Length of scrimmage during practice

[goru_no_ura]

My teams, U8 and U9 practice two hours, twice a week.

I used to run them thru various drills, and scrimmage the last 30 minutes.

In the last month and a half I have experimented with another system: one hour of very intense footwork-related exercises (to make sure that everybody touches the ball as much as possible); 30 minutes of "controlled scrimmage" (where I interrupt, explain, and in praticular make sure that the player without the ball as well keep moving); and 30 minutes of free scrimmage without coaching interference.

It is amazing how some player have improved and gained confidence, and how they are figuring out a lot of things by themselves. They became so self-responsible, that before the games, they can go through their 20 minutes of running, stretching and warm-up without me coaching them.

The results in the games have been amazing as well. Both teams were at the bottom of the league at the end of last season, but as I took them and changed the coaching pattern, we have won a total of 4 games out of the first 5 (Lost one to the second best team in the state).

I am wondering if in the US we are in general "overcoaching" the kids. After all, many professional players learned their early soccer skill by playing in the street and at public parks; without coaches, referees, goals and drills.

Perhaps, at this age, a 50-50 balance of drill-scrimmage is good?

Any opinion in merit?

[BigGuy]

My teams, U8 and U9 practice two hours, twice a week.

I used to run them thru various drills, and scrimmage the last 30 minutes.

In the last month and a half I have experimented with another system: one hour of very intense footwork-related exercises (to make sure that everybody touches the ball as much as possible); 30 minutes of "controlled scrimmage" (where I interrupt, explain, and in praticular make sure that the player without the ball as well keep moving); and 30 minutes of free scrimmage without coaching interference.

It is amazing how some player have improved and gained confidence, and how they are figuring out a lot of things by themselves. They became so self-responsible, that before the games, they can go through their 20 minutes of running, stretching and warm-up without me coaching them.

The results in the games have been amazing as well. Both teams were at the bottom of the league at the end of last season, but as I took them and changed the coaching pattern, we have won a total of 4 games out of the first 5 (Lost one to the second best team in the state).

I am wondering if in the US we are in general "overcoaching" the kids. After all, many professional players learned their early soccer skill by playing in the street and at public parks; without coaches, referees, goals and drills.

Perhaps, at this age, a 50-50 balance of drill-scrimmage is good?

Any opinion in merit?

How long a scrimmage depends on the age. A scrimmage should give them a chance to work on some of things you did in practice and in the last practice before that, in a game like situation that is a very good thing. You make coaching points as you see them. Mistakes in a scrimmage is a good thing part of the learning process they have to know that it is okay to make mistakes because you learn from your mistakes..

I use it for that and for fitness especially after a strenous practice. Then of cource you always have a cool down at the end.

[Val1]

Well, you didn't ask, but I'll go on record as saying that a 2 hour practice is too long for U8s and U9s. Since I'm not organized enough for 1 hour practices at that age, I do 1 hour 15 minutes and maybe by the time they are U11/U12 will I increase to 1.5 hours. I don't think I would 2 hour practices before high school. For what it is worth, the NSCAA recommends that practice be as long as your game time, so if your kids are playing a 40 minute game, that is how long your practice should be. Since that does not include stretching, and at younger ages, you have to lead them in that, you can have hour long practices and still be in the general guideline.

As to your overall percentage of time spent on scrimmaging, that looks good to me. Of my 75 minute practice, probably 15 minutes is spent in free play.

[ranova]

Have to say that I agree that 2 hours seems too long a practice session for that age. If it were me I would design a 1 hour practice session and follow up with 1 hour of timed small sided games such as 3v3 with small goals. Control the work rate by either how many players sit out versus play at the same time or by having rest periods in between games. Mix up the teams between games to avoid lopsided contests. Mimic school yard soccer. Let the kids play. No teaching points. Keeping the "practice" consolidated makes it easier for kids to pick up all the training if they can't stay for the entire two hours.

One advantage of the two segment training plan is that the second segment would use the same format everytime. Parents and kids would be used to it. And an assistant or parent could run that type of session in your absence.

