Roman

[ComeOnChelsea]

Does Roman ever say anything to the media? It seems that there is never a comment or quote from him on anything?


If Roman sold the club in near future would Jose return?

[yasik19]

Does Roman ever say anything to the media? It seems that there is never a comment or quote from him on anything?

silence is golden. Plus Putin doesn't allow him to speak in public.

If Roman sold the club in near future would Jose return?

everything is possible, but don't bet on it.

[Andy Bennett]

silence is golden. Plus Putin doesn't allow him to speak in public.

What? Not even about the 4-3-3 vs. the 4-1-3-2?

Now that's what I call suspension of freedom of speech. ;)

[j.fisher]

If he's going to spin shit like Kenyon, I'd rather him stay quiet.

[Walter3000]

I bumped this for informational purposes and as to avoid starting another thread.

I used to be more up on the info surrounding how he made his billions, and the legalities and dealings with said acquisitions.

Instead of simply google and crapipedia, Id rather use some of the extensive knowledge of the posters here because admittedly I got in an argument about him being called a crook and swindler and felt somewhat/slightly uninformed.

[Yaroni]

this explains it all

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[Andy Bennett]

I bumped this for informational purposes and as to avoid starting another thread.

I used to be more up on the info surrounding how he made his billions, and the legalities and dealings with said acquisitions.

Instead of simply google and crapipedia, Id rather use some of the extensive knowledge of the posters here because admittedly I got in an argument about him being called a crook and swindler and felt somewhat/slightly uninformed.
We haven't discussed this for some time but, if memory serves, he borrowed money to buy shares in Russian oil, aluminium and airline companies at a time when they were being knocked out cheap to anyone with a few bob to spare. Essentially, the assets that should have gone to benefit the Russian people were sold at a knock down price because he had, or could borrow, the cash to buy them.

Now, essentially, the question is, do you blame the people that bought them cheap, (Abramovich, Berezovsky, etc.,), or do you blame the people that sold them, (Yeltsin, basically).

I'd suggest it makes more sense to blame the people that sold them myself but that raises one slight problem... the people who were 'advising' :rolleyes: Yeltsin were a load of, (usually American), arseholes that believed in laissez faire economics... 'shock therapy', as it became known.

The problem with that is that it's OK if it's applied with all the usual checks and balances we have in the west, (well, sort of... the current credit crunch shows it needs some controls even then), but it's not really appropriate to let things rip with no safeguards in place which is what happened in Russia.

For example, in the west shares are traded and the company maintains a central share registry to record who owns them. In Russia under Yeltsin, the companies didn't have to maintain a registry so when the state oil, aluminium, etc, companies were privatised and the public got a share in them, they simply had a piece of paper with no record of who or how many they had.

This, combined with the total collapse of the economy due to the half-baked laissez faire system, meant that people were selling their 'shares', (worthless pieces of paper as far as they were concerned), on the street corner to buy a loaf of bread or a packet.

In honesty, it's absolutely shocking what went on but, to repeat my question, whose fault is it??? I'd say Yeltsin and the arseholes that advised him, not the guys that profited from it.

However, if you really want to see what most soccer supporter's problem is with Abramovich you should watch the following...

1__5AYOkXKQ

:D

[revelationx]

I bumped this for informational purposes and as to avoid starting another thread.

I used to be more up on the info surrounding how he made his billions, and the legalities and dealings with said acquisitions.

Instead of simply google and crapipedia, Id rather use some of the extensive knowledge of the posters here because admittedly I got in an argument about him being called a crook and swindler and felt somewhat/slightly uninformed.

Can you give us your take on the situation?

I am currently reading Blowing Up Russia by Litvinenko which deals with this area and timeframe, albeit not directly about Roman Abramovich.

