Manchester United Goalscorers and Assisters 07/08 [R]

[Amdrag]

Oh I see now. As to the assist all have been deserved so far from what I have seen. The only one I can't remember is Tevez's assist so that is a question. The other four though are all do.

Edit: Yeah Tevez's counts. Put the ball nicely on for Scholes to kill it.

[Devil500]

Rooney- 1 in CL. :D

[Joelzinho]

Rooney- 1 in CL. :D

and give an Assist for Nani! :)

[Dark Savante]

Sheesh.. actually had some work today updating it this time!

Looking better now.

[Amdrag]

Shouldn't Anderson get an assist today?

[Dark Savante]

Shouldn't Anderson get an assist today?

No. Tevez took on another man and then put the ball away after the pass, if he'd hit it on the first or second touch, yes, but he had a lot of work to do after the ball was played.

Unfortunately, it's those deep-lying passes that will be lost over a season. Carrick, Rio, Scholes and Anderson will probably be more directly affected by that than anyone else.

[Charleysurf]

No. Tevez took on another man and then put the ball away after the pass, if he'd hit it on the first or second touch, yes, but he had a lot of work to do after the ball was played.

Unfortunately, it's those deep-lying passes that will be lost over a season. Carrick, Rio, Scholes and Anderson will probably be more directly affected by that than anyone else.

Come on, if it's an assist in the official PL stats then it should be an assist in this thread.

Basically you're saying that if Tevez shot for goal as soon as he received the ball and scored, then Anderson would be credited with the assist. But as Tevez goes on to beat a player and then score then Anderson does not get the assist? It sounds way too arbitrary to me.

[Sapphire]

Anderson made a really nice pass to Tevez, who then created that goal single-handedly once he had the ball. No assist.

[Amdrag]

No. Tevez took on another man and then put the ball away after the pass, if he'd hit it on the first or second touch, yes, but he had a lot of work to do after the ball was played.

Unfortunately, it's those deep-lying passes that will be lost over a season. Carrick, Rio, Scholes and Anderson will probably be more directly affected by that than anyone else.

I understand now. I missed the actual build up for the goal as I was about 20 seconds behind and to busy reading the post about it. :o

[Joelzinho]

Meh....Without that pass the goal doesn't happen. I give it an assist.

[433tom]

Anderson was credited with the assist in the Official Premiere League Stats. I would think that should be the criteria we use. IMO.

[Joelzinho]

Anderson was credited with the assist in the Official Premiere League Stats. I would think that should be the criteria we use. IMO.

He really should be given then assist.

[topnoevili]

Anyone who saw the game knows that Anderson had a great game and we know that whether or not DS gives an assist for that play... I don't really see why anyone needs to see the number chalked up in this thread... DS said earlier that he would watch and credit assists only for passes that directly lead to a goal...

"Sadly the visionary long ball that opens up the field and is the basic reason for some goals isn't counted."

No need to beg for the assists as long as DS is consistent in his judgement... The fact that it won't be on this list takes nothing away from the pass or the performance...

[Mac_Howard]

Should we really deny a player an assist merely because the finisher fluffs the finish ;)

[Dark Savante]

No chance of that being credited as a direct assist. If the official premier league people have registered it as such it means they don't have a clue what a direct assist is and it would throw into question the validity of all the assist stats on their site. I have suspected that's how Cesc has such inflated assist numbers for this season, but without seeing all his passes and the subsequent conversions, thought I'd keep my mouth shut on the issue.

By the time Tevez put the ball away, the pass to him had long since gone. He took 4 or 5 touches, which included beating a centre-back and almost rounding the keeper to gain position for the shot, all of which was his own doing and had nothing much to do with the pass made to him - the pass was brilliant, but Tevez had a lot of work to do after it.


If people want that deep-lying-secondary assist stat up that includes passes like that, make it known. But that's no direct assist and nothing like that will be counted all season long as a direct assist.