[goru_no_ura]

On practice length:

- When I was a boy, in Italy, we played soccer 3-4 hours every day. Of course playing is different from practicing, to a certain extent; however, before the gameboys and the Pokemons, kids used to spend entire days outside, at full power. And I don't remember anybody collapsing.

- Also, when my son was a U8 in Japan, for one year, in 2005, practices were nearly 3 hours long, sometimes in the mud, or in the snow, or in e choking heat. Kids just loved it, and they have awesome junior players there.

- Here in the US, even when my practice runs long, say 130-140 minutes, the kids want to play more. It's getting darker soon now, so parents point their headlights toward the park, and we can go on until we drop.

- The point is: there is certainly a limit to how many minutes a 8yo kid can keep focused and can take instruction. That is why I am lowering the "coaching" load. But regarding the time a kid can play at the park (soccer, or any other game/sport), two or three hours, even four is no problem, I believe. At least, it was when I was a kid, some 30 years ago.

[ALEX408]

On practice length:

- When I was a boy, in Italy, we played soccer 3-4 hours every day. Of course playing is different from practicing, to a certain extent; however, before the gameboys and the Pokemons, kids used to spend entire days outside, at full power. And I don't remember anybody collapsing.

- Also, when my son was a U8 in Japan, for one year, in 2005, practices were nearly 3 hours long, sometimes in the mud, or in the snow, or in e choking heat. Kids just loved it, and they have awesome junior players there.

- Here in the US, even when my practice runs long, say 130-140 minutes, the kids want to play more. It's getting darker soon now, so parents point their headlights toward the park, and we can go on until we drop.

- The point is: there is certainly a limit to how many minutes a 8yo kid can keep focused and can take instruction. That is why I am lowering the "coaching" load. But regarding the time a kid can play at the park (soccer, or any other game/sport), two or three hours, even four is no problem, I believe. At least, it was when I was a kid, some 30 years ago.

We aren't talking about your background experience nor your son. We are talking about U7 and U8 KIDS. 2 hours for U7 and U8 is extreme. Also the parents would think it is extreme as well. The parents do want their kids back too. 1 hour of practice time is just perfect if not pushing it for U7 and U8. The U12-14 practice for about 1 and 1/2 max, and U16 plays about 2 hours. Also kids have homework and school work and life, so understand that too.

[ALEX408]

How long a scrimmage depends on the age. A scrimmage should give them a chance to work on some of things you did in practice and in the last practice before that, in a game like situation that is a very good thing. You make coaching points as you see them. Mistakes in a scrimmage is a good thing part of the learning process they have to know that it is okay to make mistakes because you learn from your mistakes..

I use it for that and for fitness especially after a strenous practice. Then of cource you always have a cool down at the end.

I don't understand, why do you coaches have a "cool down" session? That is the biggest waste of time, as in a players perspective. Sprint and back, jog, etc. You're wasting your time as a coach as well...

[BigGuy]

I don't understand, why do you coaches have a "cool down" session? That is the biggest waste of time, as in a players perspective. Sprint and back, jog, etc. You're wasting your time as a coach as well...

The technical reasons for the cool down, and it is not a waste of time for the player.

During exercise, primarily cardiovascular exercise, the blood is
diverted from the internal organs to the working muscles. The
alternative contraction and relaxation of these muscles during exercise
is what promotes the return of the blood to the heart. If you simply
stop exercising, there is a tendency for this large volume of blood to
simply pool in the extremities. With a reduced return of blood to the
heart, the heart may not be able to pump sufficient blood to the brain,
and dizziness or fainting may result. By continuing to exercise, albeit
at a lower intensity, during the cooldown, the blood will eventually be
diverted away from the extremities and back to the viscera and other
internal organs.