[Andy Bennett]

I seem to remember there was something about Abramovich lending the Kremlin money when they hadn't enough to pay the Russian civil service and when it came time to pay the money back, they didn't have it so Yeltsin allowed him to buy some assets cheap as well. Cant remember where I saw it now but, like I said, it all goes back to the total cock-up that was made of the Russian economy by western, (largely American), 'advisors'.

[Andy Bennett]

Can you give us your take on the situation?

I am currently reading Blowing Up Russia by Litvinenko which deals with this area and time frame, albeit not directly about Roman Abramovich.
One has to bear in mind that Litvinenko was bumped off by the KGB, (or their modern equivalent, the FSB), and Putin allowed Abramovich to maintain his position, essentially because Putin was helped into power by Yeltsin and Abramovich lent Yeltsin money.

The truth is that Abramovich has only maintained his position and wealth whilst he does what Putin wants. If he cuts up too rough things could turn sticky... and I don't mean for Putin. :D

[revelationx]

One has to bear in mind that Litvinenko was bumped off by the KGB, (or their modern equivalent, the FSB), and Putin allowed Abramovich to maintain his position, essentially because Putin was helped into power by Yeltsin and Abramovich lent Yeltsin money.

The truth is that Abramovich has only maintained his position and wealth whilst he does what Putin wants. If he cuts up too rough things could turn sticky... and I don't mean for Putin. :D

You have to remember Putin is KGB. Russia under Putin is not a true democracy as we know it in the West. Putin, the Russian security services and Gazprom are all closely connected.

Boris Berezovsky and his cronies (including Abramovich) helped install Putin and forced Yeltsin to resign in 1999. Abramovich helped inteview and select the cabinet members of Putin's first government. Putin's first act upon 'winning' the first election was pardoning Yeltsin and giving him immunity from prosecution. Berezovsky has since fallen out big time with Putin and is living in exile in England. Berozovsky now wants Putin out and financed the Orange revolution in the Ukraine in order to weaken Putin. The presence of Berezovsky in the UK has led to the diplomatic relationship between Russia and the UK to be badly damaged.

Putin is now in control of things in Russia and is no puppet of the Oligarchs. The show trial and imprisonment of Russia's richest man Mikhail Khordorkovsky, undertaken by Putin in order to steal his oil and gas fields, also sent out a message to all the other oligarchs. Stay onside or be destroyed. Note that American Presidential Candidate John McCain, after the verdict of the Khordorkovsky trial has declared his intent to kick Russia out of the G8. If McCain wins the American election then America and Putin's Russia will become hostile again.

And now Russia has just annexed South Ossetia! Talking about stirring the pot!

Where Abramovich fits into all this is not clear but he is close to Putin's camp and this is suspicious to say the least. One of the reasons he is a Billionaire is that Yeltsin needed cash and decided to privatize all the old energy sector industries which had been State controlled in the USSR. All Russians were given vouchers allowing them to purchase shares in various energy and manufacturing industries. However many poor people decided to cash in and sell them early for real money. These people accepted cash of less than face value in exchange for these vouchers. At that time in Russia it was difficult to make money and there were not many rich Russians around. The majority of Russian people with access to large funds of money at the time were either organised criminals, Communist Party officials or those with links to the KGB or related Security Services. Most of these vouchers were purchased by people who fell into these categories. I am not sure where Abramovich fits into things here. All of the Oligarchs made fortunes by purchasing or otherwise obtaining companies or parts of companies for a fraction of their actual value. Corruption was rife and these business transactions were not being conducted as we know it in the West.

The more I look into this area the more shocked and appalled I am. Putin got around the limitation of 2 terms as President by installing his close ally Medvedev to succeed him. Who did Medvedev select as his Prime Minister? Putin :rolleyes:

I am not saying Abramovich is dirty. I don't know enough about the particulars of his dealings to make any claim about him. It is clear though, that Abramovich rose in an environment when many who also came to power were corrupt and that Abramovich has associated with various people who are corrupt. His close links with Putin are also worrying when you scrutinise Putin and his reign. It is a suspicious scenario. People tend to instead look at what all this wealth has purchased - the various yachts, paintings and mansions, CFC itself - and be distracted by the bling and glamour.

