

But I have to ask, do you mind me asking where you are taking our facts from? Cause it must be damn good source of jokes. Besides that I can argue without yelling "truth" and "fact" around without a sinlge proof, can you?

[Dagegen]

I could probably answer your rant with another rant, but that would be wasted time, so I try to do it not as emotional as your post.
(Why did you get so worked up about my rather inoffensive post anyway?)
:confused:

ok, that argument killed me!

I never intended to kill you.

I'm able to judge players without emotional, national or club perspective in mind

No you aren't.
Nobody is, there isn't one unbiased human.
To think that you are able to judge players totally free of emotions, sympathy, national or club perspective is either very arrogant or very stupid.

Dude, you may better take at our goal difference and our goals conceded. Additionally you may take a look at our roster featuring 4 proven and experienced CBs and 2 young talents are already in the pipeline. We obviously have a ********ing need for another CB! :rolleyes:

No, dude.
There is no need to take a look(you probably meant that, right?)at your goal difference, your goals conceded or your roster.
There is no need to do that, because you said that there is absolutely no reason for going for Mertesacker.
And that is what I was negating because it is simply wrong.
I tell you a few reasons:
1.Mertesacker is a very good cb, in my opinion better than the Bayern cb's but it is no problem if you disagree, because the point would still stand, he is a good player.
2.Mertesacker is way younger than your first team cb's.(no that doesn't include Mats Hummels)
3.Buying Mertesacker would weaken a direct competitor.(You may say that this isn't the idea of Bayern's transfers, but it is still a reason.)
4.Hoeness once said that he wants Bayern to have a lot of german national team players, Mertesacker is one of them.
5.Last season the Bayern defence wasn't very solid(for Bayerns measures), in this season it is looking much better until now, but the cb's haven't changed so I believe this is due to the great defensive work that the more offensive players, Klose, Ribery and especially Zé Roberto together with MvB do.
I still believe Bayern's CB's aren't good enough for a team that wants to win the CL(not this season obviously, but next for sure).

So your statement that there is no reason to go for Mertesacker was wrong.

But I appreciate that you finally tried to make a clinical(sachlich) point instead of ranting all the time.




Maybe you show me first the sentence in this thread in which I denied that, but I can assure you may have trouble finding. Additionally you may start think about the greater picture that consist of the words needs, costs, age structure and perspective and then, yeah maybe then even you might understand there is really no reason except German bias like this

You didn't deny it directly, but you said:
there is absolutely no reason for going for Mertesacker. Any Bayern fan expressing that wish may watch some Bremen games to rethink this wish

So, you think that Bayernfans wouldn't want Mertesacker anymore if they watch him play for Bremen?

Why?

Obviously you think they would rethink their wish because (you think) he isn't playing very well, otherwise your sentence wouldn't make any sense.
That really does seem that you believe Mertesacker is not a very good player.

And no, there is no need to think about the greater picture, as I already explained.(see above)

Better than Lucio? Yes! Better than Demichelis?

In my opinion, yes he is.
You obviously think he isn't despite you being the only human that isn't biased at all, sure.

Better than Lucio, Demichelis van Buyten, Ismael and Hummels melted into a single player? Hell yes, no need to think twice!

That was exaggerated, because I wanted to state my opinion in a casual way.
And it was blistering obvious, you simply harp on about it, because you seemingly want to rant instead of staying cool and answering in a decent manner.(see the following)

But I have to ask, do you mind me asking where you are taking our facts from? Cause it must be damn good source of jokes. Besides that I can argue without yelling "truth" and "fact" around without a sinlge proof, can you?

You can argue without yelling "truth" and "fact"?

You can't argue without yelling at all, it seems.
There are no clinical proofs in an internet discussion about soccer, it's not math.

I stated my opinion and you should simply get over it or tell me that you disagree without giving me names like Mr Truthteller or calling my arguments good jokes, that's childish.

But we are off topic, i think, so I think we can as well simply agree to disagree, you don't even have to answer unless you really feel the need to do it.

[Duncan Idaho]

I never intended to kill you.

and you never intended to deliver a argument, instead you were yelling "truth" "fact"



No you aren't.
Nobody is, there isn't one unbiased human.

You have no clue what I can do and what I can not do


To think that you are able to judge players totally free of emotions, sympathy, national or club perspective is either very arrogant or very stupid.

Thanks for the compliment, but I only see your own ignorance, so I must return the favor



No, dude.
There is no need to take a look(you probably meant that, right?)at your goal difference, your goals conceded or your roster.

No? But why the hell are you claiming that there is a reason for buying Mertesacker? According your reasoning buying a player must have nothing to do with the current players you already have, with their current form and with other things like costs etc.


There is no need to do that, because you said that there is absolutely no reason for going for Mertesacker.