While fainting may seem to be an unlikely I have seen this happen.
-------------------------
Another reason to perform a cooldown is that muscle and blood lactic
acid levles decrease more rapidly during execise-recovery than during a
rest-recovery. Therefore, a cool down would promote faster recovery from
the fatigue of exercise.
-----------------
Another reason for Cool-down the entire concept of actions after exercise, is to maintain or increase flexibility. After hard
exercise, an athletes' range of motion will be less after recovery. Stretching after these hard work-outs keep the athletes'
flexibility up in their normal ranges. Also, the best time for connective tissue
range of motion increase from stretching is when the muscle and surrounding
tissues are most warm.

[goru_no_ura]

We aren't talking about your background experience nor your son.

I have played soccer and futsal as an amateur for all my life, basically 35 years. I love the game and I am a big fan as well (especially of Japanese soccer). I don't coach my son (U10) anymore. He is in a very hard-core club, practices 4 times per week and usually plays 2 games on Sunday and AYSO on Saturday. He eats, studies and goes to the toilet bowl while kicking around a ball. He has no videogames, but reads a lots of books. he is a very good scholar and the class' student council.

We are talking about U7 and U8 KIDS. 2 hours for U7 and U8 is extreme.

No, not at all. Two hours of regimented, demanding practice (or study...!!) is surely too much, but two hours of running and having fun at the park is actually much less (half?) of the time kids spend playing soccer and other outdoor activities in countries such as Mexico, Brazil, Morocco, Thailand, etc. As said, I played all day, since I was 5 and so, and at 39 I have no fat, a very healthy body and I can play two 90 minutes games on the same day. Also, from socecr I ahve learned teamwork and effort, that helps me in the rest of my life...

Also the parents would think it is extreme as well. The parents do want their kids back too.

Parents sit by the field, chit-chat, cool down after work and love their kids doing a lot of sport that makes them hungry and put them to sleep early. If they wouldn't, they won't take the kids.

1 hour of practice time is just perfect if not pushing it for U7 and U8.

IMHO, U7/U8 should NEVER be pushed. I push only the very competitive players, who usually practice with the U9s only. "Push" should moderately start at U10, but then again is a case-by-case. Some kids need it, otehr react negatively to it.

The U12-14 practice for about 1 and 1/2 max, and U16 plays about 2 hours.

These are demanding practices. U8, for the most play around and run a lot. No stress on the muscles or the minds...

Also kids have homework and school work and life, so understand that too.

Homework in a "civilized" school should never be more than 10m x grade. Ergo, in second grade, 20 minutes. This is not my opinion, but that of some of my university colleagues who work in education.

What do you mean with "Also kids...have a life" ??

What is better than playing a sport together with their friends at a park? Do you think they're forced to play soccer? If they'd prefer TV or other stuff, they would be at home, but luckily there still are kids who prefer open air and running rather than passively sitting on a sofa with Coke and a remote control! :)

[goru_no_ura]

The technical reasons for the cool down, and it is not a waste of time for the player.

During exercise, primarily cardiovascular exercise, the blood is
diverted from the internal organs to the working muscles. The
alternative contraction and relaxation of these muscles during exercise
is what promotes the return of the blood to the heart. If you simply
stop exercising, there is a tendency for this large volume of blood to
simply pool in the extremities. With a reduced return of blood to the
heart, the heart may not be able to pump sufficient blood to the brain,
and dizziness or fainting may result. By continuing to exercise, albeit
at a lower intensity, during the cooldown, the blood will eventually be
diverted away from the extremities and back to the viscera and other
internal organs.

While fainting may seem to be an unlikely I have seen this happen.
-------------------------
Another reason to perform a cooldown is that muscle and blood lactic
acid levles decrease more rapidly during execise-recovery than during a
rest-recovery. Therefore, a cool down would promote faster recovery from
the fatigue of exercise.
-----------------
Another reason for Cool-down the entire concept of actions after exercise, is to maintain or increase flexibility. After hard
exercise, an athletes' range of motion will be less after recovery. Stretching after these hard work-outs keep the athletes'
flexibility up in their normal ranges. Also, the best time for connective tissue
range of motion increase from stretching is when the muscle and surrounding
tissues are most warm.

