ESPN in bad shape

[mpruitt]

Let me start out by saying that I absolutely love ESPN. I wish they showed more soccer highlihgts, but for the most part have always respected them for their journalistic integrity. But recently with all these ESPN Original Entertainment things, and all the gimics that they've had on Sporstcenter ala "The Hot Seat" or whatever mini game show they were putting on, I've begun to wonder if they've begun to slip a little bit.

Now comes the news that NFL Countdown is getting a few new faces on it. Namely Michael Irving, and Rush Limbaugh. I can almost understand Rush, he could maybe pull off a arch-conservative, not as smart as, George Will type of thing but with football. But Michael Irving??? What's next? Tom Arnold on Baseball Tonight with John Kruk.

These are not good signs for this network.

[alexdergrosse]

Originally posted by maxim-1
Let me start out by saying that I absolutely love ESPN. I wish they showed more soccer highlihgts, but for the most part have always respected them for their journalistic integrity. But recently with all these ESPN Original Entertainment things, and all the gimics that they've had on Sporstcenter ala "The Hot Seat" or whatever mini game show they were putting on, I've begun to wonder if they've begun to slip a little bit.

Now comes the news that NFL Countdown is getting a few new faces on it. Namely Michael Irving, and Rush Limbaugh. I can almost understand Rush, he could maybe pull off a arch-conservative, not as smart as, George Will type of thing but with football. But Michael Irving??? What's next? Tom Arnold on Baseball Tonight with John Kruk.

These are not good signs for this network.

Wait, Rush Limbaugh is okay, but Michael Irving gives you fits? Xenophobes are okay, but cokeheads go to the end of the line? WTF?

[TOTC]

Two wankers. They're out in eight weeks.

[mpruitt]

Originally posted by alexdergrosse
Wait, Rush Limbaugh is okay, but Michael Irving gives you fits? Xenophobes are okay, but cokeheads go to the end of the line? WTF?

It's not who they are as people but what they bring to the table. Rush Limbaugh, whether you like his politics or not is a pretty smart, articulate guy, who apparently knows a lot about football. From news reports he's apparently going to be a weekly columnist type on the show, I'm assuming in the realm of what George Will will sometimes do in Sporstcenter's Voices piece. Also in other venues Will has frequently wrote and talked about sports in America. That's why I made the comparisson to him, there are plenty of people who probably don't like George Will's politics either but find his take on sports interesting.

With Irving, what do you get. A bad dressing, over-laughing, drug addicted, poorly spoken, idiot version of Shannon Sharpe? There should be a rule at ESPN, if Fox Sports has touched it, don't. They've already got Lisa Geurrero on the sidelines, maybe they could just bring JB and Terry into the mix, or at least their claymation figurines.

[QPR Kevin H]

This picking up Irvin and Limbaugh is a double whammy when considering the loss of the excellent Eisen from SC and Parcells from NFL. Nothing they could do about Parcells - but Eisen leaving is a bad sign. There are just some major downsides about working for the mouse/ESPN. But scum like Limbaugh and Irvin will take anything.

[Footer Phooter]

Originally posted by Mike Segroves
Maybe Irvin will come into the studio all coked up and stab Limbaugh.

Now that I would watch.

[sachinag]

Eisen left because they wouldn't put him on their new planned morning show.

And just a reminder, Limbaugh was heavily considered in lieu of Dennis Miller for the three-man MNF booth a few years back. I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I gotta say, he's intelligent, articulate, and entertaining guy.

[Wizardscharter]

Originally posted by sachinag
Eisen left because they wouldn't put him on their new planned morning show.

And just a reminder, Limbaugh was heavily considered in lieu of Dennis Miller for the three-man MNF booth a few years back. Will Limbaugh need a second chair, one for each cheek?

[The Cadaver]

Originally posted by sachinag
Eisen left because they wouldn't put him on their new planned morning show.

And just a reminder, Limbaugh was heavily considered in lieu of Dennis Miller for the three-man MNF booth a few years back. I'm a pretty liberal guy, but I gotta say, he's intelligent, articulate, and entertaining guy.

Where did Rich Eisen go? Has he shown up on another network yet?

Does this mean we will stop seeing those irritating "he got it" ESPN Zone commercials?

[branko97]

Originally posted by The Cadaver
Where did Rich Eisen go? Has he shown up on another network yet?

Does this mean we will stop seeing those irritating "he got it" ESPN Zone commercials?

Eisen is signed up to host an evening show on the NFL's new channel, which is launching in November.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by wizardscharter
Will Limbaugh need a second chair, one for each cheek?

Actually after he married that aerobic instructor he's slimmed down quite a bit apparently...

I think he's funny, smart, provocative and entertaining as heck.

Good move ESPN.

BTW, have the protests/boycotts/bomb threats against ESPN actually started yet? :)

[ElJefe]

What I don't understand is all the hysteria about Michael Irvin being hired for NFL Countdown.

I'm a lifelong Cowboy hater, and I chuckled at all of Irvin's legal troubles a few years ago, but he's done an amazing job of rehabilitating his own career since then. He speaks in a fairly straightforward manner about the "mistakes" that he made, and from what I've seen of his work on NBC's AFL coverage, he's hardly inarticulate.

Now, Rush, on the other hand... I'm not going to attack the guy because I'm on the other end of the spectrum politically, but cripes, didn't anyone learn anything when ABC went down the whole "let's bring in a public figure who's not a football expert but is a big football fan" road with Dennis Miller. I think that by the middle of next season, people will be saying about Rush what they said about Miller: "What's the point of all this?"

[MasterShake29]

ABC actually considered hiring Rush for MNF before they went with Miller.