But I can back up my argumentation, you obviously can't. To make it simply for you

- Bayern hasn't lost a game (in a competition, friendlies don't count) so far
- Bayern has conceded only 3 (+ 1 goal in the german cup) goals so far
- Bayern has 4 CB of international quality
- Bayern has two CB talents in the pipeline (so there is no age structure problem)



And that is what I was negating because it is simply wrong.
I tell you a few reasons:
1.Mertesacker is a very good cb, in my opinion better than the Bayern cb's but it is no problem if you disagree, because the point would still stand, he is a good player.

invalid point, since what you do think is completely inane. Even in accepting your point you would be in the need to deliver "facts" (e.g. game statistics like won duels per game in %) to proof the significant improvement that a mertesacker would be to our current CBs. Problem four here is that isn't much to say against Bayern's defence right now as our goals conceded indicate and since it is no my job to back up your argumentation I will present only one other opinion regarding this matter, the kicker defender rating so far

http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/topspieler/saison/2007-08/topspieler_position/2/topspieler_verein/0

I usually prefer game statistics, but this simple rating does the job too, since both starting Cbs at Bayern are rated higher than Mertesacker and therefore there can't be a huge - assuming kicker's judgement is wrong - difference in the capacity of these three defenders that can financially - the most important reason in this business - justify buying Mertesacker



2.Mertesacker is way younger than your first team cb's.(no that doesn't include Mats Hummels)

Mertesacker is 23, Demichelis is 26, Lucio is 29 as is van Buyten too, the only defender over 30 at Bayern is Ismael and the replacements for Ismael are already in place with Hummels and Kopplin, two players that beat Mertesacker of course.

As I already said much earlier there is no age problem at Bayern, Demichelis has still 8 years to play top level football, whereas Lucio and van Buyten have still 5 years in them. As AC Milan lately showed my are assumptions are certainly not off the mark. Even capacity-wise all three Bayern defenders have yet to reach their top level, which makes the cost-performance question regarding Merteascker even more absurd, since Bremen certainly won't let him go for a sum under 10 Mio Euro


3.Buying Mertesacker would weaken a direct competitor.(You may say that this isn't the idea of Bayern's transfers, but it is still a reason.)

Oh, what an argument! You make an argument and in the same time you make my response obsolete, cuase it is a reason not matter what I will say. That's proper argumentation strategy :rolleyes:

But I'm so kind I will tell you what the main reason to sign players is, it is to strenghten your own squad. But there porblem here is that there is nothing to strenghten as any immediate improvement with Merteascker over e.g. Demichelis is not only questionable and financially not a sound business strategy.

Your weaken argument is failing at the transfer fee, which is nothing else than a compensation. The german expression "Entschädigung" vis even better cause it clearly shows from the word origin that it has nothing to with weakinging or damage. As past transer have shown is that Bayern always made fair - mostly even overpaid - compensations regarding their Bundesliga transfers. When the selling clubs - actually they do it because they want to sell, they are not forced - can't use the transfer fee wisely that I clearly is not Bayern's problem and it makes your point even more absurd, since "the weakening" - if there is even any - is caused by improper scouting, buying and signing policy.


4.Hoeness once said that he wants Bayern to have a lot of german national team players, Mertesacker is one of them.

Oh, huge point! :D

Let me remind you that Bayern already has 6 current german national team players. a former long term german national team player, plus Bayern has even several potential german national team (Rensing, Kroos just to namethe more obvious) in their roster. And I don't need to talk about national teams players of other countries. So we really have the killer argument for Mertesacker, that makes any business, financial or sportal reason obsolete


5.Last season the Bayern defence wasn't very solid(for Bayerns measures), in this season it is looking much better until now, but the cb's haven't changed so I believe this is due to the great defensive work that the more offensive players, Klose, Ribery and especially Zé Roberto together with MvB do.

Problem for you here is that there are no defense problems right now and you can only give reason for buying another CB when there are real problems. So blaming the now non-existent defensive problems on the offensive players sound just like an excuse for the sake of having a valid reason. Let me remind you, how "crappy" Naldo played in his first season for Werder and how much the CB play improved in his second season, since Bremen didn't face a major squad overhaul at that time, it is more than accurate and quite savely to assume that there might be more reason that can improve CB pairings than just a few new players at different positions.



I still believe Bayern's CB's aren't good enough for a team that wants to win the CL(not this season obviously, but next for sure).

But Mertesacker is? I obviously imagine the the 13 goals Bremen already conceded in the Bundesliga and the 5 goals they already gifted away in the CL? Was the CL your main argument your buying Mertesacker? maybe you should rewatch Bremen's two games so far with a special focus at their CB pairing, could be quite an enlightening to your whole argumentation :p


So your statement that there is no reason to go for Mertesacker was wrong.

Really? I you say so! Never had to laugh so much lately


But I appreciate that you finally tried to make a clinical(sachlich) point instead of ranting all the time.


contrary to you, I was arguing all the time and giving you hints, but you obviously understand occasional sarcasm as ranting



You didn't deny it directly, but you said:

you obviously are interpreting something into


So, you think that Bayernfans wouldn't want Mertesacker anymore if they watch him play for Bremen?
Why?

Do Bremens performances this season boost your reasoning or mine? If you have a little bit of reason left in you, than the answer is simple


Obviously you think they would rethink their wish because (you think) he isn't playing very well, otherwise your sentence wouldn't make any sense.
That really does seem that you believe Mertesacker is not a very good player.