I agree, and I also think it is a good moment to wrap up what has been learned while also cooling down mentally.

[Twenty26Six]

Random thoughts...

* Two hours is a long time, regardless of their level of interest. However, it seems like you're doing a lot of individual skills work that doesn't get done at home.

* In that case, an hour and a half seems reasonable. As long as the kids enjoy it.

* To get from 2 hours to 75-90m, you could cut the "controlled scrimmage" portion of your practice. Interrupting to artificially kick-start off-the-ball movement doesn't seem necessary at this age. You could accomplish this by a) making the games smaller in size and numbers or b) creating exercises where players move before and after receiving passes.

** I'd probably go to...
10-15m - Skill work
30m of "practice work" - in 2, 15m activities.
15-20m of closely watched scrimmage time, looking for ONE specific coaching point.
15-20m of them playing without interruption.

That's 70-85m, and probably the longest I would ever go.

[goru_no_ura]

I'd reduce practice time when I'll see tired, bored or demotivated kids.

So far, they always want to play more and more, and this is going on for months now.

That is why we extended to 2hrs from 90m.

The kids are also getting so much better. Today we won the fourth in a row, playing beautiful. We scored a goal 20 seconds into the game after 6 passes from kick-off... I was speechless. For the rest of the game, I barely uttered a word, and we won 6-1.

Practice makes you better.
No substitution for that.

[Twenty26Six]

Practice makes you better.
No substitution for that.

That reasoning is similar to only drinking when you're thirsty. If you wait until the symptoms exist, you're already dehydrated.

Just keep in mind that you're operating within a group that is exhibiting abnormal behavior in terms of practice endurance.

[saabrian]

Two hours seems like a pretty long practice for U8s and U9s. But otherwise, I think you have the proportions down very well. I like the emphasis on individual ballwork.

[KevTheGooner]

I wonder if the practice length guidelines are intended to reflect psychological limitations and not physical ones? I would agree with both sides of the "practice length" argument as a result. A practice with a big coaching load would tax the psyche of many young players. But a more open, free practice, with motiviated kids who enjoy each others company could surely last for a couple hours without physically harming them?

I agree that parents can only take so much, however.

I need to increase some of my players' (U10 girls) stamina, actually. We have a small team (don't get me started on why that is) and our last game we had our best performance of the season....for 3/4 of the game. The last 1/4 we wilted and conceded three late goals. Makes me wish I would have had longer practices earlier in the season.

[HouseHead78]

rather than passively sitting on a sofa with Coke and a remote control! :)

Kids are doing coke these days? Man times have changed! :D

[Th4119]

If the kids are having fun and are mentally engaged, why is two hours too long? I used to spend 8-10 hours outside during the summer between playing soccer, basketball, and football with friends and riding my bike through the neighborhood.

[Twenty26Six]

If the kids are having fun and are mentally engaged, why is two hours too long? I used to spend 8-10 hours outside during the summer between playing soccer, basketball, and football with friends and riding my bike through the neighborhood.

Depends on whether or not you think that practices should be more concentrated and physically exhausting than normal playtime.

[Th4119]

Depends on whether or not you think that practices should be more concentrated and physically exhausting than normal playtime.

Obviously it's apples and oranges but I think people are jumping to conclusions here about an extra 30 minutes twice a week.

[goru_no_ura]

If the kids are having fun and are mentally engaged, why is two hours too long? I used to spend 8-10 hours outside during the summer between playing soccer, basketball, and football with friends and riding my bike through the neighborhood.

Exactly.

I mean, my 9yo son has school from 8am to 2:15pm, plus some 1 to 2 hrs of homework and he also studies Japanese with mom.

Total: 7 to 9 hours of study, daily, as a 4th grader.

Now, you tell me he can't play soccer at the park the other 2-3 hours??

Also, I miss where soccer for U8-U10 is mentally tiring... Of course we might give some tactical advice at the park, but clearly it is a matter of a few minutes maximum. 90%+ is playing...