[433tom]

No chance of that being credited as a direct assist. If the official premier league people have registered it as such it means they don't have a clue what a direct assist is and it would throw into question the validity of all the assist stats on their site. I have suspected that's how Cesc has such inflated assist numbers for this season, but without seeing all his passes and the subsequent conversions, thought I'd keep my mouth shut on the issue.

By the time Tevez put the ball away, the pass to him had long since gone. He took 4 or 5 touches, which included beating a centre-back and almost rounding the keeper to gain position for the shot, all of which was his own doing and had nothing much to do with the pass made to him - the pass was brilliant, but Tevez had a lot of work to do after it.


If people want that deep-lying-secondary assist stat up that includes passes like that, make it known. But that's no direct assist and nothing like that will be counted all season long as a direct assist.

It just depends upon the criteria used. I think its a bit more qualitative in the official stats. Yes he cut back and dribbled across the box, but it was Anderson's pass that put him through behind the defenders which set up his cut back across the goal. Without that pass, there is no goal.

And BTW.. Most leagues apply some qualitative assessment of the play to determine if the assist is given. I'm not saying thats right or wrong. Just saying thats the way it is.

Now if it was Rooney, he would have shot off the one touch and we would not even be having this discussion. :)

[haven]

An assist is typically not the most meaningful stat anyway. I actually think the best brightline is probably "the pass before the shot on goal," provided there's not an intervening deflection, etc., unless the goal scorer dribbles for 35 yards or something. That gives players assists when the goal scorer really creates the opportunity - but it eliminates the gray area and eliminates subjectivity.

Besides, the assist is a garbage stat anyway.

[benni...]

have suspected that's how Cesc has such inflated assist numbers for this season

Yup, I think its confirmed now.

[Dark Savante]

It just depends upon the criteria used. I think its a bit more qualitative in the official stats. Yes he cut back and dribbled across the box, but it was Anderson's pass that put him through behind the defenders which set up his cut back across the goal. Without that pass, there is no goal.

And BTW.. Most leagues apply some qualitative assessment of the play to determine if the assist is given. I'm not saying thats right or wrong. Just saying thats the way it is.

Now if it was Rooney, he would have shot off the one touch and we would not even be having this discussion. :)
I think the criteria is clearly stated - if Tevez had hit that first time or took a touch to control it before burying it, it's clearly a direct assist. But he took 4-5 touches including beating a man on his inside, outsmarting a keeper and then burying the ball in the bottom left corner on his left foot (not even the foot he recieved the ball on!!

If any site says that's a direct assist, I'd no longer use them as a reference point for assist stats.

An assist is typically not the most meaningful stat anyway. I actually think the best brightline is probably "the pass before the shot on goal," provided there's not an intervening deflection, etc., unless the goal scorer dribbles for 35 yards or something. That gives players assists when the goal scorer really creates the opportunity - but it eliminates the gray area and eliminates subjectivity.

Besides, the assist is a garbage stat anyway.

But that's not the same as a direct assist. A direct assist leads to an instant conversion. That's not subjective - a cross; a header; a goal. A lay-off; a shot; a goal. Touch after touch upon reception of a ball is not the same thing at all, no matter how exquisite the pass that played the man in.

The last pass before the goal would lead to some grotesquely over-inflated stats and make assists the sham, you're suggesting they are.

I personally believe a direct assist is of just as much importance as the conversion to goal. Chicken and the egg, without one there wouldn't be the other, so the assister should be accredited where due.

I have been surprised by the backlash against assisters, tbh. The board is only interested in the glory of the goals!! :)

Yup, I think its confirmed now.

Well, it's ridiculous to give a direct assist after the convertor does so much more work after the pass, if that's how Cesc's stats have come about, that's a sham.

[Vermont Red]

I am in complete support of DS's stance on this, as it is the same as my own. Where does the assist madness end if you give credit to Anderson for that pass? Do we give a second assist to Pique for his ball to release Rooney before he set up Ronaldo?

Assists are given out too freely and for our purposes on here we should limit it as DS has done. Otherwise, why even bother keeping track of this? We don't need to inflate the stats of our players. We're not Arsenal, for crying out loud.