[Andy Bennett]

Er... isn't that what I said? ;) :D

Anyhooooo... agree with most of that.

The only thing I would say is that some of this isn't too from the UK where Thatcher and the tories 'privatised' :rolleyes: the utilities, (at between a third and half their true worth), so that she could buy votes to get voted into power again during the 80's and 90's? The proceeds of this were handled by her friends in the city of London and they made hundreds of millions out of it. The tory leader of Westminster City Council, Dame Shirley Porter, gerrymandered on a large scale, building expensive homes for people who would vote tory whilst refusing permission for smaller cheaper homes, (particularly council rented properties), because people might vote labour.

Bush invaded Iraq, the US gained a strategic influence on how and where the oil would be sold, plus his friends in the oil and services industry have made billions out of it, a lot of it coming back to the Republican party in 2004 and now in 2008.

So I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it... I just think it's important not too get too sniffy about it.

[revelationx]

Er... isn't that what I said? ;)

Anyhooooo... agree with most of that.

The only thing I would say is that some of this isn't too from the UK where Thatcher and the tories 'privatised' :rolleyes: the utilities, (at between a third and half their true worth), so that she could buy votes to get voted into power again during the 80's and 90's? The proceeds of this were handled by her friends in the city of London and they made hundreds of millions out of it. The tory leader of Westminster City Council, Dame Shirley Porter, gerrymandered on a large scale, building expensive homes for people who would vote tory whilst refusing permission for smaller cheaper homes, (particularly council rented properties), because people might vote labour.

Bush invaded Iraq, the US gained a strategic influence on how and where the oil would be sold, plus his friends in the oil and services industry have made billions out of it, a lot of it coming back to the Republican party in 2004 and now in 2008.

So I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree with a lot of it... I just think it's important not too get too sniffy about it.

I would advise you to look at the situation closely. It is fascinating stuff. Scary too.:(

The situation is not comparable to the UK at all. Business is conducted under strict oversight, the Courts and legal system are robust, and the Press is open and critical of any percieved corruption. When incidents of corruption in the UK occur they are highlighted as scandals if discovered. Most of our business leaders are legitimate businessmen. They are hardly gangsters. There exist exceptions but the UK business environment is regulated is generally free from corruption. Gordon Brown is many things but a journalist can criticise him without expecting his chances of being murdered greatly increasing.

[Andy Bennett]

The situation is not comparable to the UK at all. Business is conducted under strict oversight...
Uh huh! Er, rev old mate... bear in mind that I've been in business for more than 35 years. The 'oversight' is not quite as strict as you think.

Anyway, we're getting off topic, (this thread has a topic??? :D), which is, how culpable is Abramovich in all this. I'd say, (and you apparently agree), it's very difficult to say. Not much of an answer but it's probably all the more reliable because of it.

[revelationx]

Uh huh! Er, rev old mate... bear in mind that I've been in business for more than 35 years. The 'oversight' is not quite as strict as you think.

Anyway, we're getting off topic, (this thread has a topic??? :D), which is, how culpable is Abramovich in all this. I'd say, (and you apparently agree), it's very difficult to say. Not much of an answer but it's probably all the more reliable because of it.

Well I am reluctant to continue this discussion with someone who is obviously a gangster businessman. :rolleyes: Plus it is going off-topic and into NSR areas.

[Andy Bennett]

Well I am reluctant to continue this discussion with someone who is obviously a gangster businessman. :rolleyes: Plus it is going off-topic and into NSR areas.
I'm willing to continue it but you better be warned, I know people who know people who know people... if you know what I mean ;) :D

[revelationx]

I'm willing to continue it but you better be warned, I know people who know people who know people... if you know what I mean ;) :D

I know you're a badass. No need to send 'round the boys to prove it. :D