Manchester United Goalscorers and Assisters 07/08 [R]

[alincoln]

Maybe you should just add another category - Official PL Assists.

That way the assist conservatives and liberals can both be happy.

[Vermont Red]

Maybe you should just add another category - Official PL Assists.

That way the assist conservatives and liberals can both be happy.

Maybe those who are protesting should start their own thread. Then they can all marvel together at the inflated stats.

[benni...]

You cannot deny that without the pass, there is no goal. But hey, this is DS' thread so...

[Vermont Red]

You cannot deny that without the pass, there is no goal. But hey, this is DS' thread so...

But where does it stop? Without the tackle there is no winning the ball, which leads to a pass, to another pass, to another pass to another pass, to a shot, to a goal. Should we keep track of tackles that lead to goals, and assign three secondary assists?

[benni...]

The tackle should get credit (but not as an assist).

So let me ask, I remember us playing at Anfield in Ruud's last season (in the league we drew 0-0). There was one pass Rio played to Ruud who still had the chip the keeper from a difficult angle. Of course he missed it, but had he scored would that be an assist considering Ruud still had a lot of work to do before he could score?

[Vermont Red]

So let me ask, I remember us playing at Anfield in Ruud's last season (in the league we drew 0-0). There was one pass Rio played to Ruud who still had the chip the keeper from a difficult angle. Of course he missed it, but had he scored would that be an assist considering Ruud still had a lot of work to do before he could score?

Did he hit it first time? Did the pass open up the defense or was it just a normal pass from which Van Nistelrooy conjured some magic?

[benni...]

To score that goal, Ruud would have had to conjure up some magic, and the pass did open up the defense, just like Anderson's pass.

[alincoln]

It is certainly a slippery slope . . . one which will likely plunge this world into chaos if the sanctity of the direct assist is not vigilantly defended at all costs

[Vermont Red]

To score that goal, Ruud would have had to conjure up some magic, and the pass did open up the defense, just like Anderson's pass.

I'd have to see it. If Van Nistelrooy hit it first time, then I'd give the assist. If he took some touches to create some space, then probably not, but I'm just speculating.

Anderson doesn't deserve an assist, though.

[JAKE SPEED]

Meaningless debate over arbitrary statistic.

[benni...]

You dont have to read it. You can put me on ignore if you like.

[israbeckham]

I think Anderson should get an assist but lets just drop it, and hope he has move statistics on this thread.

[JAKE SPEED]

The problem is with the statistic itself. As alluded to previously in this thread, there is no clear cut definition of what an assist exactly is. How is taking two touches off a brilliant through ball, rounding the keeper, and slotting home any more "work" for the goal scorer than a scissor kick hit first time from the top of the box from a marginal cross?

Does a shot palmed into the path of an awaiting poacher count as an assist for the initial shooter? Some sites tabulate it as such.

There is no denying that its important to keep track of telling balls that lead to chances and conversions, but the assist category doesn't do justice to the game.

[Vermont Red]

Meaningless debate over arbitrary statistic.

Ahem.

[Dark Savante]

Maybe you should just add another category - Official PL Assists.

That way the assist conservatives and liberals can both be happy.
Heheh, assist liberals and conservatives?

Seriously?

You cannot deny that without the pass, there is no goal. But hey, this is DS' thread so...
Actually, it's not my thread per se, it's merely a statiscal represenatation of our season. The argument here is whever it's a subjective viewpoint I hold (or anyone who can edit the opening post) It's fairly simple what a direct assist is. This grey area, isn't actually a grey area at all.

People either want a second type of assist added or they don't. Direct assists don't need expanding upon.

It is certainly a slippery slope . . . one which will likely plunge this world into chaos if the sanctity of the direct assist is not vigilantly defended at all costs
Don't forget the time-line continuum, if we're being specific.

Meanwhile, the thread won't be convoluted by bogus stats... as long as I'm alive to defend it. Dangnabbit!

The problem is with the statistic itself. As alluded to previously in this thread, there is no clear cut definition of what an assist exactly is. How is taking two touches off a brilliant through ball, rounding the keeper, and slotting home any more "work" for the goal scorer than a scissor kick hit first time from the top of the box from a marginal cross?

Does a shot palmed into the path of an awaiting poacher count as an assist for the initial shooter? Some sites tabulate it as such.

There is no denying that its important to keep track of telling balls that lead to chances and conversions, but the assist category doesn't do justice to the game.

The flaw in your argument is that a direct conversion can be just as brilliant as an individual goal. They are both 'work' but you've taken it out of context and are being rather disingenuous, I would suspect.

A direct assist has to have no interruption from passer to reciever, if a shot is palmed by a keeper then he has obviously interfered with this, if a shot hits a crossbar for another player to tap-in, it's an assist.

Once again, as far as I'm concerned, the discussion is about whether to add another category to what's already there. The 'assist category' is obviously something you take or you leave, but I'll make sure ours is at least done right and isn't full of bogus and inflated numbers. For something you consider arbitrary, you're certainly making quite a fuss..

[J'can]

I am amazed at the things we are vehemently about (which means that i am amazed at myself cause here goes): if I take a shot and the keeper spills it, that has to be an assist. That to me is no different than the ball coming back off the bar or the uproght.

And, let's say that Ronaldo (Brazilian) in his hey day is standing in his half of the center circle. He is surrounded by three defenders and some sweet pass from a silky midfield is played in behind the defense. He turns chases is outpaces everyone gets to the keeper rounds him and scores. Now he dribble that ball six or seven times. If I gave him that pass is that not a direct assist?

And I make a pass and it deflects slightly off the defender trhough to my forward who then scores is that not an assist for me despite the slight deflection?

isolating direct assist from other assist under the assumption that direct assist is an uninteruppted pass while the scorer takes a limited amount of touches is ludicrous. if the scorer takes an extra touch the assister shouldnt be penalized especially if that is what he intended the scorer to do in th first place......... :D

[Vermont Red]

There's no limit in the number of touches a player can take. Other than the Anderson non-assist (which is clear-cut), are there any others this season that posters have an issue with.

[haven]

Once again, as far as I'm concerned, the discussion is about whether to add another category to what's already there. The 'assist category' is obviously something you take or you leave, but I'll make sure ours is at least done right and isn't full of bogus and inflated numbers. For something you consider arbitrary, you're certainly making quite a fuss..

I'd argue that whether a number is meaningful is just as important as whether it is "inflated" or unduly conservative. Otherwise, you end up with a distinction without value.

[Vermont Red]

"Distinction without value." Were you describing your post?

[Joelzinho]

"Distinction without value." Were you describing your post?

Ouch.