You obviously have no clue what you are even talking about, but I make it simple four you. Your whole argumenation is based on the assumption that Mertesacker is the "uber" defender that is better that anything we have at Bayern. My argumenation is based on Mertesacker being just another international quality defender who does not belong in your "super world" class categorization, that he is neither an upgrade to our current defenders and that it is not worth the money. Bremen's current season is illustrating my point perfectly, whereas it is contradicting your point and yet you keep telling me your fantasy dreams? It must be really fun to do so!


And no, there is no need to think about the greater picture, as I already explained.(see above)

I see!

The only problem here is that your explanation is holey and anything else than saddle fast to say it nicely


You obviously think he isn't despite you being the only human that isn't biased at all, sure.

Compared to you I'm certainly the most unbiased person in this argumentation



You can argue without yelling "truth" and "fact"?

You can't argue without yelling at all, it seems.
There are no clinical proofs in an internet discussion about soccer, it's not math.

there may not be clinical proofs, but there enough arguments that surpass your holely reasoning


I stated my opinion and you should simply get over it or tell me that you disagree without giving me names like Mr Truthteller or calling my arguments good jokes, that's childish.

Did I start the whole thing or you? Wasn't it you that made the childish response to my opinion? You were not respecting my opinion, you were thinking your opinion is right and you were - given your reasons above - the one that can't even back his opinion up with proper arguments. Go figure!

[nekkibasara]

Duncan, are you really saying that Hummels and Kopplin are better than a proven defender who is a fixture in the national team at age 23?

Bremen’s overall team is the reason they concede so many goals. Their side backs are horrible and half of their midfield is injured.

As to facts about Mertesacker. He has the highest won tackles percentage of any CB in the Bundesliga and has the fewest fouls. Just because Naldo et al are lacking in quality does not make Mertesacker a poor defender.

Mertesacker also had a won tackles percent in the WC of over 89% with no fouls. He is class and will only get better.

[Dagegen]

Wow, you really seem desperate. :eek:


You have no clue what I can do and what I can not do

Since you are probably a human being(if not, tell me and you have my apologies), I have a lot of clues of what you can do.
Nobody is totally unbiased, not even you.


All the rest bla bla...

All the things you wrote, are unnecessary, because I only disagreed with you saying there is absolutely no reason to go for Mertesacker.
I named you 5 reasons, that's it.

You are wrong in saying there is no reason going for him, I don't care for all the rest, for all your talking about Bayern's defensive qualities, for your tries to let obscure statistics argue for you.

I mean, come on, do you really think that the Kicker-grades of the last few games tell us who the better players are?
If you look up the Kicker-grades of the last years, it would be a decent point, but even than, Kicker-grades don't tell the whole story and I think you know that.

But since you fancy statistics so much, Nekkibasara listed a few, quite impressing ones, in my opinion.

You obviously have no clue what you are even talking about, but I make it simple four you. Your whole argumenation is based on the assumption that Mertesacker is the "uber" defender that is better that anything we have at Bayern.

Oh my whole argumentation is based on the assumption that Mertesacker is the "uber" defender.....?

Your Problem is, I never said that, not even close.
The problem is in your mind, you are obviously thinking things up that I never said.
And that makes it really senseless to discuss anything with you.

The only problem here is that your explanation is holey and anything else than saddle fast to say it nicely

Haha, you really don't want to understand it, do you?
I am not even looking for arguments, I don't need them in this case, because you have already been proven wrong.
You said there is no reason to go for Mertesacker.
Wrong!
I repeat it, I named you a few reasons, everybody else knows there are reasons.
And that's it all about, you simply bigged this argument up with all your distracting talk about Bayern's situation this season.

And one thing, you are always only talking about this moment, this season.
Do you think that the managers in the BuLI are this shortsighted?
A reason for a transfer doesn't has to be in the total presence, often it is more about the future, but you keep ignoring that because you know that this would contradict your points.

there may not be clinical proofs, but there enough arguments that surpass your holely reasoning
Once again, I can tell you that I don't argue or reason, because there is no need for it.

As a matter of fact, there are quite some reasons to go for Mertesacker (there might also be some reasons against going for him, but that is not the point)and that is what I said, because you were saying there is absolutely no reason to go for him.

See, there is no need to reason or to argue for me, perhaps for you, because you don't want to realise that the simple point I made was right.



Did I start the whole thing or you?

Thanks for making it this easy, little Hothead.
This is probably one of the most childish things to say, I was really smiling when I read that. :)
("Aber Mami er hat doch angefangen, er hat mir meine Sandburg kaputt gemacht...")

I didn't quote every single sentence of you, because it would be a waste of time.
And to help you not waste your time I offer you once again that we simply agree to disagree:
I think Mertesacker would strengthen the Bayern defence, you disagree, fine, there is nothing that can prove either side is right.

If you really want to answer something, be it swearing, ranting or calm reasoning, you can as well send me a PM, because I really think this little argument is not nessecary in this thread.
And I still wonder why you are so worked up about it, if I somehow hurt your feelings or something(stranger things happened, I guess), sorry.

Peace