Namoff---the end of Stokes?

[Sajuan]

Excellent last game and solid season so far by Bryan.

I wasn't high on him at the start of the season but he has become a very solid and reliable defender and can also provide decent midfield coverage when needed.

I am guessing that due to his development, we will see very little of David Stokes this year and Stokes will NOT be with DC next year.

This situation reminds me of how Mapp was treated and then used as trade bait.

With Reyes returning next year, I am not sure Hudson (if he is still around) will want a roster spot held by another defender. Especially one that is still 'developing' in his eyes.

I would just like to see what Stokes brings to the table before he's eating somewhere else.

Pure speculation but I can see it developing.

[Knave]

I've been sold on Namoff since I saw him play in the A-Leauge last year. Simply put, he didn't look like an A-League player. It was obvious he could more than hold his own on an MLS team and I'm happy to see he finally got his chance. His play has been one of the bright spots this season.

As for Stokes and Mapp, I actually think Mapp got more of a chance than Stokes. Hudson seems to have discounted Stokes from day one and he's apparently unwilling or unable to delevelop him at all. If anything, Stokes is like the bastard child of the team. Nobody wants to take responsibility for him and apparently nobody even wants to admit he exists. "I wish he'd just go away, let's banish him to the A-League."

And unlike Namoff, Stokes isn't even getting much time in the A-League. So I'm really not sure how much trade value he has.

[Lowecifer]

I was sold on Namoff after his rookie season. It was clear that he needed polishing, but that he had the tools to succeed. He had 7 assists in his rookie year, second only to Marco.

I thought it was a travesty that he wasn't more integral to last year's team, and that it's taken this long for him to establish himself in the team.

However, Stokes is a central defender and Namoff is a more natural midfield player than defender. It is to Brian's credit that he has done the work necessary to be an excellent MLS defender.

[Th4119]

Originally posted by Lowecifer
I was sold on Namoff after his rookie season. It was clear that he needed polishing, but that he had the tools to succeed. He had 7 assists in his rookie year, second only to Marco.

I thought it was a travesty that he wasn't more integral to last year's team, and that it's taken this long for him to establish himself in the team.

However, Stokes is a central defender and Namoff is a more natural midfield player than defender. It is to Brian's credit that he has done the work necessary to be an excellent MLS defender.

You always beat me to comments, Eric.

I second this, and still remember his rookie year when a bunch of those assists were in consecutive games.

[Richth76]

I don't think you can ever have too many central defenders...After Petke, Prideaux and Ivanov what do we have? One of them (Prideaux) is prone to cards, and Ivanov may also be prone to injury. I just wish the kid could get a run out. Ray wouldn't even play him against Spurs.

If we were never going to use him we should have traded the pick for a striker.

[CrazyDCFan]

I dunno, Stokes hasn't really gotten a chance to prove himself to us one bit. Noone really knows for sure how good or bad he would and will be in MLS. In my opinion, Stokes is still a viable defender until I am proven wrong.

[McOwen]

Sorry but this looks like the classic 2+2 = 99 1/2 Big Soccer discussion. Stokes hasnt been given much of a chance, but at the same time we havent needed him.

--Sure its odd that he hasnt been given at least something of chance, but Ray's dog house can be pretty fickle. Namoff and Prideaux were both in it LAST year and they seem to have recovered well enough to play a "few" minutes here. I am sure i read plenty of threads/comments here on just how both of these players "will not be back." Saying Stokes is gone simply because he hasnt factored into the teams equation (yet!) is just bad math.

[Sajuan]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richth76
[B]I don't think you can ever have too many central defenders...After Petke, Prideaux and Ivanov what do we have? One of them (Prideaux) is prone to cards, and Ivanov may also be prone to injury. I just wish the kid could get a run out. Ray wouldn't even play him against Spurs.

Don't forget that Nelsen does quite a good job there when called upon.

Perhaps Prideaux becomes the odd man out?

Maybe Stoke's potential and meager pay makes him a more 'value' player to the team since Brandon is paid more and most likely is better trade material.

[ignatz]

If Stokes is anything but a top-notch defender, waiting in the wings and developing behind a very good defense, then Hudson and Task should be fired at once.

This is a number 5 pick. We also had the number 1 pick. We were in more need of immediate production from our draft picks than any other team in the league. OK, Esky was hurt early on. But take a look at who got picked after Stokes.

[Richth76]

Originally posted by Sajuan
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Richth76
[B]I don't think you can ever have too many central defenders...After Petke, Prideaux and Ivanov what do we have? One of them (Prideaux) is prone to cards, and Ivanov may also be prone to injury. I just wish the kid could get a run out. Ray wouldn't even play him against Spurs.

Don't forget that Nelsen does quite a good job there when called upon.

Perhaps Prideaux becomes the odd man out?

Maybe Stoke's potential and meager pay makes him a more 'value' player to the team since Brandon is paid more and most likely is better trade material.

I didn't forget Nellie, but I think over the past several games he's shown how necessary he is in midfield. And shouldn't be, let's say, wasted on the backline when we have so much depth there already.

[Sundevil9]

Originally posted by McOwen
Sorry but this looks like the classic 2+2 = 99 1/2 Big Soccer discussion. Stokes hasnt been given much of a chance, but at the same time we havent needed him.