There's a big difference between the two. I never understood the Miller hiring, because he's a comedian who specializes in references most people won't get, and that's exactly what they got. Plus, they're not hiring Rush to do games, just to be part of a countdown show. That's also a big difference.

Whether or not you agree with him, Rush is a very talented broadcaster who has the most successful radio show ever, and must get listeners from across the political spectrum given his ratings. He doesn't get $30+ million a year for nothing.

He's also a legit football fan. I think if ESPN uses him correctly (may take a few weeks to sort that out) he'll be excellent at it.

[pething101]

Rush, from what I recall, is a huge football fan. He floored ABC with his test tape. He will do a decent job.

Irving. I have never seen him on Fox but my first impression of him is not good.

One thing is pretty much guaranteed. Viewership will go up atleast at first. Whether they can maintain that is another matter.

[MichaelR]

ESPN is quite purposely moving away from its core programming to produce more and more "sports-related entertainment" aimed at its target demographic groups (and less and less actual sports).

MTV pioneered this years ago by producing more and more programming only tangentially related to music but most directly tied in to segments of its audienced.

That's what the ESPYs (an awards show designed to attract women), "The Life" (the urban sports fan) and those godawful made-for-ESPN movies (older audience segments, I guess) are for. For ESPN, it's a process that really begun with the X-Games -- those were, of course, "pseudosports entertainment" designed to acquaint a younger demographic with the network.

The only good thing about this is that there are three other ESPN networks (four when ESPN Deportes gets launched). That means there is a place for niche programming, like soccer. You would think there's a place for international sport on one of those channels. ESPN2, for instance, is generally occupied in the AM by fishing shows. And ESPN Classic cannot be getting ratings by showing 20-year-old college football games. Why not show, live or live-to-tape, events like Golden League athletics (not just the one-hour packages they normally show) and European soccer (Champions League, Dutch Eredivisie) -- stuff they already have the rights to. No marginal cost, but appreciation from a niche audience. Look how much we all love Fox Sports World. And it's not as if Fox is run by philanthropists, or by Uncle Phil.

[Jasonma]

Originally posted by MattBurlew
ABC actually considered hiring Rush for MNF before they went with Miller.

There's a big difference between the two. I never understood the Miller hiring, because he's a comedian who specializes in references most people won't get, and that's exactly what they got.

I must be in the minority in this country, but I LIKED Dennis Miller doing MNF. OF course, I've always liked Dennis Miller, and I actually get most of his references.

[writered21]

ESPN putting Rush on board is very simple. Nothing more than trying to tap into those millions ..... and millions!!! (sorry, couldn't resist) of Rush's radio audience.

Irvin, I don't have an explanation for that one, or a wrestling reference, for that matter. Except that maybe he's a jobroni.

Ed :)

[monster]

I like the Irvin move. Like Jefe said - he has spoken very openly about his past and brings a great perspective to the TV, no matter how much I hated that Fox show.

With Rush, I could give a rat's ass. Except could they stop calling a frigging millionaire with national media exposure "a fan's fan?"

[Dan Loney]

Look, give the commenting job to a diehard Repub fascist if you must, but a kneejerk Pittsburgh Steelers mark?

Hey, genius, your "greatest team in the history of civilization" was punked out of the Super Bowl in one of those years by a Denver Broncos team led by CRAIG F****NG MORTON, all right?

[mpruitt]

Originally posted by MichaelR
ESPN is quite purposely moving away from its core programming to produce more and more "sports-related entertainment" aimed at its target demographic groups (and less and less actual sports).

MTV pioneered this years ago by producing more and more programming only tangentially related to music but most directly tied in to segments of its audienced.

That's what the ESPYs (an awards show designed to attract women), "The Life" (the urban sports fan) and those godawful made-for-ESPN movies (older audience segments, I guess) are for. For ESPN, it's a process that really begun with the X-Games -- those were, of course, "pseudosports entertainment" designed to acquaint a younger demographic with the network.

The only good thing about this is that there are three other ESPN networks (four when ESPN Deportes gets launched). That means there is a place for niche programming, like soccer. You would think there's a place for international sport on one of those channels. ESPN2, for instance, is generally occupied in the AM by fishing shows. And ESPN Classic cannot be getting ratings by showing 20-year-old college football games. Why not show, live or live-to-tape, events like Golden League athletics (not just the one-hour packages they normally show) and European soccer (Champions League, Dutch Eredivisie) -- stuff they already have the rights to. No marginal cost, but appreciation from a niche audience. Look how much we all love Fox Sports World. And it's not as if Fox is run by philanthropists, or by Uncle Phil.

I agree that's exactly what they're doing, but disagree at the benifit. How many people actually say, "Man, I really like MTV now that they don't show any videos, it's so much better." I understand with 500 channel satellite or cable systems it's easy to get MTV2 as well, but that's just more cost for the average consumer, something they undoubtably have in mind as well. Where I disagree is that it's good for niche sports. Until ESPN comes out with ESPN6, airing all sorts of niche sports including soccer, and the Bill Simmons Intern Contest this type of thing is nothing but bad imo. That's not to say that I don't enjoy The Life, or some of their other EOE shows, but all it does is take away from covering sports. That kinda pisses me off. Especially with the major networks deciding that sports isn't a profitable enough venture, ala the NBA on NBC. You're going to see more major sports, as we've seen with the NBA crowd out niche sports in an already dilluted time schedual. That's not to say that ESPN could stand to lose bass fishing, cheerleading, and strongest man competitions from 1978, but I just don't think it bodes very well for the quality and viewership of their network.

In regards to the Eisen thing, I know that they didn't reneaw his contract, didn't knwo that he wanted to be part of some new show. But also know that he just got married and I believe that had somethign to do with his or their decision.