--Sure its odd that he hasnt been given at least something of chance, but Ray's dog house can be pretty fickle. Namoff and Prideaux were both in it LAST year and they seem to have recovered well enough to play a "few" minutes here. I am sure i read plenty of threads/comments here on just how both of these players "will not be back." Saying Stokes is gone simply because he hasnt factored into the teams equation (yet!) is just bad math.

Also, with such a feeble offense, Ray is burning all three field player subs on forwards and attackers. In a desperate attempt at getting a goal.

And when United does have the lead, a defensive midfielder is put in to try and hold it.

I think it's difficult to get a defender (a central one at that) 'garbage time'. It's been a while since United could cruise to a win, and the luxury of taking out a central defender just to get a kid some experience just is something this team cannot afford.

What we need is a friendly against Joe Public.

[Funkfoot]

Counting Namoff as a defender, when Reyes comes back you still have only 6 defenders. If they play a 4-4-2, that would seem like the right number to have on the roster. So Stokes would still be around when Reyes comes back. Getting some playing time is another thing altogether, though.

I, too, couldn't understand why Namoff couldn't get more PT last year after a great rookie season.

But Owen, when was Prideaux ever in the dog house? Didn't he start every game until the last one, when he finally had too many yellows?

[ursula]

Right, and if Reyes were healthy than we'd have seen little of Namoff this year. I do hope though that Stokes gets some chances the second half of the season if not on Wednesday.

[JoeW]

Look, unless Stokes is a wasted pick with really no potential at all, he's in great shape for next year's roster. Here's why:

--he'll be P-40. Thus, cap and roster exempt.

We can debate if he's a wasted pick, or if Hudson can't develop him or if it's just a case of being caught behind some good backliners on this team. But until he gets a few minutes, it's only speculation.

Besides, given our cap situation next year, I don't think we'll be in a situation to add more veteran defenders. Every P-40 player we have will be a big asset.

[jmsdoc]

I get this sinking feeling when I think of Nellie and next year.....I'm afraid he may be accross the pond. Then we may really need Namoff at d-mid but I bet we still won't see Stokes. I'll be surprised if he ever plays for Ray.

John

[McOwen]

Originally posted by Funkfoot
But Owen, when was Prideaux ever in the dog house? Didn't he start every game until the last one, when he finally had too many yellows?

Your right Funkfoot. What I meant was last years doghouse. Brandon rode the pine hard and was the subject of trade rumors etc. Namoff, as we all know was dumped down to Richmond (or one of those sorry a$$ A teams) --The fact that BOTH of thse guys are playing as well (and as often) after last year, shows that Stokes is far from finished.

[doctorjim]

I guess you have to give Ray some credit for finally fitting Namoff into the side. Nevertheless, the larger issue is that it took Ray a season and a half to figure it out. I am sure that Namoff benefited from playing with the Kickers, but he was a useful player under Rongen. In the long run, Namoff's best position is probably not outside fullback. Since Dema will be watching the San Jose game, I would like to see Namoff in Dema's central midfield role and Stokes as an outside fullback. (Spare the feedback that Stokes is not an outside fullback, please.) I think we might be pleasantly surprised by how well Namoff can play as an offensive midfielder.

Based on watching Stokes play for Virginia Beach as an outside back, I think that he has tremendous athletic ability and at least decent skills. He was a striker in high school after all. His biggest challenge initially in MLS will be decision making and that should be easier on the outside than in the middle of the defense. Eventually he has the size to play in the middle, but I would start him on the outside. He seems to have the speed to play there.

As for next year, DC will need all the good defenders it can muster. Nelsen is certainly a first rate player, but the others -- Petke, Ivanov and Prideaux -- have serious weaknesses or are inconsistent. Namoff is better suited to midfield in the long run. Reyes is a terrific athlete, or was, before his injury. His decision making and judgement leave something to be desired, however. His best moments last year came a man marker on one of the opposition's midfielders. He might do okay as an outside back in a 4-4-2, but last year, his forays forward and his poor positioning caused all sorts of problems in the back. It would be foolish to give up on Stokes in these circumstances and after only one year at that.

[Daniel le Rouge]

Frankly, I'd be tempted to give Carroll a runout before bumping Namoff up to midfield in favor of Stokes.

We know the defense is fairly settled in a 4-4-2 with (l to r across the back) Namoff-Prideaux-Petke-Ivanov, and Nelsen at D-Mid. Benny is playing well on the right, Santino can move around a bit--possibly bring in Carroll on the left, shift Stoitchkov to attacking mid and trot out 'Tino and Ali up top. Or, you can render the whole point moot by leaving 'Tino in midfield and starting Eskandarian.

Point is, there are options. Trotting out Stokes when he can't even buy a minute in the A-League is NOT the way to resurrect your season.

[Dave Brother]

I'm not gonna bad mouth Stokes cause lord knows the kid hasn't and probably will not see any serious minutes. What I will say is that Namoff is ( I am not trying to sound like Ray) a blue collar kinda guy, hard hat and all. The man comes into a match with some serious attitude (Olsen style) and the play to back it up. If Reyes hadn't been injured, Ray may have had him either in Richmond or on the tradeing block. I think the guy has earned his spot on this team.

Nuff said.

[doctorjim]

Perhaps a small point -- but arguing that someone (Stokes in this case) shouldn't start because he hasn't had any playing time gets more than a little circular. At some point, the coaching staff has to risk playing someone who has never played before.